The Old Forum dedicated to Arunachala and Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi

Ancient texts => Tripura Rahasya and other ancient works => Topic started by: Jyoti on April 06, 2012, 04:59:33 AM

Title: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Jyoti on April 06, 2012, 04:59:33 AM
Where can I find an English Bhagavad Gita translation online that is not translated by ISKCON?
I try to find out about 12.5, the translation I read is:
Quote
For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied.
I suspect this to be the ISKCON interpretation.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: vishnave on April 07, 2012, 01:27:12 PM
hello,

you can find some translation here :

http://202.3.77.102/acquia/?q=node/20

Nasmate
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Jyoti on April 07, 2012, 01:28:29 PM
Thank you very much.  :)
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 07, 2012, 02:06:45 PM
Vishnave,
Thanks very much for that link.
Jyoti/Friends,
This is how swami GambirAnanda's(Ramakrishna Mutt)Translation goes and it does not differ significantly from the ISKON one perhaps:
Gita ,Chapter12,Verse 5:
Quote
For them who have their minds attached to the Unmanifested the struggle is greater; for, the Goal which is the Unmanifest is attained with difficulty by the embodied ones

This is indeed the position of all Great ones.Sri Ramakrishna has said exactly the same thing.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Quote
"To follow jnanayoga in this age is also very difficult. First, a man's life depends entirely
on food. Second, he has a short span of life. Third, he can by no means get rid of bodyconsciousness;
and the Knowledge of Brahman is impossible without the destruction of
body-consciousness. The jnani says: 'I am Brahman; I am not the body. I am beyond hunger
and thirst, disease and grief, birth and death, pleasure and pain.' How can you be a jnani if
you are conscious of disease, grief, pain, pleasure, and the like? A thorn enters your flesh,
blood flow from the wound, and you suffer very badly from the pain; but nevertheless, if
you are a jnani you must be able to say: 'Why, there is no thorn in my flesh at all. Nothing
is the matter with me'

We know how the above description fits Bhagavan -He literally had thorns in his feet and when someone offered to pick them out Bhagavan coolly asked him-'The New one or the Old one'!

This is not to discourage anyone doing self -enquiry but the order of one-pointedness and freedom from Body-Consciousness(The Characteristic stamp of all embodied beings)  that is called for is clearly delineated.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 10, 2012, 04:44:24 PM
Friends,
I warmly recommend Swami Chidbhavanda's Gita with commentary.This can be purchased from Sri Ramakrishna Mutt.It is available in Tamil and English and is quite a fat tome.Yet it is immensely readable.It has a wonderful transliteration so that one can follow the Original text,and a good translation and a wonderful commentary.It is quite cheap as well.

I have to say however that my own favourite is The Essays on the Gita by Sri Aurobindo.None of the speakers that I have heard (includes Swami Ranganathananda,Chinmayananda,Sadhu Parthasarathy)came anywhere close to the breadth and sweep of Sri Aurobindo's vision and elucidation of the Gita.I came to know about the ' Essays on the Gita' of Sri Aurobindo as I found it mentioned as an excellent choice in Swami Prabhavananda's  (along with Christopher Isherwood)translation.The Essays on the Gita by Sri Aurobindo can be downloaded from:
http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/writings.php

One of the best books on the Great Tamil work of mAnikkavAchakar-TiruvAchakam is also by Swami Chidbhavananda.This ,of-course is available only in Tamil and is a superb work.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 10, 2012, 05:17:18 PM
Dear Ravi,

The Chidbhavananda's translation and commentary on Srimad Bhagvad Gita and Tiruvachakam, raise nostalgic memories in me.

When I went to Tiruparaithurai, where his Sri Ramakrishna Tapovanam, is there, I first purchased these two books, say, sometimes
in late 1970s. Each book was costing Rs 5 only. Wonderful purchases!  Nice books with upanishad mantrams annexed under many
slokas. I have not read Sri Aurobindo's but these two books really helped me a lot to understand both these scriptures.  I checked
up in T'malai just for curiosity in the Asramam book stall. These books cost each Rs 160.00.  India has come a long way in its inflation!

As regards publication of Sri Ramakrishna Math, Gambhirananda's translation and commentary according to me are the best.
The editions of Gorakpur  Gita press and ISKCON give interpretations according to qualified non dualism. 

Arunachala Siva.
 
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 10, 2012, 05:23:16 PM
Friends,
An excerpt from Sri Aurobindo's 'The Essays on The Gita' ,from the opening chapter where Sri Aurobindo sets forth the way we can approach the study of this great scripture:
Quote
"I hold it therefore of small importance to extract from the
Gita its exact metaphysical connotation as it was understood
by the men of the time,—even if that were accurately possible.
That it is not possible, is shown by the divergence of the original
commentaries which have been and are still being written upon
it; for they all agree in each disagreeing with all the others,
each finds in the Gita its own system of metaphysics and trend
of religious thought.
Nor will even the most painstaking and
disinterested scholarship and the most luminous theories of the
historical development of Indian philosophy save us from inevitable
error. But what we can do with profit is to seek in the
Gita for the actual living truths it contains, apart from their
metaphysical form, to extract from it what can help us or the
world at large and to put it in the most natural and vital form
and expression we can find that will be suitable to the mentality
and helpful to the spiritual needs of our present-day humanity.
No doubt in this attempt we may mix a good deal of error born
of our own individuality and of the ideas in which we live, as
did greater men before us, but if we steep ourselves in the spirit
of this great Scripture and, above all, if we have tried to live in
that spirit, we may be sure of finding in it as much real truth
as we are capable of receiving as well as the spiritual influence
and actual help that, personally, we were intended to derive
from it
. And that is after all what Scriptures were written to
give; the rest is academical disputation or theological dogma.
Only those Scriptures, religions, philosophies which can be thus
constantly renewed, relived, their stuff of permanent truth constantly
reshaped and developed in the inner thought and spiritual
experience of a developing humanity, continue to be of living
importance to mankind
. The rest remain as monuments of the
past, but have no actual force or vital impulse for the future."

