Author Topic: material pursuits and sadhana  (Read 3985 times)

ksksat27

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #45 on: July 21, 2017, 05:05:02 PM »
Dear all

as opener of this thread,  and also as very rightly Ravi sir said about reverse feedback,  let me share my inferences.

it is not that i will not post a similar question in future, but atleast for now whatever i have arrived at.

summary reply in 2 lines:

I realized that material pursuits and lust are born with me, it is in my strong prarabdha that i should go through all this.
So the only option for me is to invite Ramana Smarana and self enquiry more and more frequently in all small small gaps that i can find in my hectic life made of action events.

elaborate reply:

First and foremost,  my chemistry:  i learnt during the time I posted , during the time I received replies etc.  that i have strong samskaras and must have traveled in a certain shiva and shakthi devotion based path in past lives.   For me pooja, rituals, abhisekam, visualization of deities like  arunachala shiva etc.  are very very valuable sadhana combined with self enquiry.     That way I bring all that including self enquiry in one fold.  I dont view them as pooja vasanas.  they are pure satsang for me. 
Bhagavan Ramana is the only person who can understand me very deeply and offer guidance as Self remaining in Heart.  because i need to accept that i dont feel human in normal sense,  there is much of occult aura and vitality in my being.

Bhagavan Ramana, Sadhu Om, Lakshmana Swamy,   Papaji, Annamalai Swami all have encouraged absolute devotion and devotional practices as valid sadhana means.

Second,   for me Ramana Maharishee, his Naan Yaar and self enquiry are gem modes of sadhana.  Repeating ulladhu narpadu arunachala pancharatnam, atma vidya keerthanam, listening to nochur talks,  practing self enquiry are my main sadhana ( the other wing of jnana) during my bus journey are most valuable sadhana modes.  Sadhu om's point blank words help me a lot in this .

Now I realized that material pursuits and lust are born with me, it is in my strong prarabdha that i should go through all this.
so what i do is, i find free time in bus journey, during lunch and tea time,  even during meetings ,  i keep arunachala form satsang .  i keep connnected to Ramana.  that small small gaps do help me.  also in the morning, i put bhagavan works or shiva stothras and light incense.  those 10 minutes are intense sadhana moments.   and then the 2 months once trip to arunachala.   

In short, Bhagavan has given me enough break in my seemingly hectic schedule to keep that satsangh.   Not only that,  i have tried this multiple times,  during very hectic managerial meeting, right in middle of a conversation, i will remember ramana maharshi and his ashram. 

So now Bhagavan has merged into my lifestyle,  inseparable,  appears at anytime and peeps straight into the middle of a busy work. 
that is where i will remain and do my sadhana.

Ravi sir replies were helpful in one sense --    accepting practical aspects of one nature and to proceed from there.

Sadhak replies were helpful in uncomprimising self enquiry --  esp.  it is very true that the mind produces past ,present, future, all bondage and karma in this current moment. what he has told is there in yoga vashistham and other books.

I also realized that the type of help that I need to get is not intellectual replies.
it is a sort of emotional help,  a word or console and more than that,  the Grace, the power of the Self to purify. 
that is what I get in Ramanasramam and in Ramana satsangh.  but sometimes the human personal mode of guidance is required.  that is what i seem to ask with all this questions.

that grace sometimes gets communicated in replies, it does not matter what is written , but whatever written to me by you devotees carry that grace.  some element of it.


lastly i feel i have lot of vitality, the pranic force.  ( even though have BP etc.).  so what i need to do is, engage in more and more japa, self enquiry,  walking around arunachala .  and lot of walking.    this so much energy i need to channelize. otherwise it will result in lust.




atmavichar100

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #46 on: July 21, 2017, 08:53:44 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2017, 06:36:14 AM »
Jewell,
Wonderful post from you...I always enjoy the understanding,sympathy and love with which you express yourself...and how you draw inspiration from diverse sources ...this is something very very rare.
Yes...what you have said ...to be always in awe and in wonder of the unknown always...excellent.

