Bhagavad Gita online

[Jyoti]

Where can I find an English Bhagavad Gita translation online that is not translated by ISKCON?
I try to find out about 12.5, the translation I read is:

For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.

I suspect this to be the ISKCON interpretation.

[vishnave]

hello,

you can find some translation here :

http://202.3.77.102/acquia/?q=node/20

Nasmate

[Jyoti]

Thank you very much. 

[Ravi.N]

Vishnave,
Thanks very much for that link.
Jyoti/Friends,
This is how swami GambirAnanda's(Ramakrishna Mutt)Translation goes and it does not differ significantly from the ISKON one perhaps:
Gita ,Chapter12,Verse 5:

For them who have their minds attached to the Unmanifested the struggle is greater; for, the Goal which is the Unmanifest is attained with difficulty by the embodied ones

This is indeed the position of all Great ones.Sri Ramakrishna has said exactly the same thing.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

"To follow jnanayoga in this age is also very difficult. First, a man's life depends entirely
on food. Second, he has a short span of life. Third, he can by no means get rid of bodyconsciousness;
and the Knowledge of Brahman is impossible without the destruction of
body-consciousness. The jnani says: 'I am Brahman; I am not the body. I am beyond hunger
and thirst, disease and grief, birth and death, pleasure and pain.' How can you be a jnani if
you are conscious of disease, grief, pain, pleasure, and the like? A thorn enters your flesh,
blood flow from the wound, and you suffer very badly from the pain; but nevertheless, if
you are a jnani you must be able to say: 'Why, there is no thorn in my flesh at all. Nothing
is the matter with me'

We know how the above description fits Bhagavan -He literally had thorns in his feet and when someone offered to pick them out Bhagavan coolly asked him-'The New one or the Old one'!

This is not to discourage anyone doing self -enquiry but the order of one-pointedness and freedom from Body-Consciousness(The Characteristic stamp of all embodied beings)  that is called for is clearly delineated.

Namaskar.

[Ravi.N]

Friends,
I warmly recommend Swami Chidbhavanda's Gita with commentary.This can be purchased from Sri Ramakrishna Mutt.It is available in Tamil and English and is quite a fat tome.Yet it is immensely readable.It has a wonderful transliteration so that one can follow the Original text,and a good translation and a wonderful commentary.It is quite cheap as well.

I have to say however that my own favourite is The Essays on the Gita by Sri Aurobindo.None of the speakers that I have heard (includes Swami Ranganathananda,Chinmayananda,Sadhu Parthasarathy)came anywhere close to the breadth and sweep of Sri Aurobindo's vision and elucidation of the Gita.I came to know about the ' Essays on the Gita' of Sri Aurobindo as I found it mentioned as an excellent choice in Swami Prabhavananda's  (along with Christopher Isherwood)translation.The Essays on the Gita by Sri Aurobindo can be downloaded from:
http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/writings.php

One of the best books on the Great Tamil work of mAnikkavAchakar-TiruvAchakam is also by Swami Chidbhavananda.This ,of-course is available only in Tamil and is a superb work.

Namaskar.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Ravi,

The Chidbhavananda's translation and commentary on Srimad Bhagvad Gita and Tiruvachakam, raise nostalgic memories in me.

When I went to Tiruparaithurai, where his Sri Ramakrishna Tapovanam, is there, I first purchased these two books, say, sometimes
in late 1970s. Each book was costing Rs 5 only. Wonderful purchases!  Nice books with upanishad mantrams annexed under many
slokas. I have not read Sri Aurobindo's but these two books really helped me a lot to understand both these scriptures.  I checked
up in T'malai just for curiosity in the Asramam book stall. These books cost each Rs 160.00.  India has come a long way in its inflation!

As regards publication of Sri Ramakrishna Math, Gambhirananda's translation and commentary according to me are the best.
The editions of Gorakpur  Gita press and ISKCON give interpretations according to qualified non dualism. 

Arunachala Siva.
 