Sri Aurobindo launches into the spirit of the Gita not as a 'follower' who adheres to the beaten track,  but as an explorer on a voyage of discovery .His long winding style of writing may take some time to get used to,but the moment we get used to it,we are treated to some of the loftiest soarings of inspiration.
One of the most wonderful aspects of his writing is the balance and sense of proportion of the plethora of ideas and approaches that the Gita abounds in.It is very easy for the Practitioners of Karma Yoga to give a slant to it and say that it emphasized Karma yoga;Similiarly the Vedantins could give it an emphasis on the AjAta Vada thoughts that it might contain as well as the Jnana aspects;The Bhaktas may give it a slant by quoting some famous verses and say that ultimately favours Bhakti and surrender.Sri Aurobindo avoids all these biases and beautifully brings out the synthesis and breadth and depth of this unparalleled Song-celestial.Truly a magnificient reading.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 10, 2012, 05:51:35 PM
Subramanian,
Yes indeed.The Ramakrishna tapovanam was my favourite haunt during the weekends(College days)in the seventies.The Handpound rice(brown in colour) that they serve for lunch and the simple satvic side dishes were a delight.I had the rare opportunity to have lunch with Swami Chidbhavananda!After lunch I accompanied him to his room on the First floor.Swamiji just rested and he said that after food,it is a good idea to just lie down on one side-and not to fall asleep.He said that it allows the blood flow to the stomach and aids digestion.I still recall the wonderful gaze of the Swami,it was a little turned upwards and seemingly on the Ajna chakra,between the Eyebrows.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 10, 2012, 06:25:32 PM
Dear Ravi,

Nice information. I have only seen Sri Chidbhavananda but not moved with him quite closely those days. I have also not taken
the sattvic food of that Tapovanam. He was a great Jnani. I think he was first in Sri Ramakrishna Math, but came out for some
reasons which I do not know. 

His two books along with Tamizh Tauyumanavar songs are really a treasure.

I also get my nostalgic memories of my college days in Tiruchiirapalli.  Even though my father, with a small income suffered to bring us
up and my mother was always buying food provisions on credit, those were the golden days in my life.

Arunachala Siva.   
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 10, 2012, 06:50:29 PM
Subramanian,
Reading about your parents recalls to my mind-mAtru devO Bhava,Pitru DevO BhavA-They have bequeathed you the priceless treasure of spiritual aspiration that has lead you to the lotus feet of Sri Bhagavan.What if they were poor ,truly they must have been Rich in spiritual and Dharmic values.
Yes,swami Chidbhavananda broke away from the R K Mutt -This was on account of difference in outlook only,and nothing by way of any serious dischord.
For one thing,Swamiji could never come to terms of agreement with the Mutt's decision to allow only Graduates as Brahmacharis and monks.Unlearned persons cannot take to monastic life and inducted into R K Mutt and Mission.
Swami Chidbhavananda felt that this is needless and wondered whether someone like  Sri Ramakrishna himself could gain admission,given these guidelines.On the R K Mutt front,they wanted to ensure that only people who could have otherwise made a living and fit to stand on their own feet -These alone should be given the opportunity in case they choose to join the Mutt;Or else there may be weaklings who may try to gain entry in order to avoid the grind of the world.
There were other such difference in ideologies that made him break away from the parent organization.
Yes,Swamiji's commentaries on The wonderful Songs of ThAyumAnavar are a very good reference.The Ramakrishna Tapovanam is Ramnad district takes care of the Places associated with ThAyumanavar just before he passed away.I Understand that thAyumAnavar's samadhi is also taken care of by the Tapovanam.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 10, 2012, 08:26:10 PM
Dear Ravi,

Thanks for your sentiments.  Tayumanavar's Samadhi is on the outskirts of Ramanathapuram Town, a semi urban area called Lakshmi
Puram. He attained Samadhi (videha kaivalyam) in the year 1783 A.D.  Subhakrithu Varsham, Pushya month, Visaka Nakshatram.
His year of birth is estimated to be AD 1703 and he was born in Tiruchirapalli.

As you rightly said the Samadhi premises are maintained by Sri Ramakrishna Tapovanam. 

Arunachala Siva.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 12, 2012, 11:51:56 PM
uday,
In reading the books written by Great ones, one comes directly in touch with their consciouness.This is what Sri Nolini kanta gupta says on how to read Sri Aurobindo's writings:
Quote
There are two things: studying and reading; I made a distinction between the two. To study Sri Aurobindo is ― I won’t say fruitless, that is too strong a word, but it can only be an aid or a supplementary way. Study means: you take the text, you understand mentally each word and phrase; if you don’t understand, you take a dictionary and try to catch the external meaning expressed by the words. That may be neces­sary but it is not the way to approach their works.

Simply to read them in the right way is sufficient. Read, it does not matter what you understand and what you do not, simply read and wait in an expectant silence. In studying you approach them with your external mind, your external intel­ligence. But what is there in the text is beyond your mind, beyond your intelligence. And to understand mentally means you drive your intellect forward into the thing. It is an effort and takes you only to the outside of the thing. It is an exercise of your brain, developed in that way, but it doesn’t take you very far.

Instead of that, suppose you could keep quiet, silence your mind, and only read, without unduly trying to understand, and wait for what is there in the text to enter into you. Instead of your intelligence driving forward, pushing forward and trying to catch the thing, let the thing come into you; for what is there in their writings is not words and phrases, dead material, it is something very living, something conscious, that they have expressed in the words, phrases and the sound and rhythm. And I may tell you that each sentence anywhere, not to speak of Savitri, is a living being with whom you have to make acquain­tance ― not that you understand or are able to explain, but it is a living being, an entity, a friend, even a Lover whom you have to know. And your attempt in that way will be rewarded. You will enjoy much more. You may ask: “Just because I open a book and read, how can what are in the lines come to me?” But I say they are living entities ― if you approach in the right spirit, they come into you. The consciousness, the being in each line comes to you. And you find how beautiful it is. This is­ an approach of love, not of the intellect to understand and explain

This is an immersive experience. Most of the persons who give talks on the Gita are only sharing 'thoughts' ,what they 'learnt'.I have always found it better to read anything without commentary-The Power of the original utterance is there.One may initially take help from commentaries.

"swadhyaya pravachanabhyam na pramaditavyam"-Do Not neglect self study and exposition-Taittriya upanishad.

