Realisation

[nonduel]

 Bhagvan Ramana Maharishi

 D.: How will it end?
 
M.: That which is born must end. The delusion is only concomitant with the ego. It rises up and sinks. But the Reality never rises nor
 sinks. It remains Eternal. The Master who has realised says so; the disciple hears, thinks over the words and realises the Self. There
 are two ways of putting it.
 
The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realised, Realisation is already there. Illusion alone is to be removed. Some say the word
 from the mouth of the Master removes it instantaneously. Others say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realisation. Both are
 right; only the standpoints differ.

[nonduel]

Dear Srkudai,

The only point I'm presenting is, what is the teaching of Bhagavan?

Please do not consider this being argumentative, trying to convince you or others, but just clarifying the core, the heart of Ramana's teaching. I will be happy if I am shown my misunderstanding.

The ever-present Self needs no efforts to be realised, Realisation is already there. Illusion alone is to be removed

Only the Illusion has to be removed! How does one do this? Ramana said it was Self-Enquiry. That's it!  All the rest, reading intensively, japas, formal meditation etc...isn't needed. Of course one can keep on reading etc.

The teaching is to go at the source, because everything else is keeping the mind outward.

Others say that meditation, etc., are necessary for realisation. Both are right; only the standpoints differ.

Only the standpoints!

[nonduel]

Dear Srkudai,

And please do not think I am disagreeing with you or any such thing. its just some sharing of information.

Exactly, same with me!

Maybe first I should make a point clear. I have read a large quantity of books, beside many texts on the web. I have meditated for well over 25 years (yes I am that old...) done many sadhanas, some worthwhile others...

So I agree that a basic foundation has to be build for most. So on this I believe we agree.

I don't remember to precice situation, but I'm sure you know about it. Ramana was asked what he sees when he looks at the disciples and he replied that he sees only Jnanis, he only sees himself. Another when someone remarked that he wasn't eating he replied: "There are thousand of mouths eating for him..." 

Now if you were in front of Bhagavan and he told you this you would accept this as the ultimate Truth. If Ramana say you are a Jnani, then the belief that one has to liberate himself is an illusion. He said this in so many differents ways. He would say ask who wants to be liberate etc... You get the point!

Thus for me, all that you wrote applies to the mind, the ego. This is an identification with the body. It is only a standpoint

Tat Svam Asi...Ramana said that you do not go on thinking that you are Brahman (this is a thought) like you don't need to repeat I am a man...I am a man...

It is right that Self-enquiry is a very, very slippery practice and the mind won't let you easily do it. But it does get easier with time if you stick with earnestness to it, no matter the immediate results. They DO occurs after a time.

If I resume, put all your available time to Self-enquiry, there is no other sadhana that comes near it. This is total surrender! Surrender effort, filling the mind with knowledge etc...

Not a total disagreement with you Srkudai ji, let's get at the heart of this by sharing information and view points.  Our standpoints!!!

[nonduel]

for that matter why self inquiry ?
will not chanting arunachala siva 24 7 lead one to liberation?
or chanting any name of God continuously ... every possible moment.
one will be liberated thus.

Ramadas was liberated by chanting rama nama.

Because that is what Bhagavan continously taught as the best mean and the fastest.

He never said not to do japas etc. Because he always gave an individual adapted answer in respect to the disciple. I would add, on the disciple's "standpoint". Thus I am not contesting that some have been liberated through other means.

[nonduel]

If u do so. but doing so means: you have a an extreme measure of mumukshatvam [desire for liberation] and vairagyam [detachment with respect to worldly things] and also vivekam since you are able to do self inquiry.

Obviously that means the mind is so pure... then u do not require self inquiry at all. when mind is totally pure , the scriptures say "Sakruta sravana matrena brahma jnanam yatho bhavet" Just by hearing once Self knowledge can happen. This is so when the mind is absolutely pure.


The question of a pure mind is strictly of the mind. Either I believe what the mind says or I believe what Bhagavan said. This is where one's standpoint stands. We cannot acquire Liberation because it would mean that it can also be lost, then it wouldn't be permanent. Liberation can never be "lost" or "acquired". This is what Ramana taught.

All the rest is of the mind, the ego. Self-enquiry doesn't "give" Liberation, it only destroy the ego that veils.

On doing it continously, I didn't expressed myself correctly. One has to continously "return" to it!

[nonduel]

Dear Srkudai,

All I have written clumsily, english isn't my mother tongue and sometime I will choose a word that isn't the best one to convey my meaning, is very well explained in the differents posts you have written about the Ribhu Gita chapter 12.

[Subramanian.R]

Sri Bhagavan said to Annamalai Swami: The Self is ever present. Only the illusions should be removed. All our efforts are only towards
this. Being near the guru helps this very much. Grace is ever present but one should not jut his ego in between.

Arunachala Siva.