Author Topic: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments  (Read 12600 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #90 on: December 07, 2012, 03:04:23 PM »
Guru Vachaka Kovai speaks of the Power of the Self.

Bhagavan 20: You should affirm that whoever has become a knower of the Self by becoming absorbed in being-
consciousness, having conquered the senses through Jnana, is himself the fire of Jnana. He is the wielder of the
thuynderbolt of Jnana. (like Indra). He is Kalakala (Siva as the slayer of Yama). He is the hero who slew the death
itself.

GVK 1030:  He who possesses the might of Jnana has, through the  Self abidance in which the Self irrepressibly shines
forth, entirely eliminated  the five senses. It is he alone who wields that thunderbolt of Jnana with which he slew relentless
Yama. He is the sun of Jnana, free of manifestation of envy (and other five inner enemies).

1031. The ego that has the unrivaled power of creating and ruling all the universes through the six senses is the cruel demon
Surapadman*. He who, rising angrily, chases the ego back into the Heat, without letting it run out, and who destroys it completely
there, is Lord Kumaran**, who rejoices in unsurpassed bliss.             

* the demon-villain of Kandha Puranam.

** Lord Muruga, son of Siva.

(tr. David Godman and Ors.)

Arunachala Siva.   

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2012, 08:18:40 PM »
Quote
Sri Atmavichar,

This will of interest to you in the same line of post as yours as above:

D.   How is the spiritual uplift of the people to be
      effected? What are the instructions to be given them?

M. They differ according to the temperaments of the individuals and
     according to the spiritual ripeness of their minds. There cannot be
     any instruction en masse.

(Talks)
Thanks Nagaraj .
Bhagwan Ramana has only echoed what I said in the other thread . Only a True Master can guide a student properly and in the absence of a Guru , one has to rely on Sastras for the same . Problem today is ours is now a Secular Democracy and hence most of the rules of Sastras are very difficult to be followed and we can do it only at a symbolic level .
I had a discussion about this with Swami Paramarthananda and he said no doubt following Sastras is quite difficult in current times and hence the next best thing is to follow the rules of some Sattvic Spiritual Organizations like Chinmaya , Sivananda , Ramakrishna , Ramana etc to maintain a basic spiritual life that helps you develop lot of sattva , bhakti and a respect for our  Vedic culture and tradition .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2012, 08:28:03 PM »
Quote
Have you removed your own ‘spiritual drowsiness?’ The force
which is set up to remove your own ‘drowsiness’ will also operate
in other centres. There is the will-power with which you can act
on others. But it is on a lower plane and not desirable. Take care
of yourself first.


(Talks)

Two gentlemen from Ambala (the Punjab) had been here for a few
weeks. Just before taking leave of Sri Bhagavan one of them asked
how he should remove the spiritual drowsiness of his friends or of
other people in general.

This is again a very powerful pointer . At first it might look very selfish in just doing one's own spiritual sadhana in solitude but according to many Saints like Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda , the greatest service a person can render the whole world is one's own  self realization . They may  be sitting in some cave alone and many may consider them lazy and unproductive people because they are not actively running , doing service etc but their help is invisible . Classic Example is the lives of Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda and Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa .
« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 09:55:34 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2012, 09:27:22 PM »
Atmavichar,

Quote
"Classic Example is the lives of Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda and Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa "

Swami sivananda is a Great soul who excelled in service to others.This was part and parcel of his life even when he served as a Doctor before taking up intense sadhana in Rishikesh.He continued this service during his sadhana period as well.Truly a Mahatma,utterly humble and simple,yet versatile and vastly learned.The Kutir where he stayed on the banks of the Ganges is ever fresh in my memory -They have preserved the flooring and the simple cot that was his bed,his study table from where he wrote his innumerable books-All these are meticulously maintained.The Last I visited was in 1992 or so.

The teachings of Master Sivananda are summarized in these six words:Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realize.

Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #94 on: December 07, 2012, 09:40:09 PM »
Atmavichar,

Quote
"Classic Example is the lives of Bhagwan Ramana , Swami Sivananda and Sri Ramakrishna Paramhamsa "

Swami sivananda is a Great soul who excelled in service to others.This was part and parcel of his life even when he served as a Doctor before taking up intense sadhana in Rishikesh.He continued this service during his sadhana period as well.Truly a Mahatma,utterly humble and simple,yet versatile and vastly learned.The Kutir where he stayed on the banks of the Ganges is ever fresh in my memory -They have preserved the flooring and the simple cot that was his bed,his study table from where he wrote his innumerable books-All these are meticulously maintained.The Last I visited was in 1992 or so.

