Author Topic: Consciousness is indivisible  (Read 1527 times)

Anand

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Consciousness is indivisible
« on: July 17, 2016, 07:05:14 PM »
Dear friends,
I have read in some places the above words and understand that they have a deep significance.
Would learned members throw some light on the above term and the detailed meaning.
Thanks,
Anand Sundaram.
Sundaram Anand

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2016, 10:32:14 PM »
I am not sure what exactly you are looking for. But Krishnamurti was asked a related question and I have reproduced his reply.

Question: Why do you maintain that Life has no purpose? If Life has no purpose, the individual life, even in pure being, can have no purpose either; because individual perfection can have a meaning only when there is a purpose in creation.

KRISHNAMURTI: Life  by which I mean, that life which is truth, in which there is no division, in which all things consummate, on which all things depend, in which all things exist    that life has no purpose, because it is. For that which is, there cannot be a purpose, because it is all inclusive. In that exist both time and space, and individual existence; but individual existence, in which totality is not yet realised, has a purpose. That purpose is the realisation of this totality. Individuality is not an end in itself, because individuality is imperfection. It is burdened with incompleteness; and so the magnification of that individuality, to however great a degree, will still remain individuality. That which is imperfect cannot by magnification or multiplication be made perfect. So the true purpose of individual existence is to realise this unity of things, this reality, in which there is no sense of object and subject, ?you? and ?I?, in which there are no reactions, but only the sense of pure being which is positive, dynamic. (When I use the word ?positive?, I do not exclude the negative). This life is in all things - in this table, as in the most highly cultured man. But the individual in whom there is separation, in whom there is distinction of object and subject, in whom there is division, because of his limitation, his imperfection, must fulfill himself in perfection, in incorruptibility. Therefore individual existence has a purpose, but life has no purpose.

Oomen, Holland, 1930.


Nagaraj

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2016, 07:16:11 PM »
Dear Anand Sundaram,

I really appreciate your question very much. A good question is such that it will invoke the pure Ganges of knowledge. Moreover, it has really become a rare aspect even in this forum that we really had a good discussion.

Consciousness is indivisible - This you need to first look into the source of this reflection, why and how is consciousness indivisible and by referring it as indivisible, what is really meant?

There can be no better example to refer than that of Arjuna's plight. Please read the Chapter 1 carefully and become Arjuna and feel the plight and experience the pain and fear of Arjuna, only then will you truly be able to digest the essence of the reflection - "Consciousness is indivisible"

Spirituality never works out well for a curious mind, but if the fervor is deep and genuine, only then can we really be able to digest the essence of the words of Rishis.

When you see and understand the Arjuna in chapter 1, and relate the same to your own self in your world and recognise the invalidity of the various experiences that we experience that cause us to experience repeated pains and pleasures, sukha and dukha and so on, the dualities, only then Sri Krishna appears to you in the form of Jnana and bestows upon you the divine knowledge.

What Arjuna experienced before the war, or rather when we experience in the world, full of pain and pleasures, sukha and dukha, we can say that Consciousness is divisible a sense of incompleteness, dissatisfaction, depression and so on and what Lord Krishna clarifies there upon is that he simply clears the misunderstanding, and shows to us that the consciousness is indivisible. He says to Arjuna, (to you, to us - Who art fed up of the world of samsara and none other, not for the curious lot)

श्रीभगवानुवाच:
कुतस्त्वा कश्मलमिदं विषमे समुपस्थितम् ।
अनार्यजुष्टमस्वर्ग्यमकीर्तिकरमर्जुन ॥

śrībhagavānuvāca:
kutastvā kaśmalamidaṃ viṣame samupasthitam,
anāryajuṣṭamasvargyamakīrtikaramarjuna.

The Blessed Lord said: Whence has come to thee this dejection, this stain and darkness of the soul in the hour of difficulty and peril, O Arjuna? This is not the way cherished by the Aryan man: this mood came not from heaven nor can it lead to heaven, and on earth it is the forfeiting of glory.