It reminds me of the following saying of Sri Ramakrishna:
All is possible with God
MASTFR: "Nothing is impossible for God. Nobody can describe His nature in words. Everything is possible for Him. There lived at a certain place two yogis who were practising spiritual discipline. The sage Narada was passing that way one day. Realizing who he was, one of the yogis said: 'You have just come from God Himself. What is He doing now?' Narada replied, 'Why, I saw Him making camels and elephants pass and repass through the eye of a needle.' At this the yogi said: 'Is that anything to wonder at? Everything is possible for God.' But the other yogi said: 'What? making elephants pass through the eye of a needle - is that ever possible? You have never been to the Lord's dwelling-place.' "

Namaskar.




Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2017, 07:04:14 AM »
Sadhak,

I am sure the quotes/videos of Krishnamurti, Nisargadatta, etc are useful. But rather ironically after more than half a century of so called religious pursuit I only find one saying of Krishnamurti to be relevant these days.  Which just shows my inability to even start self enquiry.

"I have followed all these old paths of discipleship, of worship, and I see that they are much too long, too complicated, unnecessary -because whatever path you may follow, whatever god you may worship, whatever shrine you may build, you are forced at last to come back to yourself and solve that self."


I do not take your statement at its face value...and I get an impression that you are only saying how this enquiry needs to be in right earnest...and  i do agree with you (although in the context of this thread I will be exploring the opposite position).

Sri Aurobindo in his aphorisms says:
I know that the opposite of what I say is true, but for the present what I say is still truer.
Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2017, 07:11:44 AM »
Krishna,
Thanks very much for your detailed response...In general it is advisable to keep details regarding the sadhana under wraps...however I appreciate your candor...and trust that you will find your orientation and balance...Wishing you the very best.
We shall however continue the discussion on this topic in a leisurely fashion...the whole drift would be how to live life in an integrated way...and live with a sense of fulfillment.
Namaskar

Jewell

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2017, 06:11:22 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Thank You for so kind words.

...and for making me realise i wrote 'Awe' incorrectly. :) :) :)

With love,

Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #51 on: July 23, 2017, 06:21:43 PM »
Friends,
We referred to The Significance and importance of Shraddha...We shall see practical examples of shraddha a little later...We shall see a few other basic and Fundamental principles and Facts of Life and Living...This is not going to be a Text book Manual or something like that...so we shall see snippets of all that goes into making living purposeful and fulfilling.

The Interdependence of Life:
We are ushered into this world through our parents...Even in the womb we were totally dependent on the nutrition that was supplied through the Placenta...and after being born we have to be supported by our Parents and they in turn are supported by their parents during the post natal period...We are also aided by the Doctor and the nurses who facilitated our delivery into this world...and by the People who transported us from wherever we were born to our home.
We are dependent on food and this food is supplied by people who toil in the fields all day long....and they in turn are dependent on rains to help raise their crops...and the rains are facilitated by the trees and ecosystem...which again are dependent on the Birds and animals and worms that help pollination,etc.
It is clear from even a cursory understanding of the food chain how each is related to  All...and nothing can survive on its own....what affects one affects everything else and this interdependence of Life is a fundamental fact whether we realize it or not...Realizing this would make us respond Intelligently to situations in life...Not Realizing this would make us self centered and self defeating automatons....The Gita refers to this Fundamental principle as 'Bodhayanta parasparam'(Spiritual Symbiosis).

One of the questions that is asked almost everyday by most people when they initiate a conversation is :"How are you?"...and the other person answers or is expected to answer:"Fine" or "Going on" or "So far so Good" and there the matter ends....until the next day the same question gets repeated and more or less with the same response...until the next moment the person who was "Fine" is "Not so fine" when accosted with a 'problem'...The Problem may be 'an unreasonable Boss' or 'A Betrayal by a Friend' or it may be 'Downfall of Stock Market' etc,etc...Fragmented living is as Fragile as this.

Summary:We are not apart from the world...Interdependence is Fundamental...We are the world...If we live in a way in accordance with this fact we live intelligently...To ignore this is to live in isolation and this is what is called self centered activity...and this is a fragmented way that cannot be deemed as 'Living'.

continued...

Sadhak

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #52 on: July 23, 2017, 07:44:21 PM »
Ravi,
Quote
Please go through my posts ...i have said the same thing and have given excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna ...I have covered everything regarding the subject matter.

