Author Topic: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender  (Read 242 times)

Anand

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 293
  • Anand
    • View Profile
With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« on: December 25, 2017, 09:05:53 AM »
Dear friends,

I will like to solicit feedback from various members like Subramanian Sir,Anil Sir(vide his post on self enquiry),Udai Sir,RAvi Sir,Krishnan to name a few ,and all others in this esteemed forum .Everybody's feedback is vital and requested , since each all of you ,being intrinsically divine ,have much to offer in terms of  some facets of how the divine operates in this.

I take reference to Bhagavan's instruction to Ms.M.A.Piggott wherein Bhagavan asks every thought to be killed at the root through self enquiry(pl refer the ashram's publication - Fragrant petals) .In the same conversation he asks one to live in the present,throwing all worries to the divine.I take reference to numerous other conversations of Bhagavan on surrender.

Of course as Bhagavan has said that all surrender is like removing a piece of jaggery from an idol made of jiggery and offering as Naivadya to the God, that that idol represents i.e what can we surrender when everything is actually his .But of course,Bhagavan meant the bhava of surrender without any reservations.

All our lives whether related to work or home ,we have to(or think we have to ) plan a lot of things related to say our job,home front like timely commencement of tasks,reflections on payments to be made, children affairs to name a few,all of which apparently involve a lot of conscious thinking.If this conscious thinking is not done ,we think that our world is crumble,we will be categorized as insane,a person who has renounced the world with no foot on practical living.

Bhagavan seems to say that we can surrender without reservations and live in the moment joyously.It then seems that the Supreme will take our activities and implant the right thoughts at the right time, so that we need not apparently,try to conjure up thoughts to initiate critical action,(critical at that juncture as we perceive it ).Our life will be on autopilot governed by the supreme and we need not incessantly worry about anything.THings will be done in the best possible way and at the right time,and without any criticism from stakeholders dependent on us.

I would like members to confirm above understanding and share their own view points on the above and perhaps experiences if they have practiced the same, in their own lives.Though talking about it is very difficult ,it is solicited as  a request for other sadhaks who would like to tread the same path.I know that that there is a thing called partial surrender but when Bhagavan has said that we have to surrender totally and reap the benefits,partial surrender seems to be just an excuse to postpone what is best for us. Hence, I am requesting members' viewpoints on this total surrender.

regards,

anand .


« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 09:28:43 AM by Anand »
Sundaram Anand

Beloved Abstract

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
    • David Ford Art
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2017, 09:51:01 PM »
understanding and viewpoints are stories ... let them all stop
treading a path is a story ... let it stop
everything bhagavan said is a story ... let those stop
reaping benefits is a story ... let that story stop
what is best for us is a story ... let that story stop
who we think we are is a story ... let that story stop
letting all the stories stop is total surrender  ... stillness
 :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Nishta

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2017, 02:29:44 AM »
Beloved Abstract, stop harrassing forum members with your perverted and immature interpretation of Advaita Vedanta.

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2017, 10:03:45 AM »
Dear Ananda ji,
           :)

Quote
Bhagavan seems to say that we can surrender without reservations and live in the moment joyously.It then seems that the Supreme will take our activities and implant the right thoughts at the right time, so that we need not apparently,try to conjure up thoughts to initiate critical action,(critical at that juncture as we perceive it ).Our life will be on autopilot governed by the supreme and we need not incessantly worry about anything.THings will be done in the best possible way and at the right time,and without any criticism from stakeholders dependent on us.
Yes. Please have full faith.
That God is also "I AM" or "Awareness" or "Presence" or "Being". So at-once available. Not far at all.

However I would like to add a few points Anand ji:

1. This world we experience is a long dream, it has no significance what so ever. As long as we think this is "valuable", we cannot really "let go" our hold and leave it to God. No matter how many times we tell ourselves "Let me surrender".
If i think that the stone in my hand is a diamond, its hard for me to leave it , drop it off ... for the fear or loosing it and God gives no assurance that it shall not be lost !! So I cannot let go ... but if i see it as only a piece of coal, what do i do ? God is the only diamond, rest all is just saw dust ! When this understanding dawns, surrender is natural. understanding of the unreality of the world plays a very vital role in making God the center of our lives.
But this understanding , some times take a little time ...