[Ravi.N]

Friends,
An excerpt from Sri Aurobindo's 'The Essays on The Gita' ,from the opening chapter where Sri Aurobindo sets forth the way we can approach the study of this great scripture:

"I hold it therefore of small importance to extract from the
Gita its exact metaphysical connotation as it was understood
by the men of the time,—even if that were accurately possible.
That it is not possible, is shown by the divergence of the original
commentaries which have been and are still being written upon
it; for they all agree in each disagreeing with all the others,
each finds in the Gita its own system of metaphysics and trend
of religious thought. Nor will even the most painstaking and
disinterested scholarship and the most luminous theories of the
historical development of Indian philosophy save us from inevitable
error. But what we can do with profit is to seek in the
Gita for the actual living truths it contains, apart from their
metaphysical form, to extract from it what can help us or the
world at large and to put it in the most natural and vital form
and expression we can find that will be suitable to the mentality
and helpful to the spiritual needs of our present-day humanity.
No doubt in this attempt we may mix a good deal of error born
of our own individuality and of the ideas in which we live, as
did greater men before us, but if we steep ourselves in the spirit
of this great Scripture and, above all, if we have tried to live in
that spirit, we may be sure of finding in it as much real truth
as we are capable of receiving as well as the spiritual influence
and actual help that, personally, we were intended to derive
from it. And that is after all what Scriptures were written to
give; the rest is academical disputation or theological dogma.
Only those Scriptures, religions, philosophies which can be thus
constantly renewed, relived, their stuff of permanent truth constantly
reshaped and developed in the inner thought and spiritual
experience of a developing humanity, continue to be of living
importance to mankind. The rest remain as monuments of the
past, but have no actual force or vital impulse for the future."

Sri Aurobindo launches into the spirit of the Gita not as a 'follower' who adheres to the beaten track,  but as an explorer on a voyage of discovery .His long winding style of writing may take some time to get used to,but the moment we get used to it,we are treated to some of the loftiest soarings of inspiration.
One of the most wonderful aspects of his writing is the balance and sense of proportion of the plethora of ideas and approaches that the Gita abounds in.It is very easy for the Practitioners of Karma Yoga to give a slant to it and say that it emphasized Karma yoga;Similiarly the Vedantins could give it an emphasis on the AjAta Vada thoughts that it might contain as well as the Jnana aspects;The Bhaktas may give it a slant by quoting some famous verses and say that ultimately favours Bhakti and surrender.Sri Aurobindo avoids all these biases and beautifully brings out the synthesis and breadth and depth of this unparalleled Song-celestial.Truly a magnificient reading.

Namaskar.

[Ravi.N]

Subramanian,
Yes indeed.The Ramakrishna tapovanam was my favourite haunt during the weekends(College days)in the seventies.The Handpound rice(brown in colour) that they serve for lunch and the simple satvic side dishes were a delight.I had the rare opportunity to have lunch with Swami Chidbhavananda!After lunch I accompanied him to his room on the First floor.Swamiji just rested and he said that after food,it is a good idea to just lie down on one side-and not to fall asleep.He said that it allows the blood flow to the stomach and aids digestion.I still recall the wonderful gaze of the Swami,it was a little turned upwards and seemingly on the Ajna chakra,between the Eyebrows.

Namaskar.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Ravi,

Nice information. I have only seen Sri Chidbhavananda but not moved with him quite closely those days. I have also not taken
the sattvic food of that Tapovanam. He was a great Jnani. I think he was first in Sri Ramakrishna Math, but came out for some
reasons which I do not know. 

His two books along with Tamizh Tauyumanavar songs are really a treasure.

I also get my nostalgic memories of my college days in Tiruchiirapalli.  Even though my father, with a small income suffered to bring us
up and my mother was always buying food provisions on credit, those were the golden days in my life.

Arunachala Siva.   