You ask about Sri Aurobindo-No,he does not admit Sankara's philosophy of mayavada.Sri Aurobindo's integral Yoga does not consider the Manifestation of the phenomenal world as a Dream,unreal,etc.It will not be possible to cover the differences here.His marvellous 'Essays on the Gita' can be downloaded from this site:
http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/writings.php (http://www.sriaurobindoashram.org/ashram/sriauro/writings.php)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 08:12:32 AM
udai/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from Sri Aurobindo's ' Essays on the Gita',where the Master writes about the Divine Teacher of the Gita,the avatar:
Quote
India has from ancient times held strongly a belief in the
reality of the Avatara, the descent into form, the revelation of
the Godhead in humanity. In the West this belief has never really
stamped itself upon the mind because it has been presented
through exoteric Christianity as a theological dogma without
any roots in the reason and general consciousness and attitude
towards life. But in India it has grown up and persisted as a
logical outcome of the Vedantic view of life and taken firm root
in the consciousness of the race. All existence is a manifestation
of God because He is the only existence and nothing can be
except as either a real figuring or else a figment of that one
reality. Therefore every conscious being is in part or in some
way a descent of the Infinite into the apparent finiteness of
name and form. But it is a veiled manifestation and there is
a gradation between the supreme being of the Divine and the
consciousness shrouded partly or wholly by ignorance of self
in the finite. The conscious embodied soul is the spark of the
divine Fire and that soul in man opens out to self-knowledge as
it develops out of ignorance of self into self-being. The Divine
also, pouring itself into the forms of the cosmic existence, is
revealed ordinarily in an efflorescence of its powers, in energies
and magnitudes of its knowledge, love, joy, developed force of
being,3 in degrees and faces of its divinity. But when the divine
Consciousness and Power, taking upon itself the human form
and the human mode of action, possesses it not only by powers
and magnitudes, by degrees and outward faces of itself but out
of its eternal self-knowledge, when the Unborn knows itself and
acts in the frame of the mental being and the appearance of
birth, that is the height of the conditioned manifestation; it is
the full and conscious descent of the Godhead, it is the Avatara.

We may now see what Sri Ramakrishna says in The Gospel :

Quote
Different manifestations of the Absolute
"But the Nitya and the Lila are the two aspects of the same Reality. As I have said before, it
is like the roof and the steps leading to it. The Absolute plays in many ways: as Isvara, as
the gods, as man, and as the universe. The Incarnation is the play of the Absolute as man.
Do you know how the Absolute plays as man? It is like the rushing down of water from a
big roof through a pipe; the power of Satchidananda-nay, Satchidananda Itself-descends
through the conduit of a human form as water descends through the pipe.
Only twelve
sages, Bharadvaja and the others, recognized Rama as an Incarnation of God. Not everyone
can recognize an Incarnation.

I have given an excerpt from 'Essays on The Gita' as a sample.Sri Aurobindo did Gita sadhana when he was in the alipore jail(around 1908 or so).He experienced  Krishna and all the insights are through this sadhana and not learnt by reading anyone else's commentary.
Sri Ramakrishna says:
Quote
Futility of mere reasoning
(To M.) "I do see God directly. What shall I reason about? I clearly see that He Himself has
become everything; that He Himself has become the universe and all living beings
.
"But without awakening one's own inner consciousness one cannot realize the Allpervading
Consciousness. How long does a man reason? So long as he has not realized
God. But mere words will not do. As for myself, I clearly see that He Himself has become
everything. The inner consciousness must be awakened through the grace of God. Through
this awakening a man goes into samadhi. He often forgets that he has a body. He gets rid of
his attachment to 'woman and gold' and does not enjoy any talk unless it is about God.
Worldly talk gives him pain. Through the awakening of the inner consciousness one
realizes the All-pervading Consciousness."
The discussion came to a close. Sri Ramakrishna said to M.: "I have observed that a man
acquires one kind of knowledge about God through reasoning and another kind through
meditation; but he acquires a third kind of Knowledge about God when God reveals
Himself to him, His devotee
. If God Himself reveals to His devotee the nature of Divine
Incarnation-how He plays in human form-, then the devotee doesn't have to, reason about
the problem or need an explanation. Do you know what it is like? Suppose a man is in a
dark room. He goes on rubbing a match against a match-box and all of a sudden light
comes. Likewise, if God gives us this flash of divine light, all our doubts are destroyed.
Can one ever know God by mere reasoning?
"

Namaskar.


Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Nagaraj on April 13, 2012, 11:54:06 AM
Dear Sri Ravi, Friends,

Regarding this question about whether both, nonduality and qualified nonduality are valid,

i came with this discernment that what Sri Ramakrishna has conveyed is like a Palindrome. A palindrome is a word, phrase, number, or other sequence of units that may be read the same way in either direction. For example: LIRIL

Ultimatley, there is no difference, it is the same, only the way we see, alone changes, but that which is, alone is, without any change! Hence both are valid, from point of view. Both see the same!

Infact, on some scrutiny, Palindrome, has been a significant concept in our vedic contemplation over the centuries.

Jnana Sambandhar has composed Palindromic devotional poetry:

யாமாமாநீ யாமாமா யாழீகாமா காணாகா
காணாகாமா காழீயா மாமாயாநீ மாமாயா


It refers to Shiva as the incomparable God, the one who plays the Veena, the beautiful one adorned with snakes, the one who destroyed Kama, whose abode is Sirkazhi, who also appears as Vishnu, and beseeches him (Shiva) to rid the devotee of impurities.

This Sanskrit poem was written by "nandi-ghanta kavis" in kanda style, by Ramaswamy Dikshitar, father of Muthuswamy Dhikshitar:

सारस नयना घन जघ
नारचित रतार कलिक हर सार रसा
सार रसारह कलिकर
तारत चिरनाघ जनघ नायनसरसा |


Some popular english palindromes:

‘Madam, I am Adam’.

“First Ladies rule the State and state the rule: ladies first” .

 :D

I have used the example of a glass tumbler half filled with water, where one sees that it is half filled, and the other sees it as half empty.

