Author Topic: jiddu krishnamurthy  (Read 8491 times)

srkudai

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jiddu krishnamurthy
« on: September 08, 2008, 12:51:41 PM »
Hi Friends,
               :) most people are blind enough to think that what jk teaches is the same as ramana. there is lot of difference, jk suggests observation of mind and feelings ... ramana suggests placing attention on the self -- awarness.

i do not think jk's method really works.
does ramana not say that observation on mind is not the way in david godman's book ?

observation of the sense of i am within helps ... observation of mind may help to a certain extent but i do not think will lead to realease !

Comments invited. I do not think jk's method really would work.

Love!
Silence
« Last Edit: September 08, 2008, 12:59:46 PM by srkudai »

Subramanian.R

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 03:34:21 PM »
Dear srkudai,  There is an ocean of difference between Bhagavan
Ramana and JK.  But said to go into the source of mind by asking
Who am I? and merge in the Self.  He never asked to observe
the mind.  There is no mention about this differences in David
Godman's books.  There is one reference about JK in Be as You are.
When someone asked Bhagavan:  "...but JK says no Guru is
necessary..."  Bhagavan replied:  " How did he know it?  One
can say only after realizing and not before."  JK did not practise
what he said.  Recall the episode of Ms. Rosalind Rajagopal
after JK died.

Arunachala Siva. 

ramanaduli

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2008, 12:09:04 AM »
Dear sir,

I think jk started the vichar through the mind, and asked to see the mind's play.
Whereas Bhagavan realised He is the Universal self. and gave a formula to reach the self. ie. is who am I. If we follow behind the mind. we never reach our goal it is like keeping a theif at home only.  Mind is so tricky it gives more confusion only.


Ramanaduli

Subramanian.R

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2008, 10:50:08 AM »
Dear Ramanaduli,  JK did not teach vichar or enquiry.  He only
said to observe the mind and the thoughts.  Mere observations
would not quell or kill the mind.  Bhagavan says to  go to the
source of the mind or ego, that is Heart.  Bhagavan was an
example of highest conduct and simplicity.  JK was not.

Arunachala Siva. 

atmavichar100

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2012, 07:50:25 PM »
JK did not teach any specific technique but asked us to  enquire the motives behind why we do anything be it secular , spiritual etc .
For eg. is some one says I want to do some meditation ,spiritual sadhana , normally people will tell them to do Japa , read spiritual books , worship god etc . When you come to JK he will ask first "why do you want to do Meditation ?"  .
You may give any answer like say peace of mind etc and next he will ask you "Why you lost your peace of mind " and so on it goes backward .There is no right or wrong answer in this . You must investigate for yourself what is "true" for you . This sort of inner -investigation is quite difficult for most people as people want ready made replies and they will try it for a few days and again complain that is it is not working for them and they go to another teacher , another Guru , another technique etc .
Here J.Krishnamurti talks about self investigation in his own words .
Quote
Self Investigation is Hard Work - J.Krishnamurti
But, you see, that (i.e  self investigation ) is tremendously arduous; it is hard work, and you do not like hard work. You prefer an easy, indolent existence—earning a livelihood, accepting what comes, and just drifting along through life. Or, if you don’t do that, you practise some system, some form of compulsion, discipline. You get up every morning at 4 o’clock to meditate—by which you mean forcing yourself to concentrate, compelling your mind to conform to a particular pattern. You drill yourself incessantly, day after day, and that you consider hard work. But that, it seems to me, is a most childish way of working. It is not the work of a mature mind. By hard work I mean something totally different. It is hard work to examine every thought and feeling, every belief, without bringing in your own prejudices, without shielding yourself behind an idea, behind a conclusion, an explanation. It requires hard, clear thinking—which is real work. And most of us do not want to tackle that kind of work. We would rather accept a senseless belief, belong to an organized religion, go to the temple, the church, or the mosque, repeat some words and get a little sensation; and with these things we are satisfied.               
  - J. Krishnamurti

I have found JK's technique as mentioned above to be quite useful in helping me develop lot of clarity as it encourages me "to question " all my motives both outward as well as hidden inner motives . This sounds quite simple but quite difficult as we our  mind always refuses to investigate our own inner motives which are quite unpleasant .Poet Kannadasan written a song for a Tamil Movie "A person has nine things in his mind and has 80 things buried  inside his mind "

