Author Topic: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people  (Read 686 times)

Child of Arunachala

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Dear All,

There is a posting on the " Tiru Community"  Facebook page on August 16, 2017 at 6.01 a.m. about the beating of animals and ill-treatment of sadhus and poor people in Ramana Ashram. 

There is also something on the Arunachala Grace blog at
http://arunachalagrace.blogspot.ca/2017/08/message-from-leslie-robinson.html

I personally have witnessed Sadhus and poor people, especially if they are women, being treated very badly in Ramana Ashram. Even the women workers in the kitchen are treated so badly by men cooks.  Complaints to the management have not helped.

The only way for us NOT to  incur the karma is to stop donations to Ramana Ashram until they treat the sadhus with love, respect and kindness. The same goes for the women and the animals.  They are all children of Arunachala, like we are. 


The donations we are giving is making these workers very arrogant and helping them to go on a power trip. Please let us put an end to it.

We want Ramana Ashram Management to ensure that the Sadhus, women workers, poor people and animals are treated with love, respect and kindness.  Arunachala and Bhagavan are in all of these people. Maybe they have come disguised to see how much compassion and respect we have for them.

with love to all,
Child of Arunachala
« Last Edit: August 19, 2017, 08:02:55 PM by Child of Arunachala »

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6087
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2017, 01:08:23 PM »
Dear Child of Arunachala,

I am really surprised to read all this. In truth,i have already read same complains of some women who had visited Ramanashram,but never took it too seriously. Even more surprised to read about animal treating! >:(

Personally i feel that these things will happen always more or less,for all sorts of reasons,but at least,it should be put on minimum.

When we know how Bhagavan behaved toward animals,Saddhus,women,and all people who came to Him,i cannot understand how  that can be forgotten!??After all,this is the great part of His teachings. So we all,including them,should not forget that nothing belongs to us,and this place is also only Bhagavan's property. And act accordingly.

With love,

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2017, 06:45:05 PM »
Friends,
Even in the days when Sri Bhagavan graced this terra firma such stray incidents have happened...and Bhagavan was even accused of supporting his authoritarian 'brother' and sarvadhikari of the asramam.
It is not as if the asramam is a place insulated from the world and its people...not all the people employed as cooks,watchmen,etc are sadhakas or interns.
Most of the reporting of such news would also be by people who are not sadhakas...and perhaps these things catch their attention, more so as they are looking for these.
Bhagavan's advice was 'vanda velaiyai paar'(Attend to what you came for)...and this advice is still the best...and if we come across anything dire and unseemly, the best course would be to report to the asramam office and they would do the needful...There is simply no point in publishing it in a public forum.
Every time that I have walked into the Asramam,I have always been greeted by the Strutting Peacocks, frolicking monkeys, and stray dogs which move about fearlessly as if to say 'Welcome to our Place' ...and amused visitors who watch all these with love and awe....I have videos of these.
By and large the asramam is well run and managed ...and offers the best opportunity to one and all to bask in the spiritual ambience of Arunachala and Bhagavan.This is one of the very best  Asramams that I have come across and if we deprive it of our measly so called 'donation' it would  mean that we would only end up depriving ourselves...the Asramam would go on, as it is sustained by the presence and Grace of Bhagavan and not by the "dollars'.
Namaskar

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2017, 06:55:38 PM »
Child of Arunachala,

"The only way for us NOT to  incur the karma is to stop donations to Ramana Ashram until they treat the sadhus with love, respect and kindness. The same goes for the women and the animals.  They are all children of Arunachala, like we are."

Stopping donation is also an act as much as giving donation...The only way to relinquish the karmic baggage is to relinquish doership...i.e to give up the idea that one is the donor or otherwise...giving up the idea of 'doership' alone would make me a child of Arunachala.

Namaskar 
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:29:36 PM by Ravi.N »

Child of Arunachala

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2017, 08:15:04 PM »
N. Raviji

What you are asking us to do is turn a blind eye. That is something we should NOT do.

The ashram management needs to ensure that all its workers, whether they are sadhakas or not, follow ashram policy of being kind and respectful to all, whether they are animals, sadhus, women staff or women in the poor feeding line. They should be fired if they are not following Bhagavan's teachings and ashram policy.

Beating a dog to death on Ashram premises!!! Treating the sadhus in a rude and abusive manner with our donations!!!. I am sorry I can't turn a blind eye to that. All workers need to comply with ashram policy.