So, there is really, no difference, between any of the Siddhantas, I strongly believe so. All are valid.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 12:40:39 PM
Nagaraj,

Quote
"So, there is really, no difference, between any of the Siddhantas, I strongly believe so. All are valid"

I completely agree.

"i came with this discernment that what Sri Ramakrishna has conveyed is like a Palindrome. A palindrome is a word, phrase, number, or other sequence of units that may be read the same way in either direction. For example: LIRIL"

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Quote
Faith and self-surrender
Two things are necessary for the realization of God; faith and self-surrender. Man is
ignorant by nature. Errors are natural to him
. Can a one-seer pot hold four seers of milk?
Whatever path you may follow, you must pray to God with a restless heart. He is the Ruler
of the soul within. He will surely listen to your prayer if it is sincere. Whether you follow
the ideal of the Personal God or that of the Impersonal Truth, you will realize God alone,
provided you are restless for Him
. A cake with icing tastes sweet whether you eat it straight
or sidewise
.
Palindrome!
That one by Jnana sambandar is indeed wonderful.

Yet,I will have to say that in the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna,there is a seed of 'affirmation' of the manifestation instead of the Negation of the phenomena,through a witdrawal into Nirvana.Sri Aurobindo takes this forward even further in his Integral Yoga.I will post from his letters that clearly mention this,as also I will post from Sri Ramakrishna's sayings that points to it.I will not be drawn into any discussion or debate on this.I will state it for what it is.
My position on these things is that whatever we may have heard or learnt till now,counts for nothing.Just carry on with the sadhana and what God reveals to us is what matters-not what Sri Ramakrishna or sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo or any other has said!We may make use of all these but cannot bind ourselves by any of these.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 12:52:20 PM
Udai,
Understanding begins when mind falls quiet.
you quote-"Dvaita Mulam Aho Dhukkam ---> Ashtavakra Gita."
I will quote from 'I am That':
Quote
Q: Can there be happiness in unity? Does not all happiness imply necessarily contact, hence duality?
M: There is nothing wrong with duality as long as it does not create conflict. Multiplicity and variety without strife is joy. In pure consciousness there is light. For warmth, contact is needed. Above the unity of being is the union of love. Love is the meaning and purpose of duality.

Namaskar.

Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 01:36:30 PM
udai,
Quote
"But when it comes to scriptures, one needs the aid of bhasyam.
otherwise its not easy to understand upanishads , gita etc"

If we actually get back to the upanishadic period,like say satyakama Jabala or Swetaketu,-They were just given hints and were left free to observe and understand-No Bashyams ever existed.These belonged to the later day era .Back then it was simply the seed thought or suggestion that was offered by the Guru and this grew up on the Disciple and lead him to Truth.

Today,there is so much of a deluge of lectures,talks,etc-that most people are full of other's thoughts.No questions are asked.Answers are discussed!Where is the possibility of any discovery in this sort of a hothouse?
None of the Great Masters ever considered these Bhashyams necessary-neither Sri Ramakrishna nor sri Bhagavan.I certainly do not find any need for it,although I occasionally attend a few talks.The only speaker that I have found is simple,yet experiential is Sri Nochur Venkatraman.His talks do not follow any laid down beaten tracks,or a set of logical exposition like a physics class.
I find that his talks are punctuated with pregnant silence and he clearly asks the audience not to take notes and bring the mind into play.

Those who do feel that they require the crutches of commentaries and talks may certainly take recourse,but to say that everybody needs them is not correct.I certainly do not need!
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 02:02:44 PM
Friends,
We had a discussion regarding the Study of Scriptures in David's Blog.Those interested may visit:
http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2008/10/through-knowledge-or-through-practice.html (http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2008/10/through-knowledge-or-through-practice.html)

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Nagaraj on April 13, 2012, 02:27:00 PM
Yet,I will have to say that in the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna,there is a seed of 'affirmation' of the manifestation instead of the Negation of the phenomena,through a witdrawal into Nirvana.Sri Aurobindo takes this forward even further in his Integral Yoga.I will post from his letters that clearly mention this,as also I will post from Sri Ramakrishna's sayings that points to it.I will not be drawn into any discussion or debate on this.I will state it for what it is.

My position on these things is that whatever we may have heard or learnt till now,counts for nothing.Just carry on with the sadhana and what God reveals to us is what matters-not what Sri Ramakrishna or sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo or any other has said!We may make use of all these but cannot bind ourselves by any of these.
Namaskar.

Dear Sri Ravi,

This, I am 100% in agreement with you. Yes, there is a seed of 'affirmation' of the manifestation instead of the Negation of the phenomena,through a witdrawal into Nirvana. This is topic I have raised on some couple occasions, but, it does not fall in our realms of discussions. 

Some excerpts:

It is more to do with OUR OWN EXPERIENCES. I have observed at least most of us in this forum (just my own personal observation) including my self, that we all actually side towards the philosophy of Ramanujacharya even though we talk about Advaita and much less towards Advaita at experiential levels! We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed. We stand where Ramanuja come to conclusion. and we are caught in a pathless ground, waiting for eternity. There is a need for understanding here.

Our experiences of reality, at least by our views posted so far here (own views, not what Bhagavan has said or not what Shankara has said) By our own experiential knowledge, it can be inferred that we all stand in Sri Ramanujacharya's philosophy. This, on the other hand, doesn't give a peace of mind yet (atleast to myself) as extensively reading Advaita literature of Shankara and others.

There is a fine line in what Shankara has said and Ramanar has said. But They have been only one of their kinds. What Bhagavan & Shankara perhaps landed to is something which is description less or indescribable!


Those interested can ---->CLICK HERE (http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=6638.msg23136#msg23136)<---- to go the post


Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 02:38:03 PM
udai,
Quote
"Have you realized?"
I think we discussed this in David's Blog!I am not sure whether it was you but it does look like that!
As I said that ,I am not interested in discussions.
Just one thing I will say-As long as one is thinking 'I am doing Sadhana'-one has not even began doing it!
Sadhana begins only when one finds that 'Sadhana is done not by oneself but for oneself'.

It is only when the mind falls quiet and we perceive the Divine working in us-it is the Divine that does the sadhana-it is only then that we can understand these things and see them for what they are.

You have extrapolated what I have said as to mean that Guru is not required.All that I have said is that scriptural learning is not of any great help.Those who find a need may go for it.I certainly do not need them.