I am not comparing Bhagwan's Ramana's Vichara method and JK's method .I follow the investigative method of JK as given above and find it very useful and that is the vichara I use currently . Whether it leads to enlightenment /moksha /self realization etc I do not know but I have found lot of mental clarity in the same .It has helped me a lot in "decluttering" my mind and this "decluttering " is an ongoing process . The essence ( not the quote above which is from a different source ) of JK's method of vichara I found it in the book J.Krishnamurti: As I knew Him by Susunaga Weeraperuma when I visited Rishikesh in October 2010 for my own spiritual break and I consider it the most blissful moment in my life . After this insight , I was seeing JK's teachings from a different light .
JK had made a great impact on me spiritually but as I said I do not want to compare JK , Ramana ,Swami Sivananda etc . Each teacher had their own pointers for the people who came to them .I found the above pointer of JK quite valid for me and using it and find it effective .
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 08:00:16 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2012, 08:59:41 AM »
In fact, for a very long time , I was a "fan" :) of JK and his rebel friend UG - till I found those like Nisargadatta and Bhagawan and many others who have actually experienced the Truth and not just talking about it. The problem I find now - when I go back to JK is that JK considers mind as something to be investigated scientifically whereas according to Upanishads it is a non existent entity. As Acharya Swamigal says in Pratha Smarana Stotram - "Rajvam Bhujangamaiva Prathibhasitham vai". JK's teachings are like studying anatomy of a snake seen in rope. I can categorize and study the snake like "This is head, this is tail, this is poison teeth" etc. But actually there is only a rope :) :) - but no harm in studying the snake's anatomy.

And I dont want to talk about UG any more :)

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Jewell

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2012, 01:20:03 PM »
Dear friends, I will agree on this completly with Atmavichar. JK is using analytical investigation,analyzing every thought,feeling,impuls. But it is very hard to track Him,coz He deals with everything so deeply. Bhavagan is saying to us Do selfenquiry and see for yourself,and JK answers that question immediately,by himself. Anyway,that is the only difference I can see. For me JK teachings are very very helpful. But this,maybe,is not good thread to talk about that,coz it is devoted to the teachings of Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 01:31:46 PM by Jewell »

Subramanian.R

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2012, 02:17:45 PM »
Dear Jewell,

JK with all his profound knowledge did not live by it. Sri Bhagavan lived by what He taught. His Life and Teachings - both are
important. Whereas JK did something in last years of his life, which was not to be done for his stature. He had illicit relationship
with his disciple's wife.

Arunachala Siva. 

Jewell

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2012, 03:17:01 PM »
Dear Subramanian sir, I understand what You are telling me. But,somehow,i cant tell,for anything in life,that it is good or bad. Life is very complicated and colorfull,and who knows what are the reasons behind every action. I dont know His whole life,even His life at all,and i cant tell whay He did all that. Who know what really happened,whay it happened,how it happened... I love to say Strange are God ways. And,for me,the motive is more important that act,coz even good deed can have wrong motive behind it,and other way around. That dosnt mean we should do bad things!!! Only good,and in that way,right things. Anyway,i am more concerned with teachings,then with person. And can only compare the teachings,never Bhagavan with anyone. He is a Giant among Giants,like human,like Guru,like God. He will always have special place in my heart. One and Only is our Bhagavan Ramana.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2012, 03:22:02 PM by Jewell »

Subramanian.R

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2012, 04:00:30 PM »
Dear Jewell,

I am of the view that a Guru should live as per the societal norms, though a true Jnani is not bound by the rules of the society.
Suppose Sri Bhagavan had taken non vegetarian food, nothing would have caused his Self Realization to disappear. But He did
not do it because it was against the society in which He was living.  Similarly JK was born Indian and he had maintained celibacy
for nearly 6 to 7 decades. But he failed in a weak moment. The victim was not an unmarried girl, and if that had been so, he would
have jolly well married her, since people would not mistake.  I know one Swamiji of Math, in Madhava Sect in Karnataka, who was
a pontiff of a Math but could not control his senses. He voluntarily resigned his from pontiff-ship and married a girl and lived a
house holder's life, still upholding Madhwa philosophy and Madhwa's teachings and singing melodious songs on Krishna of Udupi.
This is a more graceful step. But JK did not do like that. The poor disciple's wife could not tell the truth during JK's life time and she
said later that she was to undergo an abortion due to this mischief. Her name is Rosalind and she was the wife of one Mr. Rajagopal,
an ardent devotee and first assistant of JK. If some one else had spread 'this news' no one would believe it. But it was told by
the victim herself. 

