Author Topic: guidance on Self Enquiry  (Read 3685 times)

ramasamy

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guidance on Self Enquiry
« on: February 19, 2015, 08:13:16 PM »
Members,

Need your help. I have been practising Self Enquiry for a couple of years.
Recently I increased the time on Self Enquiry and somehow the body is not co-operating. I need help.
I will be visiting  Tiruvannamalai sometime in the next two weeks.
Who are the best persons who can help me and who are already well ahead in the practice?
Any pointers will be appreciated.

In Bhagavan's grace,
ramasamy

Jewell

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 09:14:13 PM »
Dear Ramasamy,

I am not sure if i can help,but i can give You some advices which are helpful in my case. Also not sure what You ment exactly,but in case of headaches,resistance and similar things,the main thing is not to strain Yourself too much and use too much force. That is very important! Try more to focus,not using mind that much. I know this is contradictory,but try to focus more in a tranquil and quiet,gentle way. Avoid strain by all means. This was my mistake. And sure,see that You do not use mind,like thinking,etc.,when You are practicing. Do not make conclusions,like 'This is that,etc.,',just focus and hold that awareness of Your existence,beingness 'I am'.
I saw somewhere Bhagavan quote how concentration should be more done with heart,less with our brains. I am not sure where i have read this.

Attention should be drown very gently,not by forcing ourselves. When You feel tired,just relax and then continue when You feel fresh. In the mean time,relax and do the things which You love. Listen some bhajans,or relaxing music,reading something devotional,and take care of Your heart,so to say. Be gentle with Yourself.

And i wish to add that in the moments of difficulties and such,prayer is most helpful. Well,it is helpful at any moment!

I wrote anything i could remember,so sorry if i wrote something You already know.

Here are some links with good advices,from the main site. They are for any seeker,not only for begginers. Every time You read,You see something which You did not saw at first.
 Self Enquiry,The method and its fruit.

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/articles/article_self_enquiry.htm

Excellent article! Please read it if You have time. Meditation & Vichara,What is meditation?

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/articles/article_meditation.htm

I also recomend The Path of Sri Ramana by Sadhu Om. To me it is of great help.


With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: February 19, 2015, 10:47:36 PM by Jewell »

shiba

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2015, 03:31:57 AM »
What is your actual method of Self-enquiry? And what do you mean by saing "the body is not co-operating".

And If I can have the oppotunity to go to Arunachala, I will not search for Guru. I will go around the Arunachala, or Temple or Sri Ramanashramam and do mediation. Because Sad-Guru (dispeller of darkness) like Ramana Maharshi will rarely be found. If you consult many seeming Gurus, you may end up with more confusion.

And to avoid needless strain during meditaion is good  ;D. Bhagavan said so . But however we may try to avoid strain, there must be some strain and we have to put up with it :-[.  This is also what Bhagavan said. And also from my experience it is true.

ramasamy

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2015, 08:25:08 AM »
Dear Jewell,

Thank you for taking the time to give me pointers and definitely they are very useful to me at this time.
The "Self Enquiry" article is very comprehensive and useful.
My problem is the heat that is generated in the head.
I have come across Bhagavan's advice on concentrating on the heart and tried. It did not work for me and maybe I am doing a mistake.
I did strain and I will try to avoid it. Bhajans are always a favorite for me and that will be a good solution.
Once again thank you so much for the prompt and explanatory email. It means a lot to people like me.

In Bhagavan's grace,
ramasamy

ramasamy

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2015, 08:48:33 AM »
Dear shiba,

thank you for your email and pointers.
My method of self enquiry is to first calm down using TM (transcendental meditation) for around 3 minutes.
After that I focus on the heart to start with and just observe the thoughts as they arise.
Typically 30 to 40 mins and I repeat it 2 to 3 times everyday but not at regular timings.
The focus at times shifts without volition to around the middle of spinal cord and I am able to stay for upto 30 minutes or so.
The issue is that the head gets heated up and the effect remains for many hours.

I liked your way of mentioning the strain. I have read a lot of books from Bhagavan related literature and others.
But there is no progress and I am stepping up the practice.

Nagaraj

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2015, 09:34:46 AM »
Dear Ramasamy,

Just recognise that you are the untouched witness at all times -

When you asked for Help:

Need your help.
you were present

When you observed that you have been practicing SE for a couple of years:

I have been practising Self Enquiry for a couple of years.
you were present

When you observed that you have increased the time on SE

Recently I increased the time on Self Enquiry and somehow the body is not co-operating. I need help.
you were present

When you observed that your body is not co-operating:

somehow the body is not co-operating.
you were present

When you felt you need help:

I need help.
you were present

When you decided to go to Tiruvannamalai in the next two weeks.

I will be visiting  Tiruvannamalai sometime in the next two weeks.
you were present

When you asked who are the best persons who are well ahead in practice who could help you:

Who are the best persons who can help me and who are already well ahead in the practice?
you were present

and so on....