Take care
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 08:22:14 PM by Child of Arunachala »

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2017, 08:32:37 PM »
Child of Arunachala,
No.I am not recommending to turn a blind eye...As I have said,if one encounters anything untoward,it may be taken up with the Ashram office directly...and they may do the needful.
Did you witness these things?Did you take it up with the Ashram management?What is their response?
Namaskar

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2017, 09:03:39 PM »
Child of Arunachala,
I am not a user of facebook...tried searching for any information concerning ill treatment/killing of dogs in Sri Ramanasramam...could find just this link that carries a letter from Sri Ramanasramam appreciating the services of 'Arunachala Animal Sanctuary & Rescue Shelter':
https://richardarunachala.wordpress.com/tag/dogs/
Please scroll to the end of this page....The Letter says "The Ashram supports the activities they are involved with and is deeply appreciative of their work.We encourage those who are moved in that direction to support their work"

There is no reason to believe that the ashram management has changed its mind on their earlier stance.

I went through the link that you provided and did not find anything that implicated the Ashram ...If you have any other information you may share the same.

Namaskar

Child of Arunachala

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 09:30:59 PM »
I am not sure why you are getting so defensive and angry. All that devotees are asking is that the workers who are not following the Ramana Ashram policy of love, respect and kindness should.

 I just checked the facebook page for Tiru Community is still there and the post by a westerner on August 16, 2017 at 6.01 a.m. is still there.

Here it is: 17  people have responded to the original post.   
 
Bubu Leni

August 16 at 6:01am
..

Dear Tiru folks, hoping all of you are safe! I want to speak for animals as they can't speak for themselves. Some of you may have noticed, others may not. Ramana Ashram happens to be a place where dogs get chased away with sticks, sometimes get beaten, and sometimes they die because of heavy beating. Several people who come every day to the ashram shared with me that they had witnessed such things there. Regularly. I understand dogs can sometimes cause problems, but I don't agree with beating them. There are certain people working for the ashram who treat them nicely and there are some who seem to delight in torturing them. I don't find beating a dog a solution. It actually is completely opposite to what Bhagavan Ramana was about. One dog died few years ago after being heavily beaten by an ashram guard. According to X-ray, his heart broke! And now, just recently, an ashram guard beat another dog so much that he died! I reported this to the office but I don't know what and whether something at all will happen. One thing I was surprised about was, when I mentioned the dog who died few years ago due to heavy beating by the guard, I was told by one of the ashram officers that "they make a big thing out of it" (meaning people). This is inexcusable. It is a murder. I understand keeping an ashram is a difficult task. But not taking any measures when an employee willingly kills a dog who is not any threaten to him is just a quiet supporting of animal cruelty.


Shanti Ramanan


Shanti Ramanan  Agree n we will also speak to the office bearers


4 ? August 16 at 6:06am

Bubu Leni


Bubu Leni  Thank you. I think many people witness it but don't talk about it because they don't want to get into trouble, or for other reasons, which I understand. Some may have tried to talk but gave up because of the attitude of the ashram office.


2 ? August 16 at 6:16am

Shanti Ramanan  Please talk to Dr murthy

2 ? August 16 at 6:24am
.
Bubu Leni

I left Tiruvannamalai recently so I can't talk to him anymore...

 August 16 at 6:24am
.
Nicoletta Sardina

This is so sad and sick. Thank you for denouncing and hopefully something can change
 August 16 at 6:08am

Ind Raj

Thanks to message and take care dogs

August 16 at 7:46am
.

Prem Shankar Pathak

Agreed.

 
Ram Kumar


 Thanks


Devānanda Sarasvatī

That's the problem with maintaining any kind of shrine or other big organization and property. Gradually materialistic values seep in and the original loving sacred atmosphere is lost. I founded an āśram once, thinking I could do a better job. But the same nonsense started happening despite my best efforts, so I closed it down and sent everyone home. Quantity dilutes quality, especially in spiritual matters. The bigger and more externally successful an organization becomes, the more it loses its original purpose and spiritual quality.


August 16 at 8:36am
.
Anna Etter

Thank you dear Bubu for talking about this! Just bringing these things to the light helps!

August 16 at 11:15am
.
Bookie Bowie

Agree. Killing a dog is murder they are also living being and Ramana Maharishi loved animals. But this thing the ashram does is opposite of Ramana .

August 16 at 11:18am

Prakash Raja

To my knowledge I see dogs everyday in the office entrance and some sleeping in the new hall inside mother's shrine. I personally haven't seen any beating. Could it b an one off ? I too am totally in disagreement if animals were mistreated.

