Author Topic: DELETED.  (Read 6368 times)

srkudai

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« on: August 24, 2010, 11:01:26 AM »
:)We do not need Ashtavakra Gita. it says from the very beginning that we are free! how can that be ?
is it not ego to say taht ?

« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 08:46:23 PM by srkudai »

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 12:53:08 PM »
I really appreciate your enthusiasm udai garu.

Please do continue writing more about Ashtavakra Gita and we all can participate and can have a nice healthy discussion.
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2010, 11:10:36 AM »

Dear srkudai,

As I read your latest post on Ashtavakra Gita, what struck me
immediately, was the Bhagavan Ramana's answer to question
No. 24 of M. Sivaprakasam Pillai.  He was barely 21 and He had
never read any scriptures.  He says in that answer No. 24:-

Question:-  What is happiness?

Happiness is the very nature of the Self.  Happiness and the Self
are not different. There is NO HAPPINESS in any object of the world. We imagine through our ignorance that we derive happiness
from objects.  When the mind goes out, it experiences misery.  In truth, when its desires are fulfilled, it returns to its own place [the
Source] and enjoys happiness that is the Self.  Similarly, in the states of deep sleep, samadhi and fainting, and when the object
desired is obtained, or the object disliked is removed, the mind becomes inward-turned, and enjoys pure Self-Happiness, [Bliss].
Thus the mind moves without rest alternately going out of the Self and returning to it.  Under the tree the shade is pleasant.  Out in
the open the heat is scorching.  A person who has been going about in the sun feels cool when he reaches the shade.  Someone who keeps on going from shade into the sun and then back into the shade is ignorant.  A WISE MAN STAYS PERMANENTLY in the shade.  Similarly, the mind of the one who knows the Truth does not leave Brahman.  The mind of the ignorant, on the contrary, revolves in he world, feeling miserable, and for a little time returns to Brahman to experience the bliss.  In fact, what is called the world is only a thought.  When the world disappears, i.e., when there is no thought, the mind experiences bliss. And when the world appears, it goes through misery.


Arunachala Siva.   
   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2010, 10:01:41 AM »


Dear srkudai,

Yes, uttering a lie, immoral relationship with a woman/a man,
who is not one's wife/one's husband, killing or injuring any
living being wantonly, thieving, treachery -- all these are impurities.  Unless one drops all these things, one cannot do any sadhana.

These are called Chitta-malams, basically mind defilement.  This
refers to only anava-malam, the ego defilement.  Muruganar says
it has the ghost nature.  If one removes this ego-defilement, the
other two will automatically drop off.  Then one attains Chitta-
suddhi.  This Chitta-suddhi is the pre requisite for any spiritual
sadhana.  Without Chitta-suddhi, money, book knowledge etc.,
will be of no avail.

Muruganar says in his own comments to Guru Vachaka Kovai,
Verse 849:

Dharmas that do not have at least a trace of tyaga mingled in them, are, like a lifeless corpse, useless.

In Talks No. 581, Bhagavan Ramana has said:

"Dana, dharma, nishkama karma are all tyaga only.  Here 'mine'
is given up and it is Chitta suddhi. [purified mind].  When "I"
is given up it is Jnana.  When the nature to give away is developed it results in Jnana.


Arunachala Siva.   
     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2010, 10:30:12 AM »

Dear srkudai,

Yes. One cannot avoid thoughts springing up.  Bhagavan Ramana
though He had said, that true ajapa is "I", "I", He did not dis-
approve Japa, repeating of any god's names with mouth.  This
is the best way to turn our attention from thoughts on which we
are helpless.

In Letters from Sri Ramanasramam, entry dated 23.5.1947, it is
said:-

Question:  Is there no benefit at all in doing Japa with the mouth?

Bhagavan:  Who said no?  That will be the means for chitta-suddhi [purifying the mind].  As the Japa is done repeatedly, the effort
ripens and sooner or later leads to the right path.



Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2010, 10:42:52 AM »


Dear srkudai,

Bhagavan Ramana always insisted upon Chitta-suddhi, [which forgives itself first and then forgives others], as a pre-requisite
for Self Enquiry.