Namaskar.

Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Hari on April 13, 2012, 02:46:21 PM
Quote
'Sadhana is done not by oneself but for oneself'.

Very enlightening statement, Sri Ravi. That's it. We cannot do anything by our own. The Divine Grace is Which do Its work in us. We cannot do anything just because we want it. Even when work very hard and earn money It is Divine Grace Which has done it. There are many people working hard but don't earn money.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 02:57:09 PM
udai,
How do we know that we are  not Hungry?When the Stomach does not complain,is in't it!Same here.No complaints!There is no such need.We are taking home food,so no need to go to restaurants!
Carry on with sadhana.We will be given to understand.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 02:59:56 PM
udai,
You are asking -Why Am I Reading The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna?
I have already answered it.Not to gain Knowledge but to be in the company of the Master.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 03:12:39 PM
udai,
Unless we have a quiet mind,we will not be in a position to understand.
you are now trying to catch me on the wrong foot!Let us see!
"you can say reading Ashtavakra gita you get the company of Ashtavakra , therefore its important"
I have already posted on the difference between Studying and Reading.
I have also posted about Chaitanya meeting the devotee listening to The Bhagavad Gita.
All I am saying is simple:You do not need an interpreter for a Love Story!
This is what is to be understood.In case you have some sincere doubts,I am open for discussion.I do not serve curiosity.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Hari on April 13, 2012, 03:21:54 PM
Quote
Sadhana is always done by a "Person"
who has doership.
One who has no doership, does not need sadhana.

Of course Udaiji. You didn't understand me. My point is that nothing happens just because we want it or just because we have done some things. It is God's decision. The person is there, sadhana is done. But it's fruits are by God's mercy. Many people want to become christian monks for example (I give this example because Christian world and Muslim world is where I live) but they can't. They want to not think about their families, about delicious food, sex and so on but they can't. We cannot nothing by ourselves. Even Buddha has had Gurus (Guru is God incarnate). Many people say "I will do this or that and the result is certain". It is certain but if it is God's Will and He decides when and how. There is no recipe. Everything is in God's hands. If He decides He can give you liberation right now. But can you say "I will be free in 1, 2 or 10 years because of my sadhana". This is what I wanted to tell. Otherwise I absolutely agree with you about sadhana.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Hari on April 13, 2012, 03:31:03 PM
Quote
It is more to do with OUR OWN EXPERIENCES. I have observed at least most of us in this forum (just my own personal observation) including my self, that we all actually side towards the philosophy of Ramanujacharya even though we talk about Advaita and much less towards Advaita at experiential levels! We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed. We stand where Ramanuja come to conclusion. and we are caught in a pathless ground, waiting for eternity. There is a need for understanding here.

Our experiences of reality, at least by our views posted so far here (own views, not what Bhagavan has said or not what Shankara has said) By our own experiential knowledge, it can be inferred that we all stand in Sri Ramanujacharya's philosophy. This, on the other hand, doesn't give a peace of mind yet (atleast to myself) as extensively reading Advaita literature of Shankara and others.

There is a fine line in what Shankara has said and Ramanar has said. But They have been only one of their kinds. What Bhagavan & Shankara perhaps landed to is something which is description less or indescribable!

Dear, Nagaraj. You have seen very important truth. Every so called "advaitin" or "follower of jnana marga" is actually "visishtadvatin". Only visishtadvaita can combine monism with duality (relative world).
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: prasanth_ramana_maharshi on April 13, 2012, 06:20:55 PM
I agree with udai garu that interpretation of scripture study is surely required for many.

Moreover scripture study is must and obviously many here benefitted from it.

Even bhagavan ramana read many scripture books as well as english books and glanced newspapers on daily basis.

Famous devotee Balarama reddy said that Bhagavan was familiar with, and had respect for, the classical English works. He had read many English books and would daily read an English newspaper. W. Y. Evans-Wentz had given Bhagavan copies of his published books, and of these books Bhagavan liked best Tibet's Great Yogi, Melarepa. He once requested to read it.

Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 13, 2012, 06:53:04 PM
But Sri Bhagavan's case was unique. He had the Self hood experience first.  Before that He had read only some Bible lessons,
Periyapuranam and some Tayumanvar songs.  All that He studied in Tiruvannamalai was after His realization. Again, these were
only to clarify doubts for others from any particular scripture.  He describes this in Verse 58 of Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai.

Arunachala Siva. 
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: prasanth_ramana_maharshi on April 13, 2012, 08:13:56 PM
udai garu and subramanian garu i agree with your view points sir.

Bhagavan started reading only after he got realisation and as udai agru stated bhagavan is like ramanujan and an exception.

Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 09:47:22 PM
Nagaraj/Friends,

Quote
"It is more to do with OUR OWN EXPERIENCES. I have observed at least most of us in this forum (just my own personal observation) including my self, that we all actually side towards the philosophy of Ramanujacharya even though we talk about Advaita and much less towards Advaita at experiential levels! We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed."

Yes,There is no point in talking about Advaita.The Advaita anubhuti is something that has to happen;it cannot be a result of any striving ,although striving is needed.All striving is only to allow the working of the Yoga shakti or Grace to do the work.We need to cooperate by our receptivity and trust.


The Right attitude that a seeker should have is not to be bothered about 'advaita' or any other 'ultimate' grandiose goal.Just be like the person who did not make his choice in the 'Dyer and his tub' parable of Sri Ramakrishna.Here it is:
"A certain man had a tub. People would come to him to have their clothes dyed. The tub
contained a solution of dye. Whatever colour a man wanted for his cloth, he would get by
dipping the cloth in the tub. One man was amazed to see this and said to the dyer, 'Please
give me the dye you have in your tub
.' "


What is it that one gains through satsangha?The Master says:
Quote
"What are the spiritual disciplines that give the mind its upward direction? One learns all
this by constantly living in holy company.

Ultimately it is smarana.As Saint thyAgaraja sang-'smarane sukamu rama namam'.This is all that is needed if one develops a taste for it.