[Ravi.N]

Subramanian,
Reading about your parents recalls to my mind-mAtru devO Bhava,Pitru DevO BhavA-They have bequeathed you the priceless treasure of spiritual aspiration that has lead you to the lotus feet of Sri Bhagavan.What if they were poor ,truly they must have been Rich in spiritual and Dharmic values.
Yes,swami Chidbhavananda broke away from the R K Mutt -This was on account of difference in outlook only,and nothing by way of any serious dischord.
For one thing,Swamiji could never come to terms of agreement with the Mutt's decision to allow only Graduates as Brahmacharis and monks.Unlearned persons cannot take to monastic life and inducted into R K Mutt and Mission.
Swami Chidbhavananda felt that this is needless and wondered whether someone like  Sri Ramakrishna himself could gain admission,given these guidelines.On the R K Mutt front,they wanted to ensure that only people who could have otherwise made a living and fit to stand on their own feet -These alone should be given the opportunity in case they choose to join the Mutt;Or else there may be weaklings who may try to gain entry in order to avoid the grind of the world.
There were other such difference in ideologies that made him break away from the parent organization.
Yes,Swamiji's commentaries on The wonderful Songs of ThAyumAnavar are a very good reference.The Ramakrishna Tapovanam is Ramnad district takes care of the Places associated with ThAyumanavar just before he passed away.I Understand that thAyumAnavar's samadhi is also taken care of by the Tapovanam.

Namaskar.

[Subramanian.R]

Dear Ravi,

Thanks for your sentiments.  Tayumanavar's Samadhi is on the outskirts of Ramanathapuram Town, a semi urban area called Lakshmi
Puram. He attained Samadhi (videha kaivalyam) in the year 1783 A.D.  Subhakrithu Varsham, Pushya month, Visaka Nakshatram.
His year of birth is estimated to be AD 1703 and he was born in Tiruchirapalli.

As you rightly said the Samadhi premises are maintained by Sri Ramakrishna Tapovanam. 

Arunachala Siva.

[Ravi.N]

uday,
In reading the books written by Great ones, one comes directly in touch with their consciouness.This is what Sri Nolini kanta gupta says on how to read Sri Aurobindo's writings:

There are two things: studying and reading; I made a distinction between the two. To study Sri Aurobindo is ― I won’t say fruitless, that is too strong a word, but it can only be an aid or a supplementary way. Study means: you take the text, you understand mentally each word and phrase; if you don’t understand, you take a dictionary and try to catch the external meaning expressed by the words. That may be neces­sary but it is not the way to approach their works.

Simply to read them in the right way is sufficient. Read, it does not matter what you understand and what you do not, simply read and wait in an expectant silence. In studying you approach them with your external mind, your external intel­ligence. But what is there in the text is beyond your mind, beyond your intelligence. And to understand mentally means you drive your intellect forward into the thing. It is an effort and takes you only to the outside of the thing. It is an exercise of your brain, developed in that way, but it doesn’t take you very far.

Instead of that, suppose you could keep quiet, silence your mind, and only read, without unduly trying to understand, and wait for what is there in the text to enter into you. Instead of your intelligence driving forward, pushing forward and trying to catch the thing, let the thing come into you; for what is there in their writings is not words and phrases, dead material, it is something very living, something conscious, that they have expressed in the words, phrases and the sound and rhythm. And I may tell you that each sentence anywhere, not to speak of Savitri, is a living being with whom you have to make acquain­tance ― not that you understand or are able to explain, but it is a living being, an entity, a friend, even a Lover whom you have to know. And your attempt in that way will be rewarded. You will enjoy much more. You may ask: “Just because I open a book and read, how can what are in the lines come to me?” But I say they are living entities ― if you approach in the right spirit, they come into you. The consciousness, the being in each line comes to you. And you find how beautiful it is. This is­ an approach of love, not of the intellect to understand and explain

This is an immersive experience. Most of the persons who give talks on the Gita are only sharing 'thoughts' ,what they 'learnt'.I have always found it better to read anything without commentary-The Power of the original utterance is there.One may initially take help from commentaries.

