Author Topic: Thoughts  (Read 3527 times)

Sudharshan

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Thoughts
« on: July 11, 2016, 08:01:27 AM »
Good Morning Sir/Madam,

I have few questions

1. For example :

a. I 'm not having any thoughts for few seconds and my mind is empty in that moment  also I need to do self inquiry ? as to  who is that silent?

b. In a routine life for example I get up at 6.00 am till I go to end - i need to inquire all my activities( even when the mind is not thinking about anything other than the normal activities)

like : who is that getting up ? who is that taking bath ? - the normal activities or when the mind goes away from this routine i need to inquire?

c. Can you give me some tips  as how to be silent ?

d. Can you also give me some tips to get rid of fear ? when I do this inquiry  i ask who is that fearing but the fear is so strong and it  is again coming back.


e. How do you hold on to the I thought ? - very confusing?


Regards

Sudharshan

Nagaraj

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Re: Thoughts
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 09:33:37 AM »
Dear Sudharshan,

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a. I 'm not having any thoughts for few seconds and my mind is empty in that moment  also I need to do self inquiry ? as to  who is that silent?

Yes, you are doing fine, keep the Sadhana on persistently, relax if need be, it is fine, by practice, you will be able to pursue without any disturbance.

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b. In a routine life for example I get up at 6.00 am till I go to end - i need to inquire all my activities( even when the mind is not thinking about anything other than the normal activities)

like : who is that getting up ? who is that taking bath ? - the normal activities or when the mind goes away from this routine i need to inquire?

You need to enquire to whom these thoughts are coming - 

"i need to inquire all my activities( even when the mind is not thinking about anything other than the normal activities) "

"who is that getting up ? who is that taking bath ? - the normal activities or when the mind goes away from this routine i need to inquire?"

 - Who am I? That 'I' to whom these thoughts are occurring! It is important to note that the objective of Self Enquiry is Self Realisation, we should be clear of the aim (In spiritual sense, there is no goal to reach, but lets keep this aside for now). Therefore one has to constantly enquire who is it to whom these thoughts are occurring. That source from where these thoughts are arising, is our real nature or real Self. We take the thoughts as our identity, and follow the thoughts.

For example, it is like enquiring, what is the source of this gold jewelry, ring, necklace and so on? upon enquiry it is seen that the source of these various ornaments are the Gold. Though we may call it Gold Ring or Gold necklace and so on, it is just Gold, and the name for different forms have arisen from the Gold alone! This Gold Bangle is nothing but Gold alone! Similarly the clay pots and dolls have their source in mud or clay only. Like wise, the 'I' thought and the world of all other thoughts have arisen from the Source. Self Enquiry is to realise this Source. The classic example Snake-Rope analogy provided by Adi Shankara, in the dusk under a tree, from a little distance it is observed that a snake is hanging from the tree and it causes fear and whole samsara, Self Enquiry is enquiring by observing it and going nearer and nearer you see that it was not a snake but only rope after all.

See Bhagavan's teaching below:

Of all the thoughts that arise in the mind, the ?I? thought is the first. It is only after the rise of the ?I-thought? that other thoughts occur.

What is the source of this 'I' that rises? after which, other thoughts arise, like the tree and the branches.

What happens when we enquire? What is the goal? This also Bhagavan clarifies as below:

The thought ?who am I?? will destroy all other thoughts, and like the stick used for stirring the funeral pyre, it will itself be burnt up in the end. Then, there will be Self-realization. When other thoughts arise, one should not pursue them but should diligently inquire: ?To whom do they occur?? It does not matter how many thoughts arise. As each thought arises, one should inquire with alertness, ?To whom has this thought arisen?? The answer that would emerge would be ?to me?. Thereupon if one inquires ?Who am I?? the mind will go back to its source; and the thought that arose will subside.

With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the power to stay in its source.


What exists in truth is the Self alone. The world, the individual soul, and God are appearances in it like silver in mother-of-pearl. These three appear at the same time, and disappear at the same time. The Self is that where there is absolutely no ?I? thought. That is called ?Silence?. The Self itself is the world; the Self itself is ?I?; the Self itself is God; all is Siva, the Self.

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c. Can you give me some tips  as how to be silent ?

The real objective is not to be silent, real objective is to realise your True Nature - Who you Really Are. Silence will be a by-product of your Self Realisation. This alone is real silence. Our being Silent artificially is of no real purpose. Yes, we may remain silent in-order to be able to enquire more effectively. Vratas such as Ekadasa Vratas are made for this purpose that one may be able to devote oneself completely on the God-Head. Real Upavasa is not just remaining silent but stravation of all the 5 indriyas and sublimating it all towards the Supreme Truth.

