Author Topic: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"  (Read 2689 times)

shiba

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"Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« on: March 12, 2016, 05:49:15 PM »
"Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5

visayebhah paravrtya vrttih sarvah prayatnatah

vimarse kevalam tisthedacale nirpadhike

Strenuously withdrawing all thoughts from sense-objects,

one should remain fixed in steady, non-objective enquiry.(translation by Prof.K.Swaminathan)

What is the sanskrit words which correspond to "non-objective enquiry"?  I think "nirpadhike"is the word...but does "nirpadhike" have the meaning of "non-objective"? I searched the word in the web but didn't find that meaning.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2016, 06:41:39 PM »
Dear Sri shiba,

The Sanskrit words which correspond to non-objective enquiry in the cited Verse, in my view, are 'vimarse kevalam' which verbally may mean 'in absolute deliberation'.
 

visayebhah paravrtya( turning away from the sensory objects) vrttih sarvah (all activities) prayatnatah(with effort).

vimarse kevalam (in absolute deliberation) tisthedacale (take stance unchanging) nirpadhike(without any motive whatsoever).


Dear Sri shiba, this is how I have interpreted the Verse under reference. The meaning and essence, in my view, is the quintessence of the Atma-vichara as revealed by Bhagwan Sri Ramana.

Pranam,
   Anil
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 07:02:14 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

shiba

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2016, 01:33:10 AM »
Dear Anil,

Thank you very much for your reply.

Then, Prof. Swaminathan's translation seems to be rather free translation. In Prof. Swaminatain's translation, how "nirpadhike" is translated into English?

S. Sankaranarayanan's translation seems to be literal translation of this verse.


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2016, 08:01:26 AM »
Dear Sri shiba,

Yes, I have only the Sri S. Sankaranarayanan's translation of Sri Ramana Gita with me. It is easy for me to translate and interpret Sanskrit verses in Hindi rather than in English. So, I considered it appropriate to employ Sri  Sanakranarayanan's preference of words corresponding to the Sanskrit words in the Verse 5 of the Chapter 3 of Sri Ramana Gitta, for it is, in my view, more accurate, literal or verbal translation of the said Verse than Sri Swaminathan's, if what you have posted is his translation. So, yes, Sri Swaminathan's translation is a free translation rather than a literal one, though essence remains the same.





visayebhah paravrtya vrttih sarvah prayatnatah
(Strenuously withdrawing all thoughts from sense objects)
Prof. Sri K. Swaminathan's translation of the first line of the Verse is more literal.

Dear Sri shiba, in my view, Sri Swaminathan's use of term 'non-objective enquiry' may be taken to correspond to 'vimarse kevalam  nirpadhike' in the second line of the Verse. 'tisthedacale' in the second line of the Verse in accordance with Sri Swaminathan is 'remaining fixed in steady'.


However, the word 'nirpadhike' in Sanskrit literally must mean 'without upadhi' (nih+upadhi=nirpadhike). Sri Sankaranarayanan's translation of the word however seems to be 'motiveless' or 'without motive whatsoever', which cannot be the accurate literal meaning of the term 'nirpadhike'.

Anyway, we should concentrate, contemplate and meditate on the sense, import and essence of any poetic works rather than laying too much emphasis on literal translation and verbal meaning. This is my view. If you like it, it is alright, if not, please do not care.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 08:13:12 AM by eranilkumarsinha »

shiba

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2016, 09:48:57 AM »
Dear Anil,

Oh, I see. Prof. Swaminathan's translation is easier to read than S. Sankaranarayanan's  for me, but sometimes  S. Sankaranarayanan's seems to be more literal so worth to be refered to. Another translator Natarajan also used the word "'non-objective enquiry'.

>Anyway, we should concentrate, contemplate and meditate on the sense, import and essence of any poetic works rather than laying too much emphasis on literal translation and verbal meaning. This is my view. If you like it, it is alright, if not, please do not care.

Yes, I think so too. But I am now translating chapter 3 of Sri Ramana Gita into Japanese( and next chapter 6), so I would like to know the meaning of the original sanskrit words for better translation  when there are  rather differences among English translations.

So I may ask other questions on this forum about  translation, please  don't use this Brahmastra to me ;). And if u know tamil I would like to ask you about Kay's translation of Lakshmana Sharma's commentary of "ulladu narpadu" .

You seems to know well about sanskrit , if you know Tamil I would like to ask some question about Laksmana Sarma commetary of Ulladu Narpadu

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2016, 01:22:49 PM »
Dear Sri shiba,

Quote:
"But I am now translating chapter 3 of Sri Ramana Gita into Japanese( and next chapter 6), so I would like to know the meaning of the original sanskrit words for better translation when there are rather differences among English translations."


That is wonderful. Indeed I am very happy to know from you that you are translating Sri Ramana Gita into Japanese. This also means that Sri Bhagwan's Grace is showering on you else you cannot do so. Therefore, surrender and depend totally on Him, and on Him alone. He will facilitate and show the way in this great endeavor. Besides, Sri Bhagwan has Himself observed that such work is a great sadhana!   