क्लैब्यं मा स्म गमः पार्थ नैतत्त्वय्युपपद्यते ।
क्षुद्रं हृदयदौर्बल्यं त्यक्त्वोत्तिष्ठ परंतप ॥

klaibyaṃ mā sma gamaḥ pārtha naitattvayyupapadyate,
kṣudraṃ hṛdayadaurbalyaṃ tyaktvottiṣṭha paraṃtapa.

Fall not from the virility of the fighter and the hero, O Partha! it is not fitting in thee. Shake off this paltry faintheartedness and arise, O scourge of thine enemy!

Arjuna goes on to further enhance his argument of feeling depressed, the divisible nature of Consciousness but the Lord is not at all impressed and he admonishes Arjuna for his so called wise words as though full of wisdom and begins to enlighten Arjuna of the indivisible nature of Consciousness.

What is the indivisible nature of consciousness? Krishna says that the birth and death, pleasures and pains of life, are not for you, and you as that real Self are untouched! The pains and pleasures, the birth and death, the actions of karmas all do not affect the real you. Like body undergoes through various stages of childhood, youth-hood, adulthood and old age, you remain unchanged all through.

This is the only message of our Bhagavan's life - that we are that pure Consciousness alone that is absolutely indivisible.

Lord Krishna says:

यं हि न व्यथयन्त्येते पुरुषं पुरुष्ऽअर्षभ ।
समदुःखसुखं धीरं सोऽमृतत्वाय कल्पते ॥

yaṃ hi na vyathayantyete puruṣaṃ puruṣ'arṣabha,
samaduḥkhasukhaṃ dhīraṃ so'mṛtatvāya kalpate.

The man whom these do not trouble nor pain O lion-hearted among men, the firm and wise who is equal in pleasure and suffering, makes himself apt for immortality.

Though, I can go on explaining in detail, it would be only good that you go through the Chapter 2 very carefully and revert back when you further get more questions. I would like to conclude by presenting the following 2 verses that perfectly convey the indivisible nature of Consciousness:

नासतो विद्यते भावो नाभावो विद्यते सतः ।
उभयोरपि दृष्टोऽन्तस्त्वनयोस्तत्त्वदर्शिभिः ॥

nāsato vidyate bhāvo nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ,
ubhayorapi dṛṣṭo'ntastvanayostattvadarśibhiḥ.

That which really is, cannot go out of existence, just as that which is non-existent cannot come into being. The end of this opposition of 'is' and 'is not' has been perceived by the seers of essential truths.

 
अविनाशि तु तद्विद्धि येन सर्वमिदं ततम् ।
विनाशमव्ययस्यास्य न कश्चित्कर्तुमर्हति ॥

avināśi tu tadviddhi yena sarvamidaṃ tatam,
vināśamavyayasyāsya na kaścitkartumarhati.

Know that to be imperishable by which all this is extended. Who can slay the immortal spirit?



Reflect the divisible nature of the world, this life of ours is very precious, we ought to make the best use of it. Please see the divisible nature of the world and reflect more and more on it. Below, I present 5 shlokas supposedly composed by Adi Shankara:

जन्म दुःखं जरा धुःखं जाया दुःखं पुनः पुनः ।
संसारसागरं दुःखं तस्मात्-जाग्रत जाग्रत ॥

Janma dukham, jara dukham, jayadukham punah punah
Samsara sagaram dukham, tasmaj Jagrata, Jagrata.

Birth is full of pains, old age is full of miseries, woman is again and again the source of all miseries and pains. This ocean of samsara is full of grief. Therefore, wake up! wake up!
Life is full of miseries, old age is painful, having a lot of property or money is full of sorrow, in fact anything that is available in this world will give us only pain or dukham. Therefore, be careful.

कामः क्रोधश्च लोभश्च देहे तिष्ठन्ति तस्करः ।
ज्णानरत्नापहाराय तस्मात्-जाग्रत जाग्रत ॥

Kama krodhascha lobhascha, dehe tishtanthi taskarah
Jnana ratnapa haaraya, tasmat jagrata, jagrata.