That is why Karma yoga is suggested : Do what you feel needs to be done and then accept the result , irrespective of what happens.
This attitude eventually matures to purna vairagyam. Purna vairagyam, Atma Jnanam and Self Surrender are one and the same.

2. Suppose we have some desires and want to surrender to God out of helplessness and seek his help ... That too is ok. Most people will say that this should not be so. My take is : With God, be absolutely clear and frank : "Oh God, I have this desire. I heard that this is unreal and yet I seek this and my own capacity being limited, seek your help. Things happen by your single Glance, Please help"

God listens. I do not say all the results shall manifest etc ... i do not know what will happen ... but things shall fall in place. We look at this world as cause-effect , which is the biggest illusion we sustain. The more we sustain this illusion, the less are the chances of seeing the miracles of God. To Sri Ramakrishna someone said :"How can anything happen by God's will, this hibiscus plant  gives red flowers will it give white flowers if god wills ?" and Sri Ramakrishna said "why not?" and LO! the next day the plant flowered a red and a white flower on the same branch ! Sri Ramakrishna  ran around the temple with that branch showing everyone the miracle of God ! This world is such a bizarre thing, there is no order ... all that is happening is an active imagination ... but that imagination is not by our individual but at the level of whole mind or God... so in my view faith in God is far far more powerful than any activity we do.
 

The greatest thing with Surrender and God is, one need not worry whether the surrender is complete, incomplete etc ... What ever it is, convey it to God and seek help. Make him your guru or friend ... and slowly it brings about a transformation. And as i said, that God is not far away, but here as "I AM", as "Awareness", "Presence", "Being".

Have no doubt. Have full faith ... and yet , do what needs to be done in a given event. Appropriate action... without worrying as to what will happen.

Love!
Silence

Beloved Abstract

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
    • David Ford Art
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2017, 07:44:33 PM »
nishta ... enjoy your story    :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2017, 08:13:11 AM »
Dear Nishta ji,
      :) What Beloved Abstract is saying makes sense, albeit unrelated to the post :D

and he is nice, he has a single line all the time :) ...
Love!
Silence

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2017, 08:14:42 AM »
Dear Beloved Abstract,
       :)

Why does one have to stop telling the story to be oneself ?
is it not enough to just see the story as story ?

suppose i am playing the role of rama in a drama ... do i have to stop the drama in order to be myself ? :)

Love!
Silence

Beloved Abstract

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 236
    • View Profile
    • David Ford Art
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2017, 08:03:56 PM »
thank you , srkudai
of course you dont have to stop anything ...
the truth of who we really are is unchanged before and after all the stories come and go
but who is it that is following these stories ?
what im pointing to is self investigation ... to stop and see what stories we are telling and who is really telling them
it will be found that who we thought we were our whole life was only a story told by the body to facilitate survival
its a catch 22 .. you have to stop being "you" ( let the story of the self stop ) to experience the truth of who you really are
then there is a real choice to follow stories knowing they are only stories or to not follow them and just be
before this there is only the following of stories (thought ) as if they were truth and no real choice
total surrender includes surrendering even who you think you are
i hope i have explained this a little better for everyone and how it relates to the original post
((((everyone))))






simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Nishta

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 55
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2017, 10:49:51 PM »
Confusing body with Self, one finds stories objectionable.
When all is Self what relevance do stories have?

To year after year repeatedly take offense with forum members' posts (stories) is to confuse body with Self.

**
Apologies Anand.

srkudai

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 10:37:03 AM »
Dear Nishta ji and Beloved Abstract ji,
         :) can we start another thread where this may be discussed.
This is very important and useful discussion.

Love!
Silence

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6267
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2017, 12:57:04 AM »
Dear Sri Anand,

In many ways,surrender is Trust-trust in the words of the Guru,in God,in the teachings,and basically,the trust in life itself.
We simply trust and have faith that life will unfold in a way it should,in way it is supposed to unfold. The past is dropped,since it is 'past'-it is actually dead,and we do not plan,we do not think and worry about future. There is no tension,there is no anxiety,with it,no fear. It is letting go. But this letting go does not mean letting go of life or responsibilities,braking relations or similar. It is not running away,it is just shift of attention from nonessential to what is essential. For what will we let go actually? This personality,to say,has its destiny to fulfil,and has its journey,its play,which is actually the God's play only. So why interfere,and why worry about it?