In The Gospel,one of the most inspirational passage ,to me,is this:
Quote
If you meditate on an ideal you will acquire its nature. If you think of God day and night,
you will acquire the nature of God. A salt doll went into the ocean to measure its depth. It
became one with the ocean. What is the goal of books or scriptures? The attainment of God.
A man opened a book belonging to a sadhu. He saw the word 'Rama' written on every page.
There was nothing else.

Namaskar.


Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 13, 2012, 10:04:59 PM
Nagaraj/Friends,
Quote
"We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed."
Missed commenting on this one.To think of knowing more than Sri Ramanujacharya!I do not consider that anyone else knows more than that-be it be Sri Sankara or Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo.We only need to bear in my mind that these are not 'individual' achievements.All Love,Knowledge are in God alone.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Nagaraj on April 14, 2012, 08:39:02 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote
"We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed."
Missed commenting on this one.To think of knowing more than Sri Ramanujacharya!I do not consider that anyone else knows more than that-be it be Sri Sankara or Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo.We only need to bear in my mind that these are not 'individual' achievements.All Love,Knowledge are in God alone.
Namaskar.

The spirit was surely not like "trying to know more than Sri Ramanujacharya"  :D or just any body else...  I was trying to observe that we are getting lost in "Tatvas" unconsciously, we somehow refuse to move on, and stay put with tatvas. We all would have experienced it, most times, after some heavy discussions on Tatvas, no matter how great it may be, when we becomre fatigued out, even sleeping for some time, would bestow such peace, just shutting down the computer and being, would give such immense peace. truth itself was spoiling Truth. Knwoledge is bigger ignorance than ignorance itself.

It is not even about achievements, that i was observing about. It is the real paradox that i have observed,  that has landed in a state of complete "not knowing"

Like what Socratus has said "All that i know is the fact of my not knowing"

How insignificant we are, in the scheme of things, how insignificant we are before the "tatvas"

Ultimatley, i truly believe it is peace alone that matters, even more than any scriptures, terms of truth, we have to be at peace with what ever is. What ever is, is, as it is. We have nothing to do with it.

The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
By this, and this only, we have existed.

(T S Eliiot)

Shanti Shanti Shanti :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Nagaraj on April 14, 2012, 08:45:00 AM
At some point, i see, perhaps discern, we have to even give up Our Guru with his teachings, and, just accept Him, without any baggage, plain, simple, as a perfect layman. He is our Guru, who takes away everything, even all knowledge...

I have observed, even seeing our Gurus as somebody of great knowledge, all knowing, great Brahma Jnani, Brahma Nishta etc... is in some ways problematic.

After knowing our Gurus, i guess, at some point when we are really, at peace, we should give away all our books and remain. Noo Tatvas, No Siddhantas, no nothing, No this, No that, just

Knowledge is great bondage...

theLivu guruvin thirumEni kANDal
theLivu guruvin thirunAmam ceppal
theLivu guruvin thiruvArththai kETTal
theLivu guruvuru cinthiththal thAnE.

Clarity is seeing the holy Body of guru;
Clarity is saying the holy Name of guru;
Clarity is listening to the holy Words of guru;
Clarity is contemplating on the holy Form of guru.

Do we need anything more? really?  But this makes so much sense only after realising the futility of all knowledge.

Like Chinmayananda says somewhere, one can only renounce only after one has earned millions... (not exact phrase) Before that what one has to renounce...  :)

Knowledge is worst than even ignorance... ignorance reveals itself instantly, but this knowledge-ignorance, hides iself as perfect knowledge...dangerous fellow is this knowledge-ignorance

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Nagaraj on April 14, 2012, 08:55:15 AM
Sri Ravi,

Are we ready yet, to accept that there is really nothing to do? the truth is so ordinary, that we are unable to accept the ordinary-ness of what is.

We want something more... we just are not content, "is that all, there should be something more to this" goes unconsciously...

"One goes through all sorts of austerities to become what one already is." - Bhagavan

Funny, as we don't want to accept this, until we travel, we do all those austerities, all those struggles, all those mental masturbation, all those games of knowledge and ignorance, etc...

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 14, 2012, 09:53:48 AM
Nagaraj/Friends,

Quote
"Are we ready yet, to accept that there is really nothing to do? the truth is so ordinary, that we are unable to accept the ordinary-ness of what is."

I do not subscribe to this view,because these  are  thoughts!We only need to reckon the immensity of this 'Ordinariness' which made the Upanishadic seer exclaim-'Vedahamehtam purusham mahantam,Aditya varnam Tamasah parastat'.Simply speaking,The Infinte is beyond the realms of 'Ordinary' and 'Extraordinary'.

Quote
Quote
"One goes through all sorts of austerities to become what one already is."-Sri Bhagavan
This has to be understood,not as a thought but experientially.It is not as if one came Back to where he started from.

Quote
Clarity is seeing the holy Body of guru;
Clarity is saying the holy Name of guru;
Clarity is listening to the holy Words of guru;
Clarity is contemplating on the holy Form of guru

Precisely.Here Tirumular is trying to point to what Clarity is.It is not clarity as we imagine clarity to be-'that the truth is so ordinary, that we are unable to accept the ordinary-ness of what is'!'

Quote
Knowledge is worst than even ignorance... ignorance reveals itself instantly, but this knowledge-ignorance, hides iself as perfect knowledge...dangerous fellow is this knowledge-ignorance
I have also been emphasizing the same.We may have seen the crow fluttering its wings rapidly to gain height and then perform a Glide(with its wings spread).It lands on a tree top in the smug belief that it has done a sortie of an Eagle.Little does it know that that the Eagle is gliding at will at a great Height,borne upward by buoyancy of the wind on its wings.Most aspirants imagine that they are in the 'Just be' state or 'There is nothing to be done',etc.I have seen learned Swamijis caught in this belief.This belief is propagated as 'Yajnya'.

I agree with you that Guru is a Tatva and personality cults are dangerous and detrimental.Devotion to the Guru is onething and admiration and attachment to the Guru is another.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Nagaraj on April 14, 2012, 10:19:28 AM
Dear Sri Ravi,

Do we realise, that the problem begins, this:

Quote
Simply speaking,The Infinte is beyond the realms of 'Ordinary' and 'Extraordinary'.

at putting the truth elsewhere, terming it as something, beyond ordinary and extra ordinary? We are in timeless search of this infinite.