Padamalai verses refer to this in detail:-

Verse 2074:  Since purity of mind is indispensable for any kind of
spiritual sadhana, it possesses an eminence of the highest order.

Verse 863:  The greatness of Chitta suddhi is that it is the mother
of all virtuous conduct.  Realizing this, examine your mind everyday.

Verse 1747:  It is natural for a mind that behaves with outstanding
rectitude to obtain a firm and focused tranquility.

Verse 1149:  The melting of the mind [towards God] and the compassion [it exhibits towards creatures], are the means of purifying the mind.

Verse 1257:  Consciousness, one's real nature, is extremely subtle, so subtle, that it cannot be known by speech, mind or intellect.

Verse 1258:  It is therefore proper and necessary that they should first be reformed through reflecting upon the grace-consciousness of God.

Verse 2081:  The nature of thoughts that arise in the mind, will be in accordance with the old vasanas.

Verse 1270:  The disturbing agitation of the mind that occurs when one attempts to get firmly established in sadhana is a normal occurrence that is prompted by the rising of vasanas.

Verse 1271:  If at that time, you hold tightly to the power of the grace of the Parasakti that has possessed you, the vasana that agitates your mind and distresses you will be completely destroyed.


Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 06:11:58 PM »
For elimination of the dirt in us, we exercise some sort of restraint, which are of different methods, we do Bhajan, japa, homa, Yoga, meditation, pranayama, etc... Be it what ever we do, Vidyaranya says:

Control is of two kinds: violent and gradual control. The first of them is done by blockading the knowledge-organs such as eye, ear etc. and the action-organs such as larynx, hands etc. at their respective seats by force. A deluded man, by this instance, wrongly thinks that in this manner he shall control the mind also. But the mind cannot be controlled in that way, since its centre - the lotus-like heart is impossible to control. Therefore, gradual control is justified.

The means to gradual are the study of the knowledge of the Self and others. This science of the Self gives rise to the conviction of the unreality of all knowable things and the Knower as the Self-evident Reality. Having been convinced thus, the mind finds knowable things, that are within its purview, are useless, and realizes that the Knower, although an useful thing (Reality), is beyond its grasp, and dissolves of its own, like the fire without fuel - (Bhagavan says Camphor).

Some of us are blessed with determination of doing some sadhana and stick to it without having any need to look for a different sadhana. Some are endowed by way of family and traditions and cultures and thereby stick to what the family has been doing. Some do Bhajans, some do Pujas, some meditations, etc... There are second set of people who are not said to be not endowed with such family traditions, etc... They come into the spiritual world by the grace or pull of a Guru, and they begin doing bhajan, and they may find that Bhajan doesn't seem to help them and then they shift to meditation, and for some days they will be inclined to meditation, and then again they change their sadhana to Yoga, dhyana, tapa, vichara marga etc...

Vidyaranya advises us a gradual and holistic movement in our sadhana with determination. Some are blessed by virtue of their past lives and hence they do not have any need to change their sadhanas, but some are required to experiment each ways until they are blessed in their path.

Salutations to Sri Ramana



“You cannot travel the path until
you have become the path itself”
[

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 08:12:39 PM »
The power which veils the Self-knowledge is called Avarana Dosha.We know we exist(Saamaanyamsamu) but we do not know the essential nature (visheshaamsamu) of our existence.
Once Self is veiled the power which identifies and mistakes the non-Self as the Self is called Mala dosha.
Once Self is veiled like that the power which shows the unicity of Self as multiplicity is called Vikshepa dosha.
All these doshas reside in the mind.Once we attain to Self-knowledge all these three defects are destroyed.
This is the observation of Adi Sankara in Viveka Chudamani.
pvssnraju

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 08:23:51 PM »
Well said raju garu.

Bhagavan Ramana used to say,

When a husband dies, none of his wives remain unwidowed, so when the actor [the ego] dies, no actions remain over, which would yield result [to the sage].

Till then its better we work without attachment and leave the results to Supreme God as suggested by Lord Krishna in Bhagavad Gita.