There lurk thieves in the frame, namely lust, anger and greed to steal the jewel of your wisdom. Therefore, wake up! wake up!
The known, but at the same time, unknown enemies of any human are kama, krodha, lobha, moha, mada, matsarya, ahamkara, etc. The moment
they appear, jnanam just flys away from the system. We need to have
control over them to lead a life of a Real Human Being. So, be
careful.

माता नास्ति पिता नास्ति नास्ति बन्धुः सहोदरः ।
अर्थं नास्ति ग्रुहं नास्ति तस्मात्-जाग्रत जाग्रत ॥

Mata naasti pita naasti, naasti bandhuh sahadarah
artho naasti graham naasti, tasmat jagrata, jagrata.

You have no mother, no father, no relatives, no brothers, no wealth, no house (nothing will remain forever, nothing will follow you after death. Therefore wake up! wake up!
When death strikes, no other person or assets (like name and fame or
power or wealth or any mundane aspect) goes with us. We have to go
alone. So, be careful.

आशया बध्यते लोके कर्मणा बहुचिन्तया ।
आयुः क्षीणं न जानाति तस्मात्-जाग्रत जाग्रत ॥

Aashaya baddhate loke, karmane bahu chintaya
Aayuh ksheenam najanati, tasmat jagrata, jagrata.

You are bound in this world by desires, actions and manifold anxieties. Therefore you do not know that life is slowly decaying and is wasted away. Therefore wake up! wake up!
Desires resulting in thoughts to act in several ways are binding us to this world, but we are so deluded that we forgot that in this rat race, our age is decreasing. So be careful, be careful.

संपदः स्वप्न संदेशः, यव्वनं कुसुमोपमं ।
विद्युत्-चंचलं आयुश्यं, तस्मत् जाग्रत जाग्रत ॥

Sampadah swapna sandeshah, youvanam kusumopamam
Vidyut chanchalam aayushyam, tasmat jagrata jagrata.

Assets are temporary and youth is impermanent. Like light life flashes out out in no time. Therefore, wake up! wake up!
Health and wealth like dreams, wither away like flowers at the sight of scorching Sun. Day-by-day, we are nearing to the last days of this body. We have to be careful, so that we will not waste this life.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2016, 12:13:08 AM »
Dear Sadhak, that was a beautiful post on JK. I felt you could post his interesting talks in a separate thread if you are inspired to do so. Some of his talks are surely very enlightening and immensely beneficial.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 08:54:23 PM »
Here are a couple of excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the master explains the indivisible nature of pure consciousness:

1."The worldly man's ego, the 'ignorant ego', the 'unripe ego', is like a thick stick. It divides, as it were, the water of the Ocean of Satchidananda. But the 'servant ego', the 'child ego', the 'ego of Knowledge', is like a line on the water. One clearly sees that there is only one expanse of water. the dividing line makes it appear that the water has two parts, but one clearly sees that in reality there is only one expanse of water.

2.It was evening and the street was jammed as before with people and vehicles. He said: "Let us get out of the carriage. It can go by a back street." Proceeding on foot, he found that a betel-leaf seller had opened his stall in front of a small room that looked like a hole. One could not possibly enter it without bending one's head. The Master said: "How painful it is to be shut in such a small space! That is the way of worldly people. And they are happy in such a life."

3."The Incarnations of God belong to the class of the Isvarakotis. They roam about in the open spaces. They are never imprisoned in the world, never entangled by it. Their ego is not the 'thick ego' of worldly people. The ego, the 'I-consciousness', of worldly people is like four walls and a roof: the man inside them cannot see anything outside. The ego of the Incarnations and other Isvarakotis is a 'thin ego': through it they have an uninterrupted vision of God. Take the case of a man who stands by a wall on both sides of which there are meadows stretching to infinity. If there is a hole in the wall, through it he can see everything on the other side. If the hole is a big one, he can even pass through it. The ego of the Incarnations and other Isvarakotis is like the wall with a hole. Though they remain on this side of the wall, still they can see the endless meadow on the other side. That is to say, though they have a human body, they are always united with God. Again, if they will, they can pass through the big hole to the other side and remain in samadhi. And if the hole is big enough, they can go through it and come back again. That is to say, though established in samadhi, they can again descend to the worldly plane."