Quote:
"So I may ask other questions on this forum about translation, please don't use this Brahmastra to me  . And if u know tamil I would like to ask you about Kay's translation of Lakshmana Sharma's commentary of "ulladu narpadu"."



Dear Sri shiba, what do you mean by Brahmastra here?
No, I do not know Tamil at all. However, if you have difficulty in translating a Tamil word or a verse in Tamil into English or Japanese, you may request Sri Ravi who, I am sure, will help you accomplish this task ably and efficiently. Sri Ravi bhai saheb is a devotee par excellence, and is, in my view, quite well versed in classical Tami, and therefore, most competent in this Forum to assist you in this endeavor. I also ardently desire to spend some time in Chennai with him, after retirement from the govt. service, and learn abc of Tamil from him to be able to sing Sri Arunachala Akshramanamalai in the original language in which it was composed!


Quote:
"You seem to know well about sanskrit , if you know Tamil I would like to ask some question about Laksmana Sarma commetary of Ulladu Narpadu."

 
Since Sanskrit is the language of Srimad Bhagavad Gita, Vedas, Vedanta and other invaluable scriptures, I learnt Sanskrit enough to study and interpret them. However, I am not a scholar in any language, nor I seek to be one. Still I would say that if you ask question regarding Sri Lakshmana  Sarma's Commentary on Ulladu Narpadu, I shall certainly seek to respond intuitively. As far as Sri Kay's translation is concerned, I feel that it is admirable, to say the least, though it also may not be literally so accurate.


Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil     
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 01:26:38 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

shiba

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2016, 03:31:49 PM »
Dear Anil,

Brahmastra that I meant is your suggestion like "we should concentrate, contemplate and meditate on the sense, import and essence of any poetic works rather than laying too much emphasis on literal translation and verbal meaning". If this is used, it will become difficult to ask meaning of sanskrit words or so in this forum for me... just joke :)

In kay's translation, the word "Content" is sometimes used. It is used same as Self. I haven't seen such english word in other translations of Bhagavan's works, so I want to know what is the tamil word which corresponds to "Content".

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 04:08:03 PM »
Dear Sri shiba,

Quote:
"Brahmastra that I meant is your suggestion like "we should concentrate, contemplate and meditate on the sense, import and essence of any poetic works rather than laying too much emphasis on literal translation and verbal meaning". If this is used, it will become difficult to ask meaning of sanskrit words or so in this forum for me... just joke."


Yes, I now understand why you are seeking to know literal meaning of Sanskrit and Tamil words and verses. I assure you that from now on whenever I respond to your question I shall straightaway try to clear your doubts regarding literal meaning of a word or term, if I can. 

   

Quote:
"In kay's translation, the word "Content" is sometimes used. It is used same as Self. I haven't seen such english word in other translations of Bhagavan's works, so I want to know what is the tamil word which corresponds to "Content"."


Dear Sri shiba, you may ask Sri Ravi bhai saheb the Tamil word which may correspond accurately to the English word 'Content'.
However, I wish to say that the word 'Content' has been used by Sri Kays' in his translation of the Ulladu Narpadu to mean 'being', which is Existence, as opposed to quality or qualifications or upadhi or adjuncts which are mere appearances in and on the screen of Existence-Consciousness or the Self. Therefore, yes, real Content is the Self, which is What IS, and not that which is fleeting and, appears and disappears, and is unreal and illusory.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil   
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 04:11:03 PM by eranilkumarsinha »

shiba

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 02:14:14 AM »
Dear Anil,

Yes, as you say, I also think that "Content" probably means what is inside, so which is opposed to upadhi, what are added and mere appearances.

Thank you very much for your all kind replies :).

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: "Sri Ramana Gita" Chapter3 verse.5 "non-objective enquiry"
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2016, 06:06:46 AM »
Dear Sri shiba,

Quote:
"also think that "Content" probably means what is inside, so which is opposed to upadhi, what are added and mere appearances"



A little error seems to have crept in due to use of the word 'opposed' in my previous post under this topic.

Dear Sri Shiba, I didn't use to word 'opposed' to show that the 'Content' is opposed to ignorance, or 'being is opposed to non-being, or Reality is opposed to non-Reality, such as, upadhi or adjuncts  or appearances. Nothing is apart from the Self. From the stand-point of Reality, 'being' and 'non-being' are verily the Self only.  My use of the word 'opposition' was only to show that the Content alone is real while all else is unreal and illusory. Sri Bhagwan has taught that as fire and wood live together, likewise Self and non-Self, or Content and non-Content live together. All appearances are happening in Consciousness (Content) and on the substratum of Consciousness(Content) only. All else are fleeting, ever-changing and appearing and disappearing on the substratum or screen of the Self. While all appearances pass away or cease, Screen alone remains.   
Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil       

« Last Edit: March 14, 2016, 06:09:22 AM by eranilkumarsinha »