August 16 at 11:56am

Bubu Leni

Prakash Raja Kokila Maryann Byrne I agree that dogs are allowed inside and they sleep there, get fed, etc. But certain parts of the day they are being chased away, out of the ashram. I personally witnessed it, not once. It is both. Good treatment some part of the day, and then chasing away (or beating) some other part of the day. And the beating may not be happening every day. But it does happen. It seems there are periods when the guards are being very "passionate" about having all the dogs out of the ashram, and then there are periods when they are more relaxed about it.

August 16 at 11:21pm
Kokila Maryann Byrne

I have been there many years and have never seen this. There are many dogs in the ashram who live there and are treated well. I am so sorry and surprised that this happened.

August 16 at 3:17pm

Polka Hound  Dear Bubu Leni , Sorry that you had to witness something like this, especially in an ashram setting. thank you for being the voice for the voiceless ones. I had heard about these stories - about dogs been beaten in the ashram but I had never personally seen nor did I trust the sources until recently when it happened to someone I know well. Not sure if you are talking about the same incident - a sweet dog died a month back due to internal injuries which was definitely due to the beatings it had received from one of the ashram guards. Why would someone beat an animal so hard? And why is this seemingly condoned? People with such a vicious streak really have no business being in an ashram.

2 ? August 17 at 3:57am

Bubu Leni

Dear Polka Hound, thank you for your words. Yes, I think we are talking about the same incident. And I completely agree with what you said!

Devānanda Sarasvatī 

There is a funny story in Rāmāyaṇa about a dog who was sleeping on a path and got kicked by an angry Brahmin. The dog went to Rāma and complained. The Brahmin was summoned and admitted his fault. Rāma asked the dog what the Brahmin's punishment should be. The dog said, "Make him the manager of such-and-such āśram." Rāma said, "That doesn't sound like a punishment." The dog replied, "I used to be the manager of that āśram. It is because I mistreated the inhabitants that I am now a dog."

Kesh Dass

August 17 at 10:29pm

people got angry with it for making a noise, Bhagavan would defend it, saying it was only doing its duty by the Ashram. There was at one time a small puppy that would always relieve itself on a nice smooth spot near the office. Chinna Swamy would get furious and try to drive it out of the Ashram, but again Bhagavan would come to the rescue, saying that if some child did the same thing nobody would be angry, and the puppy was only a child and knew no better.

August 17 at 10:41pm

Kesh Dass

in chinna
...playing out
ancient ancestral
patternings...
was also
"only a child
and knew
no better"

 August 17 at 11:25pm
.

Chrissy Marden

I fully understand and know what your saying and truthfully I think the new guards at the gate should be told to back off. I also see how they treat poor people . They are bullies who have a chance to act out. Something should be done. Good Luck, Over the years I have seen many dogs an cats come and go from the Ashram and I am sure how they go is not always kind.


August 19 at 1:35am

Shankar Sundaram

The bhagavan Himself patronised many pet animals.

 
August 20 at 9:28am

Raajeswari Loheett


Seems like "I will preach but won't follow"


« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 07:19:43 PM by Child of Arunachala »

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4010
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2017, 09:52:41 PM »
Child of Arunachala,
I find the usual loose talk and exchange only...Did anyone talk to Dr Murthy? ...or Mr V S Ramanan?...What is their response?
Please do not get me wrong...I am neither angry nor being defensive...I certainly will not tolerate any merciless beating and killing of innocent animals...but all the same I am not against some show of force if that is the only way an unruly animal has to be handled in a public place like the ashram....Please refer to my post in the Rough Note book thread(Gives a new dimension to the word 'Rough' ...ha ha)
If I encounter anything untoward ,I will take it up in a forthright manner...and will give an objective verbatim report...and pursue it with those responsible.
Namaskar



ksksat27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 950
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2017, 02:42:21 PM »
Dear Child of Arunachala

happy to see you after a long time with this post....

sub-consciously i expected some sort of these topics sooner or later from you....

good luck.

-- Krishna

Child of Arunachala

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: At Ramana Ashram: Ill-treatment of animals, sadhus and poor people
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2017, 09:12:03 PM »
Namaste Krishnaji,

Good to hear from you, too.

Spirituality isn't just about writing volumes about Arunachala or Bhagavan, or maybe even give speeches, go on a foreign (sorry, phoren) tour.

It is about: "Has your heart softened and your mind become pure." You can see that by how you respond to other human beings, animals, trees, and plants. I think I just proved my point in the exchange above.

I hope you have been well. Take care.

Child of Arunachala
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 07:38:42 PM by Child of Arunachala »