What Sri Ramakrishna has said is the same as what JK had said....with this difference that he expresses it in a simple way that one can have an intuitive feel of what is said....This is why he is one of the great communicators of all times.

Ravi.N

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 09:18:37 PM »
I will post a couple of excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna to bring out this aspect-as to how the Master was never satisfied with 'words' but wished to give an 'intuitive feel' of what he conveyed:

1.Sri Ramakrishna lay down on a mat and whispered to M.
MASTER: "Yes, God can be seen. X- has had a vision of God. But don't tell anyone about it. Tell me, which do you like better, God with form, or the formless Realitv?"
M: "Sir, nowadays I like to think of God without form. But I am also beginning to understand that it is God alone who manifests Himself through different forms."
MASTER: "Will you take me in a carriage someday to Mati Seal's garden house at Belgharia? When you throw puffed rice into the lake there, the fish come to the surface and eat it. Ah! I feel so happy to see them sport in the water. That will awaken your spiritual consciousness too. You will feel as if the fish of the human soul were playing in the Ocean of Satchidananda. In the same manner, I go into an ecstatic mood when I stand in a big meadow. I feel like a fish released from a bowl into a lake."

.............and this is what happens on another day..................

2.Sri Ramakrishna, accompanied by the devotees, took a carriage to return to Dakshineswar. They were going to pass the temple garden of Mati Seal on the way. For a long time the Master had been asking M. to take him to the reservoir in the garden in order that he might teach him how to meditate on the formless God. There were tame fish in the reservoir. Nobody harmed them. Visitors threw puffed rice and other bits of food into the water, and the big fish came in swarms to eat the food. Fearlessly the fish swam in the water and sported there joyously.
Coming to the reservoir, the Master said to M.: "Look at the fish. Meditating on the formless God is like swimming joyfully like these fish, in the Ocean of Bliss and Consciousness."


Indivisible means that the Infinite can never become Finite....It is ever the Infinite although it apparently becomes 'Finite' and 'Limited' through the 'dividing stick of 'I' and 'Mine'....in Reality it is ever the undivided infinite.

Nagaraj

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2016, 08:56:43 AM »
Sri Ravi, none can explain the Truth as simple as Sri Ramakrishna!!

What happens as we keep the company of the Master as we read the Gospel is that slowly we are made so simple and humble, verily we are stripped slowly and surely of all the koshas.

It is a journey that one has to go through reading the Gospel. It is not enough to read some pages in between. We have to live with the Master in reading slowly and surely.

Sime times i feel Gospel could be read as a Bhagawata or Ramayana like a Saptaham or 9 days or so. As the great shloka goes on Ramayana:

Charitam Raghunaath?asya shatakoti pravistaram

Ekaikamaksharam pumsaam mahaa paataka nashakam

?The story of Rama extends to a hundred crore couplets. Every single letter of this massive book destroys the biggest sins of those who read it.?

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Consciousness is indivisible
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2016, 09:53:25 PM »
Nagaraj,
Quote
Sometimes i feel Gospel could be read as a Bhagawata or Ramayana like a Saptaham or 9 days or so.

Undoubtedly.....The Beauty of the Kathamrita is that one can dip anywhere into it, even at random and derive the inspiration and benefit.

In the Gospel,the master says:
A holy man had a book. When asked what it contained, he opened it and showed that on all the pages were written the words 'Om Rama', and nothing else.

In a sense,this is true of The Gospel...in all pages it communicates the message:'God alone is Real....To love God is the only purpose of Human life'

Yes,it is indeed excellent sadhana if one can regularly read the complete gospel on a regular basis.....in as much as it provides excellent satsangha with the master ....and the contagious influence that it casts on the  fortunate reader.

It is also a good idea to contemplate on some of the  'passages' and 'moments' from it as 'M' himself used to do- for himself and also for the devotees.

In every which way one approaches it,it never fails to inspire and guide.Truly a treasure trove.

I have already shared in the Rough-notebook thread as to how the book came to be written and its unique charm and appeal for all seekers,irrespective of their path....I shall share more of it in the rough-note book thread.

Namaskar