Arunachala Siva.           

Jewell

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2012, 12:36:58 AM »
Dear Subramanian sir, I understand. It is a sad story.

Vinod

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2012, 09:41:36 PM »
Dear Subramanian,

Not to question ur wisdom or to argue, yesterday I watched one episode of ramayan and I was fortunate enough to see a similar story and it is great coincidence. I am sure you know the story of Lord Indra seducing the wife of gauthama muni. If JK is hated for that act even Indra should be hated likewise. Isnt so? Infact JK is just a human like us!

I swear i never knew Indra's notorious act before and its only yesterday I have watched it and I am posting it here since it coincides with the matter and not to support the evil act

OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!

Hari

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2012, 10:44:50 PM »
Quote
I swear i never knew Indra's notorious act before and its only yesterday I have watched it and I am posting it here since it coincides with the matter and not to support the evil act. 

Dear Vinod. We are not here to judge. So I understand your point of view. Sri Krishna teaches us not to judge anything, but to accept everything as it is because He is the doer and we are the puppets. We must shun the habit to qualify everything as right and wrong, holy and unholy and so on. Dualistic thinking like that is a product of an overactive mind. We must realize that nothing happens because we want it or because we have caused it. This is a lie according to all Vedanta. We just 'gain' the 'feeling' that we are the doers. But this is wrong. Let investigate. For example you paint a beautiful picture. And you say "I did it". But do you. Your hand moved because of the muscles, they because of the specific neural activity. This specific neural activity is because of some combinations of substances, their transportation between neurons and specific reaction because of mediator-receptor complex. Scientists say that this is genetic. Let's be so. How does this genetic combination has been made? It is due to spermatozoa genetics and ovum genetics have come together. Their genetics is due to process called crossing-over which combines genetic information 'by chance' of the chromosome couples before their semireduction (23). What is the force which governs this? What is the force which governs and moves the neurtransmitters, electric signals, muscle contraction. What makes you want to paint? This force governs you and all other things - the thieves, murderers, prostitutes but also the saints, painters, actors, rishis, the bees, the tigers, the lotus, everything. This magnificent force is the God's Energy.

I don't think that anything can affect a jnani. If one is a Jnani, even such an act cannot change what He is. I don't know what Sri Krishnamurti has done actually. But it is a fact that his teachings are very honest, practical and useful. There were many accusation to Sri Sathya Sai Baba. I don't want to even mention them. But it is a fact that this man has spoken one of the most beautiful words trying to explain Vedanta. This is true even for Sri Rajnesh who was accused for being just a fraud. Rumi has been in love with a beautiful young brahmin which was and is very disturbing for most people but Rumi's poesy and love for humanity is difficult to be expressed. So let not be narrow-minded and take that which we feel with our heart as useful and beautiful and let's apply it to our life and let's stop judging and qualifying the others. Let's not limit God's Leela to our narrow mind and little heart.
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Vinod

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2012, 11:30:29 PM »
I swear i never knew Indra's notorious act

Dear Hari - I thought nobody would believe me(thinking every body in this forum knows it), hence i used such terminology.


I have the same opinion as yours of not judging people hence I've used Indra's act which I have recently learned. If we dont have any issues with Indra then why we must have issues with JK, Osho etc from whom we can get wisdom and ignore what is not necessary.

OM ARUNACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2012, 12:24:38 AM by Vinod »

Hari

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Re: jiddu krishnamurthy
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2012, 11:48:01 PM »
Dear Vinod, I don't have any issues with anybody. It seems you don't too. Body follows prarabdha karma Lord Ramana says. Jnana has nothing is common with it. Let's body experience what it is predestined to experience advices us Lord Ramana. There were householder jnanis, prostitute jnanis, more temperamental jnanis, very calm jnanis. I have heard for a jnani who was a butcher. Very unusual, isn't it? :) The important is that their 'status' does not change their Jnana. Jnana has nothing to do with the body and mind.

Krishnamurthy may be has slept with this woman. But he is who he is. If he is a jnani, then he is a jnani even after his love affair. If he is not jnani then his action does not make him more ajnani. :) Lord Krishna had 16,108 wives. Does that change His Divine status?  Lord Ramana says: "Don't say you are a sinner! You are the Self!" We must not forget that even for a second.
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