You have given quotes from various sources - Ramakrishna, Krishnamurti, Bhagawan etc etc.  But that is not the subject matter. Somebody has asked a personal question that he is facing in his life. Namely, the struggle between the opposite forces of materialism and spirituality in his life. For all we know, he may have read most if not all of these quotes already. I don't think he is asking for more material that is easily available in books or that he can find with google. At least I am not sure that is all he is looking for.

Quote
I have used the word 'Shraddha' over and over again...and please also check the ' 'Practical Hints on the sadhana from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna' thread (the latest post)

Yes I have no doubt about your sources or authenticity.

Quote
You tend to think that Sandhya and other practices should figure in the 'to do' list

No. Please read again. I said  'dos' and 'donts' are peddled as religion/spirituality. Something that many are told even as kids.

Quote
and you are differentiating self enquiry as belonging to a different category

I have said over and over that we are not even in the pre self enquiry mode where we are prepared to admit we are not capable of self enquiry, and still ignorant of the causes that prevent it.


Quote
I have completely understood your position right at the outset...I have pointed out to precisely this point when I referred to JK ....How his teaching has impacted you

Unfortunately you did not understand my posts. I said that nothing has impacted me. There is no point in labeling oneself or others as impacted by JK, Ramakrishna etc etc. Even on this thread people have commented that I am saying things from Yoga Vasishtam , Sadhu Om and whatever else. Impact is not simply reproducing what sages have said (however great they may be).

Quote
All these are resolved if we grasp the significance of the word 'shraddha' and this is what I intend going into, in this thread...and it will take some time to cover this...please bear with me and I request you to take a holistic view of what I am putting on the table.

Sure you can discuss shradda which is something I am quite familiar with though you may address it from a particular/specific point of view. But the real issue facing me (may be all of us) is the enormous resistance to self enquiry that takes many forms and persists all through our life no matter what we do (or don't do). Not a particular viewpoint on shradda, this or that.


Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #53 on: July 25, 2017, 05:50:17 AM »
The Principle of Dharma-The Sustainer of Life

Dharma is that which characterizes the intrinsic nature of each and every thing in the world-both animate and inanimate...The Dharma of Fire is to burn ,of water is to wet ,of air is to blow,of Earth is to bear...Similiarly the Living organisms have their characteristic nature...Each tree has its Characteristic,each insect and animal has its typical nature and will behave in accordance with that nature...There are animals with peaceful nature that eat leaves of plants and shrubs and there are carnivorous animals that are aggressive and prey on other animals...and all act in accordance with their nature which is well defined and predictable to a large extent...Even the aggressive animals only use it to satisfy their hunger and to guard  their territory and once these requirements are met,they do not venture to expand their dominion.

Human beings are bestowed with the intellect and on account of this sixth sense as it is called,there is an enormous complexity that comes into play...it can ennoble life or it can destroy life on a scale that no other living being can ever match...it thus becomes necessary for humans to understand and adhere to Principles that ennobles life and sustain it.
One very fundamental principle is the Law of Karma wherein it is not just the action but the motive behind the action which characterizes that activity...and as one sows so one reaps...and hence one need to take care of what one sows.

continued....
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 05:57:54 AM by Ravi.N »

ksksat27

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #54 on: July 25, 2017, 12:11:41 PM »
"But that is not the subject matter. Somebody has asked a personal question that he is facing in his life. Namely, the struggle between the opposite forces of materialism and spirituality in his life. For all we know, he may have read most if not all of these quotes already. I don't think he is asking for more material that is easily available in books or that he can find with google. At least I am not sure that is all he is looking for."


This was exactly my mind set when I posted the original question.  not that these were answered,  I wanted not quotes but devotees own insights and explanations.  quotes are fine, if it is limited to a line or two. not so complex quotes.


Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #55 on: July 25, 2017, 05:05:06 PM »
ksksat,
This was exactly my mind set when I posted the original question.  not that these were answered,  I wanted not quotes but devotees own insights and explanations.  quotes are fine, if it is limited to a line or two. not so complex quotes.