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d. Can you also give me some tips to get rid of fear ? when I do this inquiry  i ask who is that fearing but the fear is so strong and it  is again coming back.

Face the fear head on with wisdom and clarity. Look clearly, fear will go. Avichara leads to fear. Below I share a short story from the life of Swami Vivekananda:

Once when I was in Varanasi, I was passing through a place where there was a large tank of water on one side and a high wall on the other. It was in the grounds where there were many monkeys. The monkeys of Varanasi are huge brutes and are sometimes surly. They now took it into their heads not to allow me to pass through their street, so they howled and shrieked and clutched at my feet as I passed. As they pressed closer, I began to run, but the faster I ran, the faster came the monkeys and they began to bite at me. It seemed impossible to escape, but just then I met a stranger who called out to me, "Face the brutes." I turned and faced the monkeys, and they fell back and finally fled. That is a lesson for all life ? face the terrible, face it boldly. Like the monkeys, the hardships of life fall back when we cease to flee before them. If we are ever to gain freedom, it must be by conquering nature, never by running away. Cowards never win victories. We have to fight fear and troubles and ignorance if we expect them to flee before us.

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e. How do you hold on to the I thought ? - very confusing?

It is confusing so long we realise the Self. When you realise your self, there will be no need to 'Hold on to the I thought' Yes, Bhagavan has said to hold on to the I thought, it means, by holding on to the first thought that is 'I' do not get distracted by following the thoughts, stay put there and observe at that point, Who am I, where from have I raised? or Where from this I has risen, observe, observe carefully, with clarity and patience, then what is, will be revealed to you.

Finally, please read again and again Bhagavan's Naan Yaar Vicharam carefully and very reverentially. All the answers you require are already provided by Bhagavan. Little bit Sravanam, Mananam and Nidhidhyasam. Cultivate Moderation, there is no hurry.

You have come thus far, without Bhagavan's grace it would not have been possible. When nothing works, just discard everything and look at Bhagavan or your Guru, look at him, sit by His side, just remain. Speak to him your heart out. Converse with him, for He is not just a picture, He is present there and as antaryami, he will answer all you ask him in different ways and you will begin to see His grace everywhere.

I would like to conclude with a story story from Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

"A disciple asked his teacher, 'Sir, please tell me how I can see God.' 'Come with me,' said the guru, 'and I shall show you.' He took the disciple to a lake, and both of them got into the water. Suddenly the teacher pressed the disciple's head under the water. After a few moments he released him and the disciple raised his head and stood up. The guru asked him, 'How did you feel?' The disciple said, 'Oh! I thought I should die; I was panting for breath.' The teacher said, 'When you feel like that for God, then you will know you haven't long to wait for His vision.'

Likewise, Spiritual quest will be successful only when we have this hunger, and if our quest is much only about curiosity or so, it will be of lesser progress even though some progress is definitely assured.

Welcome to the forum, May all go well with you.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Thoughts
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 06:51:32 PM »
Welcome to the forum,dear Sudharshan!


Quote
I 'm not having any thoughts for few seconds and my mind is empty in that moment  also I need to do self inquiry ? as to  who is that silent?

You see,in this case,there is still someone who is aware of thoughtless state and silence. Whille Your mind is empty,as You said,You are still aware that it is empty. Who is that one? This is that 'I' that You should hold, and be aware of.
So yes,You should procede with selfenquiry. But that question "to whom',is there only to bring You to Yourself,to put on attention on You,Your very existence.

Quote
In a routine life for example I get up at 6.00 am till I go to end - i need to inquire all my activities( even when the mind is not thinking about anything other than the normal activities)

like : who is that getting up ? who is that taking bath ? - the normal activities or when the mind goes away from this routine i need to inquire?

Yes,You could inquire at any moment. But i wish to say that it is very important to have some time,hour or so,to be alone,and to be totally focused on inquiry. Also,in my own case,during the day's activities,it is most important to watch Yourself,Your feelings,Your desires,fears,impulses,and among all,Your motives,so You can understand them better. Not just to watch them,but to analize them. For example,when Your anger arises,You try to see what is the real meaning behind it,is it that obvious reason,or something deeper and different. Or,when You help someone,to see what is the real reason You did it. Love,or just selfish interests,etc. There are many examples. Most important is ,also,to question our motives for this very search for Truth. It can reveal much,and it can be great assurance that we are going into everything with pure and clean heart,pure motives and sincerity. Than,no matter what we do,which practice and how,it will bring us nearest to our goal. Because,since we are aware of all these feelings,which are truly only visitors,we are already apart from them. We are not them.