"swadhyaya pravachanabhyam na pramaditavyam"-Do Not neglect self study and exposition-Taittriya upanishad.

You ask about Sri Aurobindo-No,he does not admit Sankara's philosophy of mayavada.Sri Aurobindo's integral Yoga does not consider the Manifestation of the phenomenal world as a Dream,unreal,etc.It will not be possible to cover the differences here.His marvellous 'Essays on the Gita' can be downloaded from this site:
http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/writings.php

Namaskar.

[Ravi.N]

udai/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from Sri Aurobindo's ' Essays on the Gita',where the Master writes about the Divine Teacher of the Gita,the avatar:

India has from ancient times held strongly a belief in the
reality of the Avatara, the descent into form, the revelation of
the Godhead in humanity. In the West this belief has never really
stamped itself upon the mind because it has been presented
through exoteric Christianity as a theological dogma without
any roots in the reason and general consciousness and attitude
towards life. But in India it has grown up and persisted as a
logical outcome of the Vedantic view of life and taken firm root
in the consciousness of the race. All existence is a manifestation
of God because He is the only existence and nothing can be
except as either a real figuring or else a figment of that one
reality. Therefore every conscious being is in part or in some
way a descent of the Infinite into the apparent finiteness of
name and form. But it is a veiled manifestation and there is
a gradation between the supreme being of the Divine and the
consciousness shrouded partly or wholly by ignorance of self
in the finite. The conscious embodied soul is the spark of the
divine Fire and that soul in man opens out to self-knowledge as
it develops out of ignorance of self into self-being. The Divine
also, pouring itself into the forms of the cosmic existence, is
revealed ordinarily in an efflorescence of its powers, in energies
and magnitudes of its knowledge, love, joy, developed force of
being,3 in degrees and faces of its divinity. But when the divine
Consciousness and Power, taking upon itself the human form
and the human mode of action, possesses it not only by powers
and magnitudes, by degrees and outward faces of itself but out
of its eternal self-knowledge, when the Unborn knows itself and
acts in the frame of the mental being and the appearance of
birth, that is the height of the conditioned manifestation; it is
the full and conscious descent of the Godhead, it is the Avatara.

We may now see what Sri Ramakrishna says in The Gospel :

Different manifestations of the Absolute
"But the Nitya and the Lila are the two aspects of the same Reality. As I have said before, it
is like the roof and the steps leading to it. The Absolute plays in many ways: as Isvara, as
the gods, as man, and as the universe. The Incarnation is the play of the Absolute as man.
Do you know how the Absolute plays as man? It is like the rushing down of water from a
big roof through a pipe; the power of Satchidananda-nay, Satchidananda Itself-descends
through the conduit of a human form as water descends through the pipe. Only twelve
sages, Bharadvaja and the others, recognized Rama as an Incarnation of God. Not everyone
can recognize an Incarnation.

I have given an excerpt from 'Essays on The Gita' as a sample.Sri Aurobindo did Gita sadhana when he was in the alipore jail(around 1908 or so).He experienced  Krishna and all the insights are through this sadhana and not learnt by reading anyone else's commentary.
Sri Ramakrishna says:

Futility of mere reasoning
(To M.) "I do see God directly. What shall I reason about? I clearly see that He Himself has
become everything; that He Himself has become the universe and all living beings.
"But without awakening one's own inner consciousness one cannot realize the Allpervading
Consciousness. How long does a man reason? So long as he has not realized
God. But mere words will not do. As for myself, I clearly see that He Himself has become
everything. The inner consciousness must be awakened through the grace of God. Through
this awakening a man goes into samadhi. He often forgets that he has a body. He gets rid of
his attachment to 'woman and gold' and does not enjoy any talk unless it is about God.
Worldly talk gives him pain. Through the awakening of the inner consciousness one
realizes the All-pervading Consciousness."
The discussion came to a close. Sri Ramakrishna said to M.: "I have observed that a man
acquires one kind of knowledge about God through reasoning and another kind through
meditation; but he acquires a third kind of Knowledge about God when God reveals
Himself to him, His devotee. If God Himself reveals to His devotee the nature of Divine
Incarnation-how He plays in human form-, then the devotee doesn't have to, reason about
the problem or need an explanation. Do you know what it is like? Suppose a man is in a
dark room. He goes on rubbing a match against a match-box and all of a sudden light
comes. Likewise, if God gives us this flash of divine light, all our doubts are destroyed.
Can one ever know God by mere reasoning?"