Friend,Have I quoted ?Are they simply Quotes?Are they complex?...They are conversations which are very relevant to the question that you have posed;at least that is the way I see it...and the contextual clue is clear for me...and I can only offer what I know...I do not have any 'own original insight' that I can call 'my own'...this is the reason that  I kept quiet looking at your question...You had already got the answer from Jewel and what I have elaborated is no different than that...and since you pointedly asked me,I cleared the premise right at the outset:

"you seem to be having so many choices to choose from...and are asking which 'choice' to exercise?
Are you looking for an approved 'blueprint' to chalk out the job of living? Very much like an architect certified building plan that one resorts to before constructing a house?...and it looks like you are inviting 'certified architects'(or otherwise!) to come up with alternative approved plans so that you may choose the one that appeals to you!
"

That entire passage is where I have shared and there are only 'two quotations' towards the end of that passage...one from Emerson and the other from Tirukkural and they are there to summarize what I have stated in that Fairly lengthy ,elaborate writeup which may be considered as 'Own insight and explanation' as per your paradigm...Insight is just Insight...there is nothing like 'my insight' or 'your insight' or 'his insight' ...for if there are  'many' insights,the sight is not there;that is for sure.
There has been nothing complex at all in what I have stated...yes,they do require our undivided attention and earnestness to see what is pointed out and may be helpful....it requires the basic trust that the other person has spent so much time and energy and there may be something in it ,even if it is something that we have already 'read' and are 'Familiar' with...and it is possible that the person is not a 'Google' search Engine or 'copy paste' operation in action dishing out pages of information.

These days I have grown wiser (I think so hopefully) and generally prefer to keep silent...if there is anything that I have to share on my own (and not in response to someone),I do that...not otherwise...for what is food for me may only be data for most and information for some...for if they have not found the responses to their query in what Great ones like Bhagavan or Sri Ramakrishna or JK have already said, I do not  have any so called 'insight on my own' to offer...there is nothing new except the Self...and there are not many selves.

I have observed that most people want only 'Fast Food' or quick fix ...and my shop does not sell those wares.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 05:32:49 PM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #56 on: July 25, 2017, 08:35:13 PM »

Dear Friends

The question asked by Kskat is something that does not have right or wrong answers ir-respective of whether they are answered with quotes or without quotes . The discussion here is an ongoing process for all of us to help develop more clarity inspite of the fact that many of the questions may seem repetitive . That is  part of the sadhana .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Beloved Abstract

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #57 on: July 25, 2017, 09:15:19 PM »
find the pursuer .........  :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Ravi.N

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #58 on: July 25, 2017, 10:38:27 PM »
Friends,
The Fundamental problem arises when we think that there is no correspondence between how we live the life in the world and the sadhana through which we seek the divine...Just 'somehow' manage the job of living and pursue the spiritual through Sadhana (atma vichara ,japa or any other)...somehow sneak through worldly life and through vichara get to know the Self ...anyway the world is only a dream and whatever one dreams ,how does it matter as long as one has to only awaken from it?

We are examining just this wrong paradigm...and we are exploring aspects of the Principles of Dharma,the interdependence of Life,The law of karma...and how Righteous Living is essential to spiritual growth and leads to it in a natural manner...and if we can grasp these principles ,there is simply no need to keep on asking the same question again and again.

This is the perspective for  understanding the discussion that we have initiated here in this thread.

Namaskar

ksksat27

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Re: material pursuits and sadhana
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2017, 04:23:38 PM »
Dear Ravi sir

i think my lines went terribly wrong....  first and foremost i am very sorry that i meant you by that 'quotes' analogy... yes you or anybody else can take that personally...

i always look towards the speaker and his grace... especially with my traditional mindset,  one who helps and mentors others is a sort of teacher...to get all required information and help first, to get comforted,  then to bury one's teacher is grave sin...  i never dreamt on that angle sir... please forgive me... especially first to ask someone to answer and then find mistakes in that is not a good manners... very sad that i somehow triggered that angle of thinking by this reply

so many people posted replies, some i read at a glance, some i read full etc. 

i typed that whole 'quote' stuff fastly and never considered it as a particular thing...

for fast moving people in samsara sometimes it is difficult to read and digest the original quotes...
i meant that way only

Please continue posting...  such a nice and elderly devotee guidance is required for one and all...especially from people like you who have seen through practical life...

regards,
krishna