Bg Gita Ch5 text10

Quote
One who performs his duty without attachment, surrendering the results unto the Supreme God, is not affected by sinful action, as the lotus leaf is untouched by water.

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Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 10:16:21 AM »

Dear Dr. Raju,

The pure state [suddha nilai] exists and shines as unceasing Pure
Being in the Heart [ULLam] after the other thoughts that rise
from oneself  [viksehpa] and the Self-forgetfulness [avarana] that
is the basis for their rising are fully destroyed.  This Heart alone is
the unsurpassed world of Supreme Self that possesses such excellence that even gods like Indra, the ruler of a heaven where pleasures abound, seek it with intense longing.  {Muruganar}

Arunachala Siva.   


Subramanian.R

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2010, 11:33:23 AM »




Dear srkudai,

Excellent.

There are three places in which Muruganar talks about the five elements, and each one can be contemplated along with this verse
in Ashtavakra Gita.

Guru Vachaka Kovai [Tr. David Godman]

verse 52:   If one corrects one's gross vision, transforming it into the eye of Jnana, and if one attentively views [the world] with that eye
of Truth that is wholly Jnana, then the world which was previously
seen as the form of five elements, beginning with Space, will be only the Brahman, that is entirely consciousness.

Verse 688:  The ego is the identification with the body that is composed of the five elements.  When, through the death of that ego, you refuse to take upon yourself, the Self, the afflictions that are associated with the body through the five elements.  And when, becoming indifferent to them, you cast those afflictions aside, that indeed is the conquest of the five elements.

Verse 726:  The blessed grace of God, who has the eight-fold form, will be impossible to secure except through the grace of the Guru.
It will not come through learning or through any other means but it will arise spontaneously through devotion.

The eight forms of God or Siva are the five elements, the sun, the
moon and the Jiva.

Satyamangalam Venkataramana Iyer says in his Ramana Sadguru
song:-

He is filling all the five elements,
But He has gone beyond the five sheaths,
He removes the misery of the praying devotees,
He is the firmament of Jnana.

(Verse 9)

Arunachala Siva.     

prasanth_ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2010, 01:04:32 PM »
Lets take a simple example. Suppose i do not like a particular kind of food, infact i hate it. I have to eat it. So its in my plate. And there is a sense of repulsion arising.

To see that there is this sense of repulsion, what is needed? Just observe, isnt it? The mind keeps jumping " i do not like this", "I may vomit if i try this" and so on. This is a wonderful chance to observe the truth of statements such as this. Its perfectly harmless and safe . Also it gives us  a chance to see what is happening within.

With regards to food having raga-dwesha is ok and we should not come under the sway of raga-dvesha.

Even bhagavan wanted to have idly-chilli power during last stages of life though management did not allow.

But i have no clue how people like Prahlad Jani garu are surviving without food and water. Just amazing.

http://5magazine.wordpress.com/2010/05/05/prahlad-jani-i-feel-no-need-for-food-and-water/

Anyways it is fact that with regards to fasting Hindu Jains and muslims are far better and amazing when compared to other people.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 01:15:04 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »
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amiatall

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 04:15:54 PM »
not only understand but live it. enlightenment is to be lived. not seek, pursue, control but live it.

prasanth_ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 07:03:34 PM »
In theory you are right udai garu.

But somehow i dare to say that though we understand we cannot live it always i.e 100%

I feel As far as possible we need to strive for it hence scriptures suggest sravanam,mananam and niddhidyasanam.

In one way amiatall garu is also correct.

Controlling mind is not possible always and however how much extent we understand our scriptures and teachings.

Quote
Bg Gita Ch6 Text35

The Blessed Lord said: O mighty-armed son of Kunti, it is undoubtedly very difficult to curb the restless mind, but it is possible by constant practice and by detachment.

So sravanam,mananam and niddhidyasanam come in order wise.




« Last Edit: September 09, 2010, 09:57:07 PM by prasanth_ramana_maharshi »
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prasanth_ramana_maharshi

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Re: Ashtavakra Gita
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2010, 01:01:02 PM »
well said udai garu. I agree with you.
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