Practically,how i see it,it is hard not to be carried away with all the doership,and it is impossible at once. You are into something or you are not in at all. For me it is better to be into something with all your heart,to give all of our self,and not to do anything mechanically,or partially,half hearted so to say. By any cost. Essentially,it is courage to live with integrity and sincerity. For,it is God who is inside of these acts,it is God who is behind every face.
What is needed,is only to be aware,but not carried away. I am not sure how to put it differently,or how to explain it. I hope You understand what i mean.
To do everything in the best possible way we can,with all the passion,with all strength,and in the same time to think about our Guru,to think about God,to devotee all possible time to meditation and practice,and not to worry or anticipate anything.
Sri Arjuna was asked to fight in that very surrender,so it is not escape. What ever is asked from us we do,what ever is shown to us,in some open or mysterious way. For,it is also deep listening.
After all,we must live everything we learned so far.

If desires are there,let them be. After all,they do not belong to You. The non essential will never be real.

In the same time,here comes discrimination,which is actually thinking about the Teachings. You see desire is here,you see it brings fear and anxiety with it,you simply recognize it,and in this very moment,that same desire cannot hold you anymore. It is there,it cannot go at once,it does not need to be suppressed or fulfilled either,you let it happen as He wishes. But we need to be honest with ourselves,with God. Whatever is there,we should let it come out,and never hide it,or change it into holiness. Making it into holiness wont do. Pride must be abandoned also. 
Making peace with this,we wont have so strong impulse to follow it,desire or fear,same.

Surrender means giving our whole being and attention to God,our Guru and to the Truth. Most important,it is giving up the thought about anything else than Him.
It means trusting that all,bad or good,are here for our growth,for the best cause. And He knows best.
This is how i see surrender so far.

In the end,like Rumi said,it is surrendering the will. It is the giving up of the ego.


With love,

« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 05:02:26 AM by Jewell »

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6267
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2017, 10:47:48 PM »

Zero Circle

Be helpless, dumbfounded,
Unable to say yes or no.
Then a stretcher will come from grace
    To gather us up.

We are too dull-eyed to see that beauty
If we say we can, we're lying.
If we say No, we don't see it,
That No will behead us
And shut tight our window onto spirit.

So let us rather not be sure of anything,
Besides ourselves, and only that, so
Miraculous beings come running to help.
Crazed, lying in a zero circle, mute,
We shall be saying finally,
With tremendous eloquence, Lead us.
When we have totally surrendered to that beauty,
We shall be a mighty kindness.

Rumi

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6267
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 10:53:07 PM »
My life with Bhagavan taught me the value of faith, obedience and surrender. When I obeyed Bhagavan's words, or had complete faith that he would look after all my spiritual and physical needs, everything went well. When I tried to mould my own destiny (such as the time I went to live in the cave and the time I ran away to Polur) things went badly. Life's lessons have thus taught me the value and the necessity of complete surrender. If one surrenders completely to Bhagavan; if one lives by his words, ignoring all others; if one has enough faith in Bhagavan to stop making plans about the future; if one can banish all doubts and worries by having faith in Bhagavan's omnipotence - then, and only then, Bhagavan will bend and mould one's circumstances, transforming them in such a way that one's spiritual and physical needs are always satisfied.

Annamalai Swami in 'Living by the Words of Bhagavan'

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6267
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: With respect to Bhagawan's instruction on the path of surrender
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 11:05:26 PM »

Last of all will come self-surrender.
Then we shall be able to give ourselves up to the Mother.
If misery comes, welcome; if happiness comes, welcome.
Then, when we come up to this love, all crooked things shall be straight.
There will be the same sight for the Brahmin, the Pariah, and the dog.
Until we love the universe with same sightedness,
with impartial, undying love, we are missing again and again.
But then all will have vanished,
and we shall see in all the same infinite eternal Mother.

Swami Vivekananda