Just recognise that you were just present as it is -

When you got responses here

When you pondered over those responses

When you contemplated further

When you saw that the problem is the heat generqated in the head

My problem is the heat that is generated in the head.

when you observed that you came across Bhagavan's advice on concentrating on the heart and tried, and it did not work for you and when you felt you are doing a mistake and when you felt Bhajans are favourit for you and it may be a good solution

I have come across Bhagavan's advice on concentrating on the heart and tried. It did not work for me and maybe I am doing a mistake.
I did strain and I will try to avoid it. Bhajans are always a favorite for me and that will be a good solution.
Once again thank you so much for the prompt and explanatory email. It means a lot to people like me.

When you saw that strain

When you decided to avoid it

When you thanked people

and so on...

See, recognise that you are 'simply present' during all times, just recognise that you are different from all the experiences you have had. You are able to recollect all experiences, so you must have been an onlooker all through, and not the experiencer. Like this you are just the observer of the experiencer itself but are not the experiecer at all.

Just acknowledge your presence in all your experiences. Without exception, all sadhakas face some experiences or the other, headaches and strain and so on. Just recognise be present, just say to yourself "yes, I am here, witness to this experience too" Just be present to your own presence at all times.

Nothing to worry. Too much exercise of mind and intellect is the reason for your heat and strain. just recognise yourself as separate from all of these. relax.

Simply acknowledge your presence at all experiences, during strain, during heat, during peace, during other experiences, just acknowledge to yourself that yes, 'ok, i am present here too' as the mute spectator. And may be say 'thank you, for the experience' :-) and just see them come and go one by one.

Even now you are present to this response that you are reading.

Even before you came to Bhagavan you were present, just the same, Even before your spiritual quest began, you were present as the same. You were present as the same from your childhood, till now, you have remained the very same. you have observed and preent all along as the life of Ramasamy unfolded.

You were present, then
You are present, now
You will be present, hereafter

Bhagavan's blessings are within you.

Best

--
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 09:44:15 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2015, 11:11:21 AM »
Dear Ramaswamy sir,

I noted below lines in your question.

"I have come across Bhagavan's advice on concentrating on the heart and tried" 
"transcendental meditation" etc.


I think the understanding of Heart meditation is wrong totally.  Maharishi never referred to Heart on right side of chest and also the term concentration.  Heart is God or Seat or Source of thoughts. it cannot be concentrated upon. it is not a place in our body.

To simply give you an example,  Heart is not an object,  Heart is that through which your whole search has become possible. Heart is that through which you see all other objects. So Heart cannot be known or concentrated . It is that by which all other things become known.

You also mentioned that you are observing the rising of thoughts.  Observing is a mind activity. witnessing or observing may be valid meditation technique elsewhere but not in Maharishee's school of thoughts & self enquiry.

For effective self enquiry, all the time one has to attend to the innermost feeling "I"

it does not matter if your brain is heated or not.  shift the attention to who feels this heat or coolness.    go deep within this "I". if you stay in the I sense for long time, you will get a feeling of diving deep within yourself.

your search for a realized Guru is good endeavour. go ahead and search all through the world.  this search will give enough punyas which will one day earn the right to sit before an enlightened teacher.

but that enlightened guru may not even talk about self enquiry.

so self enquiry and searching for a living guru has no connectionts. they can go parallel.

but to teach this self enquiry method,  Path of Sri Ramana by Sadhu Om, Be as you are by David Godman and Sri V Ganesan may help you.

David and Ganesan can be met and you can clarify your doubts further.

the above are just my observations.

in experience i have not reached any high state still.

Jewell

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2015, 12:33:21 PM »
Dear Ramasamy,

Regarding 'heart centre',Sri Krishna(ksksat27) gave You a good advice.
This is not some centre in the body. Actually Bhagavan said that it cannot be pointed out like an actual 'place'. He mention it only because the questioner asked this way,but there is no way to explain it properly coz it is not in the body.
Selfenquiry should be done with the knowledge 'We are not the body'. If we focus on the body,this purpose is lost.
Just focus on the one who is focuing himself. You Yourself. Focus on the observer,and hold onto him alone.

Also,do not mind the mind and thoughts. Just let them be,and put Your attention on 'You'. To whom the thoughts come?

This surely does not mean repression,just gentle shifting of attention.
When 'observing the thoughts' is mentioned,the purpose is to understand our motives,fears,desires,all hidden things stored in subconsciousness,so to say. And this can be done through the whole day. To understand our motives. Like a sort of objective analisis.

But the true selfenquiry of Bhagavan is not this. The purpose is to realise these thoughts are not You,but appart from You. It is not to mind the thoughts,and to give them attention,but to hold onto the one to whom they occour. There thinking is contaproductive,so to say.

Heat usually means,althrough not necessary,that You strain too much. Like You observed also.

Just relax,and when ever You feel You are helpless and need guidance,pray with all Your being. Believe me,it helped me so many times,and it is helping still. Our sincerity,motive and intentions are what is important in the end...

