Author Topic: Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"  (Read 1146 times)

Orihh

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Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"
« on: August 08, 2016, 02:29:09 PM »
I'm 15 pages into Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga", and after a confusing set of statements made regarding the power of liberated souls vs the power of Ishwara, the ultimate creator, Swami makes the powerful conclusion that "the wills of the liberated are dependent on the will of the Supreme Ruler".  That in essence, jnanis remain seperate from the Creator (with their only difference being the ability or lack theirof to create and destroy), because liberation entails the complete surrendrance and dependence on God (where the individual returns to Brahman), not necessarily the becoming of God.

I just thought I'd share Swami's insightful words...
Om Namo Saradamma

Ravi.N

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Re: Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2016, 09:56:19 PM »
The gist of what Swamiji is saying is this(in the very opening passage in that chapter):

Who is Ishwara ? 'JanmAsyasya yathaha'-'From Whom is the birth, continuation, and dissolution of the universe'-He is Ishwara-the Eternal, the Pure, the Ever-Free: the Almighty, the All- Knowing, the All-Merciful, the Teacher of all teachers;- and above all, 'sa iswarO anirvachaniya premaswarupaha'-He the Lord is, of His own nature, inexpressible love."

These certainly are the definitions of a Personal God. Are there then two Gods? The 'Not this, Not this', the Sat-chit-ananda, the Existence-Knowledge-Bliss of the philosopher, and this God of Love of the Bhakta? No, it is the same Sat-chit-ananda who is also the God of Love, the
impersonal and personal in one.

In effect,he is asking whether the God of the Jnani is different than the God of the Bhakta?....He clarifies that there is only one God....the personal and impersonal in one.
All the other explanations are looking at this basic premise from the viewpoint of Sri Ramanuja,Sri Sankara and Vyasa....to say that all standpoints are valid.
This is how Sri Ramakrishna explains it in the Gospel:
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Once Rama asked Hanuman, 'How do you look on Me?' And Hanuman replied: 'O Rama, as long as I have the feeling of "I", I see that Thou art the whole and I am a part; Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant. But when, O Rama, I have the knowledge of Truth, then I realize that Thou art I and I am Thou.'
The two aspects are not in opposition but just different standpoints( visishtadvaita and advaita).
Now Hanuman may have all the powers (in fact he is said to have all the ashta siddhis) but he cannot be said to be Iswara.
Hanuman is certainly a liberated soul....a chiranjeevi as well.
Is it possible that Hanuman has one will and Iswara has another?No,there is no such a thing....there is only the Divine Will of the Ishwara that operates through the jnanis.
What is the take away from all this?Whether we worship,Sri Rama,Sri Krishna,Sri Bhagavan,Sri Hanuman ,sri Saradamma....whatever be the particular form that we worship,it is Iswara alone who is the Object of worship.It is iswara that we worship through any form.

This is how Sri Ramakrishna explains this:
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There is only one Guru, and that is Satchidananda. He alone is the Teacher. My attitude toward God is that of a child toward its mother. One can get human gurus by the million. All want to be teachers. But who cares to be a disciple?
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If you asked me which form of God you should meditate upon, I should say: Fix your attention on that form which appeals to you most; but know for certain that all forms are the forms of one God alone"
.

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 10:35:06 PM by Ravi.N »

Orihh

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Re: Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 01:10:20 AM »
Mr. Ravi.N, what you've just explained was the jist of my understanding before reading the chapter.  I had to re-read the whole section because I couldn't quite understand Swami's message, and when I finished the second reading, I saw the quote that I initially mentioned to summarize Swami's entire point. 

In comparison to your post, I see that I actually interpreted Swami's words incorrectly.  It's true that the will of the liberated is dependant on the will of God, but the jnani's will only appears to be different from God's because of our own inability to recognize a liberated soul as not the body.  The body's will is dependant on the will of God, but God isn't anything different from the jnani himself; so the state of the Jnani is the same as the state of Ishwara, correct? 
Om Namo Saradamma

skpatil

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Re: Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 10:27:09 AM »
I want to be Jnani...Bhagavan HELP me :)

Ravi.N

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Re: Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 07:54:54 PM »
Orihh,

Quote
It's true that the will of the liberated is dependant on the will of God, but the jnani's will only appears to be different from God's because of our own inability to recognize a liberated soul as not the body.

Better not to speculate on these things....enough to understand that it is Ishwara who is adored and worshipped through whatever form..
In the very next chapter on page 17,Swamiji says:

Quote
To the Bhakta these dry details are necessary only to strengthen his will; beyond that they are of no use to him. For he is treading on a path which is fitted very soon to lead him beyond the hazy and turbulent regions of reason, to lead him to the realm of realisation. He, soon, through the mercy of the Lord, reaches a plane where pedantic and powerless reason is left far behind, and the mere intellectual groping through the dark gives place to the daylight of direct perception. He no more reasons and believes, he almost perceives. He no more argues, he senses. And is not this
seeing God, and feeling God, and enjoying God, higher than everything else?

In reading books....just look for small snippets like these  that can be easily understood, assimilated and put into practice....Do not try to understand every word,every line,etc....as we ripen and the understanding grows,we should be in a position to put things in their place without losing the essence.

This is what Sri Ramakrishna says in The Gospel:
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One should not reason too much; it is enough if one loves the Lotus Feet of the Mother. Too much reasoning throws the mind into confusion. You get clear water if you drink from the surface of a pool. Put your hand deeper and stir the water, and it becomes muddy. Therefore pray to God for devotion.

Namaskar

Orihh

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Re: Jnani's and their Status - Swami Vivekananda's "Bhakti Yoga"
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2016, 09:59:05 PM »
Thanks for the advice, Ravi.N!  Ramakrishna's analogy makes a lot of sense.
Om Namo Saradamma