This "beyond" thing is only the true real Maya. There is no beyond, nothing beyond, than what is now, here. This only is "Vasthvam"

Truth, happiness, everything is here, is its pristinity, only the demand for want of a higher better truth is the real problem.

I do not intend to term it as 'ordinary' but it is just done so to lay stress on the fact of the truth, not being something more than what is, here, as it is, and not something better than what currently is.

It discerns that the demand to search supercedes than the truth itself.

Salutations to Bhagavan
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 14, 2012, 10:37:01 AM
Nagaraj/Friends,
I have spoken about what little I know of.Please do not allow that to distract you.If you have found something better,please Go ahead.Godspeed to you.
Wishing you all the Very Best.
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: nonduel on April 14, 2012, 07:35:39 PM
The "just being state" and "doing".

Most aspirants imagine that they are in the 'Just be' state or 'There is nothing to be done',etc.I have seen learned Swamijis caught in this belief.This belief is propagated as 'Yajnya'.

The duality dilema!

It is true that there is no effort in just being, but at the same time you have to DO self-enquiry. It's a doing without effort!!
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Hari on April 14, 2012, 08:27:29 PM
All these talks are only because non of us want to surrender and inquire to one's Being. To some of you this may sound funny but it is true. I really hope all of you to understand me right. I don't judge or anything. I am just trying to help you sharing my thoughts (which of course may be wrong).

What I have in mind is that no matter what words or theories we share we are ignorant. The Knowledge all Saints are talking about, the so called jnana (Hindu), gnosis (Christians) or daat (Kabbalists) is to know our Self. If you do it no more questions will arise. All is the Self, all is God. There is no duality. In Guru Vachaka Kovai is stated:

Quote
47. This world which appears, concealing Self, is a mere dream, but when ‘concealed’ by Self, it remains as none other than Self.

48. This whole world of triads which deludes us, seeming to be an undisputable reality, is only the form of the Supreme Power [Chit-Shakti], which abides eternally as none other than the Supreme Self.

50. For those who never lose the True Knowledge of Self, which is the base of all sense-knowledge, the world also is nothing other than Self-Knowledge. But, how can an ordinary man, who has not gained Self-knowledge, understand the statement of Sages who, seeing through Jnana, say that the world is real?

51. Those who have given up worldly [i.e. sense-] knowledge and attachment to it, and who have destroyed the evil force of mind [i.e. Maya], thus gaining Supreme Self-Consciousness, alone can know the correct meaning of the statement, “The world is Real”.

The experience of the bhakta is the same as the experience of the jnani but they call it sometime in different way. Those who say that all is God do not contradict with jnanis who say that there is only the Self. Can you see? All our discussion is based on whether the world is real and according to the answer of this question - how to behave. None of us can understand the real jnani and the real bhakta. The Supreme Lord in the Form of Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita that Jnana yoga and Bhakti yoga lead to the same. If you don't believe in the Saints' words, believe in the Lord's.

The knowledge mentioned here is not intellectual but experiential. Non of us would have this knowledge if we are looking for it by the intellect.

As I said in the beginning the cause for all these conversations is our reslessness, of our mind bouncing here and there and not wanting to be drawn to the Source. It is like a man who have a toothache and fear of dentists and every day he says "I will go to the dentists later or tomorrow".

One of the cause for the lack of surrender is too little faith. Not to mention that many following jnana say that God or Guru is unreal. How one to surrender to a Person who he/she subconsciously consider unreal. In my opinion many choose jnana marga because of their fat ego because jnana teach "You are the Supreme" and ego only waits to hear that but not realizing that jnanis don't talk about it (the ego) but about the Atman.

Most of us more talk about Self-inqiury than practice it (I don't talk about you but generally). That again is because of the ego. It gets fatter because it considers itself that it knows the supreme path (jnana yoga) and the supreme method (Self-inquiry) by the Supreme Guru (Guru Ramana). It's getting fatter and fatter and fatter. But in reality we are falling down. We are just talking and do nothing. Even some "jnanis" justify their inactivity by saying "there is nothing to be done". This is wrong.

Analyze yourself, analyze where are you now. Stop saying "I am the Self. I am always realized". No, you are not.

Best wishes, ramana1359
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 14, 2012, 08:52:46 PM
nonduel/friends,

Quote
"It is true that there is no effort in just being, but at the same time you have to DO self-enquiry. It's a doing without effort!"

Yes,friend.This is a sign that the mind free from distractions is loving what it is doing.

Here are a few excerpts from the Gospel of sri Ramakrishna that shows what it means to 'Just be',to be in the state of jnana:
Quote
"To follow jnanayoga in this age is also very difficult. First, a man's life depends entirely
on food. Second, he has a short span of life. Third, he can by no means get rid of bodyconsciousness;
and the Knowledge of Brahman is impossible without the destruction of
body-consciousness
. The jnani says: 'I am Brahman; I am not the body. I am beyond hunger
and thirst, disease and grief, birth and death, pleasure and pain.' How can you be a jnani if
you are conscious of disease, grief, pain, pleasure, and the like? A thorn enters your flesh,
blood flow from the wound, and you suffer very badly from the pain; but nevertheless, if
you are a jnani you must be able to say: 'Why, there is no thorn in my flesh at all. Nothing
is the matter with me'

Quote
Jeevanmukta & Separation of body and soul
"He who has attained this Knowledge of Brahman is a jivanmukta, liberated while living in
the body. He rightly understand that the Atman and the body are two separate things. After
realizing God one does not identify the Atman with the body. These two are separate, like
the kernel and the shell of the coconut when its milk dries up. The Atman moves, as it
were, within the body. When the 'milk' of worldly-mindedness has dried up, one gets Selfknowledge.
Then one feels that Atman and body are two separate things. The kernel of a
green almond or betel-nut cannot be separated from the shell; but when they are ripe the
juice dries up and the kernel separates from the shell.
After the attainment of the
Knowledge of Brahman, the 'milk' of worldly-mindedness dries up.
"But it is extremely difficult to attain the Knowledge of Brahman. One doesn't get it by
merely talking about it. Some people feign it.
(Smiling) There was a man who was a great
liar; but, on the other hand, he used to say he had the Knowledge of Brahman. When
someone took him to task for telling lies, he said: 'Why, this world is truly like a dream. If
everything is unreal, then can truth itself be real? Truth is as unreal as falsehood.'" (All
laugh.)