Namaskar.

[Nagaraj]

Dear Sri Ravi, Friends,

Regarding this question about whether both, nonduality and qualified nonduality are valid,

i came with this discernment that what Sri Ramakrishna has conveyed is like a Palindrome. A palindrome is a word, phrase, number, or other sequence of units that may be read the same way in either direction. For example: LIRIL

Ultimatley, there is no difference, it is the same, only the way we see, alone changes, but that which is, alone is, without any change! Hence both are valid, from point of view. Both see the same!

Infact, on some scrutiny, Palindrome, has been a significant concept in our vedic contemplation over the centuries.

Jnana Sambandhar has composed Palindromic devotional poetry:

யாமாமாநீ யாமாமா யாழீகாமா காணாகா
காணாகாமா காழீயா மாமாயாநீ மாமாயா

It refers to Shiva as the incomparable God, the one who plays the Veena, the beautiful one adorned with snakes, the one who destroyed Kama, whose abode is Sirkazhi, who also appears as Vishnu, and beseeches him (Shiva) to rid the devotee of impurities.

This Sanskrit poem was written by "nandi-ghanta kavis" in kanda style, by Ramaswamy Dikshitar, father of Muthuswamy Dhikshitar:

सारस नयना घन जघ
नारचित रतार कलिक हर सार रसा
सार रसारह कलिकर
तारत चिरनाघ जनघ नायनसरसा |


Some popular english palindromes:

‘Madam, I am Adam’.

“First Ladies rule the State and state the rule: ladies first” .

 

I have used the example of a glass tumbler half filled with water, where one sees that it is half filled, and the other sees it as half empty.

So, there is really, no difference, between any of the Siddhantas, I strongly believe so. All are valid.

Salutations to Bhagavan

[Ravi.N]

Nagaraj,

"So, there is really, no difference, between any of the Siddhantas, I strongly believe so. All are valid"

I completely agree.

"i came with this discernment that what Sri Ramakrishna has conveyed is like a Palindrome. A palindrome is a word, phrase, number, or other sequence of units that may be read the same way in either direction. For example: LIRIL"

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Faith and self-surrender
Two things are necessary for the realization of God; faith and self-surrender. Man is
ignorant by nature. Errors are natural to him. Can a one-seer pot hold four seers of milk?
Whatever path you may follow, you must pray to God with a restless heart. He is the Ruler
of the soul within. He will surely listen to your prayer if it is sincere. Whether you follow
the ideal of the Personal God or that of the Impersonal Truth, you will realize God alone,
provided you are restless for Him. A cake with icing tastes sweet whether you eat it straight
or sidewise

.
Palindrome!
That one by Jnana sambandar is indeed wonderful.

Yet,I will have to say that in the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna,there is a seed of 'affirmation' of the manifestation instead of the Negation of the phenomena,through a witdrawal into Nirvana.Sri Aurobindo takes this forward even further in his Integral Yoga.I will post from his letters that clearly mention this,as also I will post from Sri Ramakrishna's sayings that points to it.I will not be drawn into any discussion or debate on this.I will state it for what it is.
My position on these things is that whatever we may have heard or learnt till now,counts for nothing.Just carry on with the sadhana and what God reveals to us is what matters-not what Sri Ramakrishna or sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo or any other has said!We may make use of all these but cannot bind ourselves by any of these.
Namaskar.