The teachings of Master Sivananda are summarized in these six words:Serve, Love, Give, Purify, Meditate, Realize.

Namaskar.

Ravi
Happy that you visited DLS and Swami Sivananda Kutir in 1992 . Rishikesh is now my sort of second home . :)
No doubt Swami Sivananda is a great example of Service before he started DLS and after he started DLS ( Divine Life Society ) but he warned people on the spiritual path not to get too extroverted  in the name of "saving society " saying it will lead to one's downfall . When people asked why did you start this institutions he said it was Divine Will and he is executing the same and not all have the capacity to be extroverted and yet stay Centered .
Swami Krishnananda also points this out very much that those who go about trying to save society without completing their spiritual work will get a bullet in their Head . He says the biggest Maya on the spirtual path after tasting few blessings on the spiritual path is to "Save Humanity" .I will produce his exact words later .
This is a very subtle topic and many may mistake this as promoting selfishness or laziness in the name of doing one's sadhana in solitude and moving away from public .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #95 on: December 07, 2012, 10:05:25 PM »
Atmavichar,
The spiritual perspective is different than the social perspective-Service to humans as Humans is the social perspective.
Service to jiva as manifest God is uplifting and is not different than Bhakti.
Every point has an equally valid counterpoint-just like solitude is essential for spiritual Growth,equally essential is the spirit of service.
Swami Sivananda emphasized this aspect like no other in his letters to disciples,especially the householder disciples.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #96 on: December 08, 2012, 09:20:26 AM »
If one could serve the poor and needy without pride and the feeling that 'I am doing', it is also a good aspect of Sadhana. Sri
Bhagavan showed this on one occasion when a goat-herd came in search of his stick on the Hill, and when Sri Bhagavan was
there seeing the boy in distress, He made a stick, with a branch of a tree, nicely polishing with green leaves,  and using His knife,
removing the ups and downs and kinks on the stick and then finally gave that to the goat-herd.

Arunachala Siva.     

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #97 on: December 14, 2012, 04:36:56 PM »
Be eager to have the true knowledge. As this eagerness grows
the wrong knowledge diminishes in strength until it finally disappears.


(Talks)




“You cannot travel the path until
you have become the path itself”
[

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #98 on: December 14, 2012, 04:43:42 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. This eagerness is sraddha and faith.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2013, 06:10:10 PM »
Friends,
The Five questions posed by Mr Joshi and Sri Bhagavan's replies are deeply instructional(Day by Day with Sri Bhagavan,03 01 1946-posted by our friend Subramanian in that dedicated thread).I am copying them here.We may contemplate on the illuminating replies by Sri Bhagavan for our benefit:

Day by Day with Bhagavan,03.01.1946:

Mr. Joshi put five questions.  I give below the questions and Sri Bhagavan's answers:

Question 1: Should I go on asking 'who am I?' without answering?  Who asks whom? Which bhavana (attitude) should
be in the mind at the time of inquiry?  What is 'I', the Self or the ego?

Answer: In the inquiry Who am I? 'I' is the ego.  The question really means, 'what is the source or origin of this ego?'
You need not have any bhavana in the mind.  All that is required is, you must give up any bhavana that you are the
body, of such and such description, with such and such a name, etc.,  There is no need to have a bhavana about your
real nature.  It exists as it always does.  It is real and no bhavana.

Question 2:  I cannot be always engaged in this inquiry, for I have got other work to do, and when I do such work,
I forget this quest.

Answer:  When you do other work, do you cease to exist?  You always exist.  Do you not?

Question 3:  Without the sense of doership, -- the sense  'I am of doing' -- work cannot be done.

Answer: It can be done.  Work without attachment.  Work will go on even better than when you worked with the sense
that you were the doer.

Question 4: I don't understand what work I should do and what not/

Answer: Don't bother. What is destined as work to be done by you in this life, will be done by you, whether you like it or
not.

Question 5: Why should I try to realize?  I will emerge from this state, as I wake up from a dream.  We do not make an
attempt to get out of a dream during sleep.

Answer: In a dream, you have no inkling that it is a dream and so you don't have the duty of trying to get out of it by
your own effort.  But in this life, you have some intuition, by your sleep experience, by reading and hearing, that this life
is something like a dream, and hence the duty is cast on you to make an effort and get out of it.  However, who wants
you realize the Self if you don't want it?  If you prefer to be in the dream, stay as you are.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2013, 06:58:50 PM »
Friends,
We may explore Sri Bhagavan's response to question 4:

Quote
Question 4: I don't understand what work I should do and what not.
Answer: Don't bother. What is destined as work to be done by you in this life, will be done by you, whether you like it or not.

What does Sri Bhagavan mean when he says -"What is destined as work to be done by you in this life, will be done by you, whether you like it or not".

Regarding this Mrs Desai asks for clarification:
With reference to question 4, Mrs. P.C. Desai quoting the Bhagavad Gita asked Bhagavan: If (as Arjuna was told) there is a certain work destined to be done by each and we shall eventually do it however much we do not wish to do it or refuse to do it, is there any freewill?

Bhagavan said: 'It is true that the work meant to be done by us will be done by us.  But it is open to us to be free from the joys and pains, pleasant and unpleasant consequences of the work, not identifying ourselves with the body or that  which does the work. If you realize your true nature, and know that it is not you, that does any work, you will be  unaffected by the consequences of whatever work the body may be engaged in according to destiny or past karma or  divine plan, however you may call it. You are always free and there is no limitation of that freedom.'

Subsequently,Devaraja Mudaliar asks Sri Bhagavan(04 01 1946):
With reference to Sri Bhagavan's answer to Mrs. Desai's question on the evening of 3.1.1946, I asked Him, 'Are only important
events in a man's life, such as his main occupation, or profession, predetermined, or are trifling acts in his life, such as taking
a cup of water, or moving from one place in the room to another, also predetermined?'

Bhagavan: Everything is predetermined.

I:  Then what responsibility, what free will has man?

Bhagavan: What for then does the body come into existence?It is designed for doing various things marked out for execution in this life.  The whole programme is chalked out. Not an atom moves except by His Will,  express the same truth, whether you say, Does not move except by His Will or Does not move except by Karma.
As for freedom for man, he is always free not to identify himself with the body and not to be affected by the pleasures or pains consequent on the body's activities"

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2013, 08:04:05 PM »
Friends,

Quote
Everything is predetermined

This response from Sri Bhagavan has been quoted often and it is usually interpreted as if one cannot change anything in his day to day living!What has to Happen in this life happens and there is nothing that one can do.How is this different than fatalism?Is Bhagavan espousing fatalism?

We may explore this through a simple example.I will steal a leaf from the book of our friend silentgreen:

Disciple:I smoke cigarettes.Each day I smoke 10 or more.
cguru:Okay.
Disciple:Do you think that I am destined to smoke?
cguru:What is destined will be done.
Disciple:Am I going to smoke a Cigarette now or not?Tell me.
cguru:As I said,What is destined will be done.
Disciple:Suppose I smoke now,is it destined?
Cguru:yes.
Disciple:Then I am not going to smoke.Does this not disprove predestination?
Cguru:No and yes.
Disciple:Why this evasive reply?Why not plainly admit that nothing can be predicted?
Cguru:I said 'No' because you remain a 'smoker' whether you smoke or not smoke.This is predestination.I said 'yes' because you have the limited 'free-will' to exercise between these two choices.If you continue to exercise the second choice over and over again,you may overcome the habit of smoking and can eventually become a 'Non smoker'.
Disciple:Does this not mean that there is no so called Predestination in as much as the so called 'Destination' can be changed?The 'Smoker' tag has got replaced by the 'Non smoker' tag?I can become free from smoking.
Cguru:Yes and No.
Disciple:Again an evasive Response!Why do you again say 'No' when it is a clear 'Yes'
Cguru:I said 'yes' because there is nothing 'fixed' in the changeable.Everything is changeable and and can be changed.I said 'No' because although the 'smoker' tag got dropped,the chain of doing continues as destined by prarabhda; as long as the sense of 'doership' continues ,the wheel of karma continues to enslave the 'doer' and follows its destined track.The experiences in the form of Sukha,Dukkha and Bhaya(Happinees,Sorrow and Fear)continues.

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Everything is predetermined.
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2013, 07:58:49 AM »
Everything is predetermined continued...

Sage Thayumanavar in his paripooranAnandam verse 10 throws light on the nature of  Everything:

ஆசைக்கோ ரளவில்லை அகிலமெல் லாங்கட்டி
       ஆளினுங் கடல்மீதிலே
    ஆனைசெல வேநினைவர் அளகேசன் நிகராக
       அம்பொன்மிக வைத்தபேரும்
நேசித்து ரசவாத வித்தைக் கலைந்திடுவர்
        நெடுநா ளிருந்தபேரும்
     நிலையாக வேயினுங் காயகற் பந்தேடி
        நெஞ்சுபுண் ணாவர்எல்லாம்
யோசிக்கும் வேளையிற் பசிதீர உண்பதும்
       உறங்குவது மாகமுடியும்
   உள்ளதே போதும்நான் நான்எனக் குளறியே
      ஒன்றைவிட் டொன்றுபற்றிப்
பாசக் கடற்க்குளே வீழாமல் மனதற்ற
       பரிசுத்த நிலையை அருள்வாய்
    பார்க்குமிட மெங்குமொரு நீக்கமற நிறைகின்ற
       பரிபூர ணானந்தமே.

Desire has limits None;Ruling all the Lands,
yet will they aspire to lord it over the seas;
Even Those who Possess Gold like alagesan
Cherish and go seeking  the science of alchemy.
Even Those long lived, aspiring to stay put
Go in search of Kayakalpa,ending up brokenhearted-
All this when considered ,would end up as just
appeasing of Hunger and sleeping.
That which is-is Enough!
Babbling 'i' "i',giving up onething while hooking onto another-
Not to fall (thus)in the sea of attachments,
Do thou Grace me that Mindless Pure State!
Oh! Thou who filleth all visible space
In unbroken continuity!
Thou, the Bliss that is Perfect Full!

Thayumanavar says -All activities when well considered fall under two states-Eating and sleeping;Desire for power ,wealth and Long life of enjoyment is what he terms as 'Hunger and its appeasement';when there is temporary satiation that this appeasement brings,he calls it 'sleep'.This goes on endlessly and the seeker who considers this well,aspires for Grace to Break free.
The Human mind in bondage tends to think that it has freewill when it gives up 'onething' for 'another'.The Wise consider this as just the karmic continuum-'Everything is predetermined'.

Sri Bhagavan further confirms-"As for freedom for man, he is always free not to identify himself with the body and not to be affected by the pleasures or pains consequent on the body's activities"

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2013, 08:04:10 AM by Ravi.N »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2013, 09:44:53 AM »
Dear Ravi,

Very nice.  Thanks.  One Siddhar sang:  thoongaiyile vAnguhira moochu; adhu thisai mARip ponAlum pocchu.

The breath that we intake during sleep, if it goes out to some other direction, without again entering our nostrils/
lungs, (what can I do?).  Everything is determined by you.  AttuvithAl yAr oruvar AdAharo?  says another Siddhar.
He is the puppet player and we are the puppets.

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2013, 10:45:50 AM »

Often one hears people saying that Bhagavan was an Avatar, in this way thinking to add to His glory.  But except for the fact
that everybody might possibly be called an Avatar, since each of us is God in human body, there was absolutely no ground
for saying so.

One day a Sannyasin belonging to a well known order, who think that their Guru alone attained Self Realization, challenged
Bhagavan in a most aggressive and unmannerly fashion.

Sadhu: People say that you are an Avatar of Subramaniam. What do you say about it?

Bhagavan said nothing.

Sadhu: If it is a fact, why do you keep silence about it? Why don't you speak out and tell the truth?

Bhagavan did not reply.

Sadhu: Tell us, we want to know.

Bhagavan: (quietly): An Avatar is only a partial manifestation of God, whereas a Jnani is God Himself.

Here lies the whole difference between Advaita and other philosophies.  In Advaita all is nothing but the Self.  There is no
room for such special manifestations as Avatars.  A person is either Self realized or is not.  There are no degrees. 

Major Chadwick.

Arunachala Siva.