Quote
"Once Krishnakishore asked me, 'Why have you cast off the sacred thread?' In those days
of God-vision I felt as if I were passing through the great storm of Aswin, and everything
had blown away from me. No trace of my old self was left. I lost all consciousness of the
world. I could hardly keep my cloth on my body, not to speak of the sacred thread!

The test of jnana is not whether 'I' is there or not.It is the absence of identification with the body.This is what Sri Bhagavan went through when he was in the patala linga when his body was eaten by insects and worms.It is what happened to sri Ramakrishna when he spent 6 months in the Nirvikalpa Samadhi ,totally unaware of his body.How Sri Bhagavan underwent surgery without any anaesthesia! How Sri Ramakrishna when down with Throat cancer,unable to even swallow Liquids could not bring himself to wish that the body should recover-How the Divine Mother(Sri Ramakrishna!)told him-'Is it not enough that you are eating through other mouths'!
I am not saying that all need to be like this-at the same time,it does give an idea of what Jnana or the state of 'summa Iru' is.This is the order of immensity.

There are many seekers who get caught on the way with a little peace ,a little vastness ,a little quietude-and they think that they have arrived.One only needs to consolidate this quietude and this is jnana for them.

This is why sri Bhagavan never taught the 'Just Be' teaching.He only stressed 'self-enquiry' and to trace the source of the Mind .

Similiarly Sri Ramakrishna narrated this parable:
Quote
The story of the wood-cutter
"Once upon a time a wood-cutter went into a forest to chop wood. There suddenly he met a
brahmachari. The holy man said to him, 'My good man, go forward.' On returning home the
wood-cutter asked himself, 'Why did the brahmachari tell me to go forward?' Some time
passed. One day he remembered the brahmachari's words. He said to himself, 'Today I shall
go deeper into the forest.' Going deep into the forest, he discovered innumerable sandalwood
trees. He was very happy and returned with cart-loads of sandal-wood. He sold them
in the market and became very rich.
"A few days later he again remembered the words of the holy man to go forward. He went
deeper into the forest and discovered a silver-mine near a river. This was even beyond his
dreams. He dug out silver from the mine and sold it in the market. He got so much money
that he didn't even know how much he had.
"A few more days passed. One day he thought: 'The brahmachari didn't ask me to stop at
the silver-mine; he told me to go forward.' This time he went to the other side of the river
and found a gold-mine. Then he exclaimed: 'Ah, just see! This is why he asked me to go
forward.'
"Again, a few days afterwards, he went still deeper into the forest and found heaps of
diamonds and other precious gems. He took these also and became as rich as the god of
wealth himself.
Go forward
"Therefore I say that, whatever you may do, you will find better and better things if only
you go forward. You may feel a little ecstasy as the result of japa, but don't conclude from
this that you have achieved everything in spiritual life. Work is by no means the goal of
life. Go forward, and then you will be able to perform unselfish work. But again I say that it
is most difficult to perform unselfish work. Therefore with love and longing in your heart
pray to God: 'O God, grant me devotion at Thy Lotus Feet and reduce my worldly duties.
Please grant me the boon that the few duties I must do may be done in a detached spirit.' If
you go still farther you will realize God.
You will see Him. In time you will converse with Him.
"

If we get stuck somewhere,we cannot throw the towel and call all this as unnecessary.It just means that we are striving in an egoistic way-we are still not recognizing the role of Grace.We are stuck on account of this.It is the wind of Grace that can carry us home.

Wishing you the very Best.

Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Ravi.N on April 14, 2012, 09:44:47 PM
Ramana,

Quote
"It is like a man who have a toothache and fear of dentists and every day he says "I will go to the dentists later or tomorrow"

 :) Looks like Toothache is linked with jnana! :)

There is a humorous anecdote that Sri Nochur Venkatraman narrated.It seems that one person came to him and enquired about the efficacy of Transcendental Meditation.Nochur told him that he only knew 'Dental Meditation' and this is truly effective.
'What is Dental Meditation?' asked the other person.
'It is what Sri Ramakrishna taught ' said Nochur and told him this saying of Sri Ramakrishna:
Quote
MASTER:"One can meditate even with eyes open. One can meditate even while talking. Take the
case of a man with toothache
.
TUTOR OF THE TAGORES: "Yes, sir. I know that very well." (All laugh.)
MASTER (smiling): "Yes, even when his teeth ache he does all his duties,but his mind is
on the pain. Likewise one can meditate with eyes open and while talking to others as well."
:)
Namaskar.
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Hari on April 14, 2012, 10:06:17 PM
Quote
:) Looks like Toothache is linked with jnana! :)

Yes, in the way that lack of jnana leads to samsara (toothache). We prefer to be in pain rather than follow Guru and His teachings (the dentist) and be free. We always excuse saying "Later or tomorrow". Most people pospone their sadhana all their life, others even forget about what they have promised to themselves to do. Others do it occasionally only when they feel sad, depressed or some dramatic event reminds them about cruelty of the world :)

Quote
MASTER:"One can meditate even with eyes open. One can meditate even while talking. Take the
case of a man with toothache.
TUTOR OF THE TAGORES: "Yes, sir. I know that very well." (All laugh.)
MASTER (smiling): "Yes, even when his teeth ache he does all his duties,but his mind is
on the pain. Likewise one can meditate with eyes open and while talking to others as well."

Really true. :)
Title: Re: Bhagavad Gita online
Post by: Subramanian.R on April 15, 2012, 01:40:34 PM
dear Ravi, Ramana,

Not a directly related story, but somewhat the same. Once a devotee asked Sri Bhagavan: Bhagavan! Can I swat the mosquito
that stings me during meditation?  Or should I leave it as it is?

Sri Bhagavan smilingly replied: You can swat the mosquito. For that act, mukti will not be denied to you. You can also leave
it as it is. For that act, mukti will not be given to you.  In true meditation, one will not even experience whether a mosquito
is sitting on your body and it is stinging you!


Arunachala Siva.