Wish You All the best in Your quest!

With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 12:40:28 PM by Jewell »

shiba

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2015, 12:44:39 PM »
Dear ramasamy,

You told me your method and issue of meditation frankly and in detail. I like your honesty ;).

But before I advise something to you , I would like to know about more about your issue during practice to make my advice more useful and to the point.

Would you tell me names of the books from which you learned meditation.

You said "the head gets heated up and the effect remains for many hours". Do you not feel headaches also, especially around your temples?  And does the effect  remain even next day or only several hours?

Nagaraj

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2015, 03:47:44 PM »
Dear Ramasamy,

your topic says, you require guidance on Self Enquiry, but take it a little upwards, make it, guidance required on God realisation or Self realization. you see, a slight paradigm shift can make a lot of difference. Whoever you approach, where ever you approach, to whom ever you speak to, ask not how to enquire, ask how to realise the Self. The more you approach in your quest childlike, the goal nears you as that very much. There, we would not care for the pains or shame. A childlike faith will earn the grace of God Guru, much quickly. The trees may guide you, the street dog may guide you, any stranger may guide you. There is no restriction how the grace of God/Guru can descend on you. The only question is are we willing to go all the way? placing the desire for God/Guru/Self over and above every other thing.

I just had a prompt to express my thoughts. thank you. May God guide you!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramasamy

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2015, 05:47:20 PM »
Dear Nagaraj Sir,

Thanks for both of your emails. Unexpectedly the last email you sent puts me on the right track and that is precisely what will help me at this juncture.

Dear ksksat27,
Thanks for your time but since you are not aware of the context around me now, it is not helpful for me.
However I am sure someone else who is reading the thread will benefit from your observations.
Also I am so happy to be part of a forum where so many active Ramana devotees are accessible!

Dear Jewell and shiba,
Thanks and I will write offline.

Let us close this thread for now.
Regards
ramasamy

Ravi.N

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 07:57:48 AM »
Ramasamy,
This is just to let you know that one of the finest exponents on Vedantic Teachings (Sri Bhagavan's included)is Nochur Sri Venkatraman.I am not sure where you are located but your name sounds like a tamizh name-I assume that you know Tamizh.The Talks of Sri Venkatraman are available in the form of CD and it will be beneficial to listen to his exposition of Sri Bhagavan's 'Atmavidya kirtanam' ,Ulladhu Narpadhu,Akshara Mana malai,nan yar and Srimad Bhagavatham , other talks by this supremely blessed devotee.You may also lookout for his talks in Chennai or Bangalore in this year.

You may check the program listing here:
http://nochursravana.com/programme-listing/

Namaskar

Rakesh

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2015, 04:52:25 AM »
Namaskaram, Please guide me in my practice too.
Whenever the thought rises, question it by asking 'To whom it has occurred?' it says 'To me' (What i understood here, 'To me' is 'Iam this body' and it is I-thought or ego) and then enquire this I-thought or thinker by asking 'Who am I?'
This is what i have understood after reading number of books.
I am confused and i don't no whether iam enquiring correctly or not. The way i used to practice is
'To whom it has occurred?' it says 'To me' (Iam this body) then 'Is the body,I?' It is silent and inert and it disappears in sleep. Therefore, 'Iam not this body'. If Iam not this body, 'Who am I?' (is it necessary to think all this or straight away enquire 'Who am I?'). Sometimes i used to concentrate on 'I' by isolating 'I' from 'Iam this body' (chit-jada-grantha). Since, body is insentient..
Please, help me.
Thank you.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 05:02:33 AM by Rakesh »

drsundaram

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2015, 07:48:23 AM »
namaskram shri ravi
i also happen to note shri Nochur brahmashri's programme by seeing your posting
i look fwd to knowing his progs at bangalore
om namo bhagavathe sri ramanaya

Jewell

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Re: guidance on Self Enquiry
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2015, 10:10:20 PM »
Dear Rakesh,

From Bhagavan's words and instructions,the most important thing in self enquiry is bringing this very 'I' into focus,the questioner himself. And,i believe we must ask this question with deep interest who this 'I'.'Me',is. When something truly interests us,we employ all our senses and focus into it. So,i think that in this way enquiry should be done too.

Your way is a good way. Sure,so long it is done naturally,so to say,when it is is not mechanical(asking 'Who am I'),but genuine questioning.
And just holding this very 'I' into focus,i find most important. This question is there to bring us to enquirer himself.

Also,what i realized,we should not bring any final conclusions. Coz it can somehow narrow our search. That's way i sometimes think that reading all these explanations what is what,can be harmful,as much is helpful. It ruins the essence of enquiry,bringing answers which are not our realizations.  The only thing i found as a must is knowing 'I am not this body'.(but that too can be analised). It should be trusted,until this too must be felt, in some way. At least,i see it this way.

With love and prayers,

« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 11:50:33 PM by Jewell »