 It is very hard to stay focused on enquiry,in a form of self attention,in the beginning. Especially,during activities. So instead,You can try to see how Your mind functions. I think this is very important step. Only then,when we see how mind operates,we can understand it.

I came to see,that only after long and objective examination of all  feelings,motives and patterns of my responces to certain situations,i could truly understand the importance and the meaning of that question:'To whom?'. Not before. Only then,when i came to examine some anger,or fear,or similar,i made to see how all this does not have any substance,and what this question really means.
Otherwise,this question is only there to bring Your attention to Yourself.

You can also try with I,I,I technique,bringing this very attention on You. It can help if You read literature on this. From Bhagavan,Saddhu Om,or Maharaj. You can find it on the site 'Arunachala-ramana.org' also.
If  examination is not something which suits You,You can read everything You find interesting from Bhagavan's works,or any other Sage,to listen some devotional music,or to use some mantra You like, or prayer. And indeed,just looking at Bhagavan has a great effect,like Sri Nagaraj said.

For me,most soothing of all is listening devotional music and reading Maharaj,Bhagavan and many other Gurus. Reading Srimad Bhagavata,or Bhagavad Gita. But the practice which gave me greater amount of peace is only Self enquiry. Most powerful effect for me.

About fear,well,fear is very usual thing when we start doing selfenquiry,or any other practice. It is the mind rebelling,so do not worry. With me,it comes in waves,so to say,and it can be very strong and quite irrational.
Regarding fears and anxieties we have generally,it is very important not to dwell on them. Fear,like desire,has the great effect on our lives,and so called reality. Fearing something very strongly,be it some unwanted situation,or similar,we only make it worse,and we can bring that to reality. Fears,like many desires,are very much irrational,unreal,and completely untrue. It is just the habitual mind play. Dwelling on them give them life. Otherwise,they are just fancies,nothing more. So,there is nothing to fear really. We could never know the things the way they really are,or can be. It is only how our mind interprets it. The future,the Present,or maybe to call  it reality, can be much better and more beautiful than our assumptions about it.


With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 07:01:11 PM by Jewell »

Sudharshan

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Re: Thoughts
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 07:29:40 PM »
Good Morning,

Thank you so much for the response. Appreciated!!!

Regards

Sudharshan

Sudharshan

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Re: Thoughts
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2016, 01:15:26 AM »
Good Morning Sir/Madam,


From Annamlai Swami :

On some day, I asked Bhagavan:  ?I am getting stomach pain often? [hoping that He would prescribe some medicine]?

Sri Bhagavan replied:  ?What to do?  This body is itself a big disease. One has to be still to cure this.  All other diseases will
 then just go.  You are telling me.  To whom can I tell my disease??

Question :

In this case when we are ill we shouldn't see a doctor or we should see a doctor and take medicines?

Regards

Sudharshan

Sadhak

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Re: Thoughts
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2016, 03:50:37 AM »
Dear Sudharshan,

"Question :

In this case when we are ill we shouldn't see a doctor or we should see a doctor and take medicines? "


It may be prudent to ask some basic questions before making too many assumptions.

1. Can there be self inquiry when there is imitation?  Who is it that wants to imitate?  Who is it that wants to be like Bhagavan or some other jnani that catches our fancy?

2. Are we Bhagavan?  Bhagavan was not the body and stated that the body was a disease. Only someone who has no fear of death (of himself or his near and dear ones) can say that. Bhagavan spoke something that was true to Him. He lived that way. But we are strongly identified with the body, and we worry about anything that happens to the body, even a headache. That is our true situation. Self deception is not the path to self inquiry.

Of course if you are also living in the same state as Bhagavan then you won't take medicines or care for them. But then this question would not even arise.






atmavichar100

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Re: Thoughts
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2016, 03:02:54 PM »
Quote
2. Are we Bhagavan?  Bhagavan was not the body and stated that the body was a disease. Only someone who has no fear of death (of himself or his near and dear ones) can say that. Bhagavan spoke something that was true to Him. He lived that way. But we are strongly identified with the body, and we worry about anything that happens to the body, even a headache. That is our true situation. Self deception is not the path to self inquiry.

Of course if you are also living in the same state as Bhagavan then you won't take medicines or care for them. But then this question would not even arise.

True and I know few in my family and friend Circle who were thinking they could also be like Bhagavan ( with regard to his quote "The Body is the biggest disease ") and did not take properr care of themselves ( more out of  laziness )  and finally it reached a critical stage when they had to be hospitalised and they were crying like a  coward  in the hospital afraid of the surgery and all there previous Vedantic thoughts like " I am not the body " ,  "The body will die but the soul does not die " etc etc was of no use and they ended up paying a fat bill to the hospital and now more running to various temples , astrologers etc for doing Pariharams .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha