Author Topic: Conversation between Ramana Maharshi and Swami Madhavathirta  (Read 868 times)


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Swami Madhavathirta: In the Vedanta of Sri Sankaracharya, the principle of creation of the world has been accepted for the sake of beginners, but for the advanced, the principle of non-creation is put forward. What is your view on this matter?

Maharshi: "There is no dissolution or creation, no one in bondage, nor anyone pursuing spiritual practices. There is no one desiring liberation nor anyone liberated. This is the Absolute Truth." This sloka appears in the second chapter (the chapter on falsity) of Gaudapada's Karika (a commentary on the Mandukya Upanishad). It means that really there is no dissolution and no creation. There is no bondage, no one doing spiritual practices, no one seeking spiritual liberation and no one who is liberated. One who is established in the Self, sees this by his knowledge of Reality.

Swami Madhavathirta: Is not surrender the chief sadhana?

Maharshi: The sadhana of surrender is accepted no doubt. But when surrender is complete, there will be no distinction. Often when a disciple gets initiation into a mantra from a Guru and believes that he has surrendered, his surrender is not real. In surrender, one has to give up one's mind, and after the mind is given away, there will be no duality of any kind. He who remains separate from God has not surrendered.

Swami Madhavathirta: If all actions and their results are surrendered to God, will the mind be controlled or not?

Maharshi: By doing so, the heart will be purified but the mind will not die. Suppose a drunkard thinks that he has surrendered his karma and its fruits to God, and in his drunken state, if he commits a mistake and someone beats him with a stick for that mistake, he must surrender this beating also to God. But no one acts like that. His state changes at the time he gets the beating. Thus by surrender, the mind is not completely destroyed.

Swami Madhavathirta: It is believed that if we surrender to Guru or God, then the reality of the individual goes away, and in exchange we get the support of a bigger better Reality and Divine power shines in us.

Maharshi: To expect to receive a bigger Divine power after surrendering is not the true attitude of surrender.

(From the chapter "Conversation with Bhagavan II" in "Surpassing Love and Grace")

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Re: Conversation between Ramana Maharshi and Swami Madhavathirta
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2010, 08:39:11 AM »

Dear prasanth,

Many devotees during Bhagavan's time and even today, many seekers
are thinking that surrender is quite easy.  True Surrender is definitely not so. It is as difficult as self inquiry.  We are all capable of partial
surrenders and think that we have surrendered.  It is self deception.
In total surrender, there is no mind, no ego no I-thought at all.  There is only He, Brahman or the Self.  Then at that point of time what to ask and what to get and from whom to get?

Saint Arunagiri Nathar sings in Kandar Anubhuti:

I am thinking Maya is not there, maya will not affect me.
I only surrender to You to make it true. 
Please forgive all my misdeeds and give your Grace to surrender.
O Muruga who adorns garlands on your chest with twelve graceful shoulders and hands!

Even to convert the partial surrender to total surrender, one needs
Grace from Bhagavan Ramana.

Once some devotee quoted the old Tamil saying, "That without Him, not an atom will move."

Bhagavan Ramana, even here does not accept duality.  How can there be He and then the atom to move?  He corrected saying:
Without Him, no movement.  The movement is His own, His own atom, which is inseparable from Him. The movement or manifesting power is His Sakti, the concorporate Unnamulai.

Bhagavan Ramana also says in Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai, Verse 7:-

Without changing Yourself into a stranger, and running away from me, sit firmly in my mind, O Arunachala!

Arunachala Siva.