Author Topic: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014  (Read 2537 times)

Subramanian.R

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Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« on: December 31, 2014, 01:15:46 PM »
Luci Ma as she was affectionately called by residents of Sri Ramanasramam, is Lucy Cornelssen, a German lady, who came to
have darshan of Sri Bhagavan and she simply stayed there without going back to Germany.  She is the authoress of the book
Hunting the 'I'.

When she took seriously ill, her daughter came from Germany and took care of her till her merger with Arunachala on a 31st
December.  The daughter who is now staying in the Asramam, like her mother was, did not go back to her country having
attracted by Sri Bhagavan's teachings. Nowadays one can see her inside the Asramam, wearing a white sari and having a chain with
Cross, on her neck. She wears kumkum also!  She attends all pujas everyday in the Asramam and also takes the South Indian
food and breakfast served.  She lives not inside the Asramam but somewhere outside the Asramam.

I do not know where the Samadhi of Lucy Cornelssen is.

Arunachala Siva.
     

ksksat27

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2015, 09:55:57 AM »
Dear sir,

moving to hear Luci Ma's last days.

I have  a question -- being an ashram with resident devotees, I have heard now and then of devotees passing away in Bhagavan's ashram ( like Kanakkamal, puri swamigal, kunju swami, natesa iyer etc.)

when deovotees die, will the ashram be closed until cremation?  will new visitors have to come the next day for mother shrine, old hall, samadhi hall etc.?

or will ashram run as usual including book depot.

please educate on this. for info only.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2015, 10:34:28 AM »
Dear Krishnan,

No. The Asramam will run as usual.  The authorities will silently arrange for cremation/burial, and there is no impurity
to the Asramam. I was an eye witness when Kanakammal merged with Sri Bhagavan on 1.1.2010.

Arunachala Siva.     

Ravi.N

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2015, 10:42:15 AM »
Subramanian/ksksat/Friends,
Lucy Ma's samadhi is alongside those of Chadwick,Cohen and Khanna-all near Chadwick's cottage in the asramam.To the best of my knowledge the asramam no longer admits internment of deceased devotees.I heard a story that sri viswanatha swami passed away and his body was interned somewhere else and it was Sri Ganesan(who was away at that time)who was instrumental in moving the earthly remains back to the asram compound where it presently is.In fact Sri Ganesan handed over charge of the asramam after interning the body of Ramasami Pillai -It all happened as Mataji Krishnabai had predicted that he would be freed of responsibilities after he had brought back all the old devotees of Sri Bhagavan ,back to sri Ramanasramam and served them till their last days!
Namaskar.

ksksat27

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2015, 11:13:01 AM »
Dear Ravi sir,

Thanks for the valuable info.

Need more info.

Under what circumstances did Sri Ganeshan brought back the earthly remains? Do you mean the buried holy body of Viswanatha Swami was fully brought back? 

I think nourishing devotees as resident devotees inside the ashram is quite a different duty than taking care of the burial inside ashram.

And I think Sri Krishna Bhai emphasized not on internment of samadhi inside ashram but all that She meant was taking care of devotees until they breath their last.

I think the Ashram is very right in avoiding burials inside ashram.

Infact after Bhagavan passed away, there is no means to ascertian whether somebody fully realized the self before leaving the body.

And erecting a samadhi and a lingam on top of a unenlightened soul is not good or correct as per the Thirumular's and other saiva books.

The internal burial must have been stopped immediately after Bhagavan's Maha nirvana.I wonder why it continued for another 50 years.

Regards,
Krishna
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 11:14:54 AM by ksksat27 »

ksksat27

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 11:47:35 AM »
Luci Ma as she was affectionately called by residents of Sri Ramanasramam, is Lucy Cornelssen, a German lady, who came to
have darshan of Sri Bhagavan and she simply stayed there without going back to Germany.  She is the authoress of the book
Hunting the 'I'.

When she took seriously ill, her daughter came from Germany and took care of her till her merger with Arunachala on a 31st
December.  The daughter who is now staying in the Asramam, like her mother was, did not go back to her country having
attracted by Sri Bhagavan's teachings. Nowadays one can see her inside the Asramam, wearing a white sari and having a chain with
Cross, on her neck. She wears kumkum also!  She attends all pujas everyday in the Asramam and also takes the South Indian
food and breakfast served.  She lives not inside the Asramam but somewhere outside the Asramam.

I do not know where the Samadhi of Lucy Cornelssen is.

Arunachala Siva.
     

Dear Subramaniam sir,

Can you kindly elaborate on Smt. Kanakammal's merger at samadhi hall and what happened afterwards?

I am wondering how our Asramam conduct temple worship and naivedhyam when there is ritual pollution? Ofcourse the only assumption they can make is the person decased had attained videha mukthi and hence no ritual pollution.

But it happens rarest of cases and our Bhagavan is not there to educate us on who got it and who passed away for another birth.

Regards,
Krishna

Subramanian.R

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2015, 02:29:07 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Kanakmmal came in a car and entered the Hall, with a stick on her hand and tried  to do Namaskaram to Sri Ramaneswara
Mahalinga. She fell down to prostrate but did not get up.  People lifted her up and went to the dispensary of the Asramam
to see whether she could be given first aid.  But she had already merged with Sri Bhagavan. They took her mortal coil
through the back gate and went to her house which was nearby.  There again, doctors checked her up but with no success.
The cremation took place in the afternoon, I am told.  V. Ganesan and V. S. Ramanan attended the cremation.  This happened
on 1.1. 2010. There is an article in Mountain Path in the very next issue about the whole incident.

Arunachala Siva.       

Nagaraj

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2015, 03:40:40 PM »
Hearsay from reliable sources : as Kanakammal was taken out of the Samadhi hall, she was still breathing unconscious and the breathing stopped only around the asramam wel area. So as per the Agamas, Bhagavan's shrine was excluded from the formal purificatory rituals. All is Bhagavan's leela.

It is also interesting to note here that Asramam itself was previously graveyard, which is a favourite spot for Siva.

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॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2015, 07:40:28 PM »
I think there are two main points to note here:

i) Bhagavan Sri Ramana being an Athiashrami and a pure brahma jnani in same state like that of sanat kumars and his long association with the soil of Ramasramam,  the whole ashram gets life time purification and immunity against any sort of ritual pollution or otherwise.

ii) at the same time, apart from unexpected death like  quoted above, the ashram should not bury the resident devotees inside unless it is very confirmed that the concerned devotee has realized the self.

iii) even if point ii) is not followed, still point i) has the power to nullify the dosham arising due to constructing lingam over unrealized soul.

Nagaraj

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 07:57:25 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

It is prudent to pursue with the instruction of your Guru, rather allow the mind to graze in needless issues.

Waste not a moment in things that are not part of your sadhana. Leave aside the debates and questions of who is realised and who is not realised, who is a siddha and who is not a siddha, purification or pollution and so on...

Of what use or importance is it to you? whether something is polluted or purified?
Of what use or importance is it to you? whether somebody is realised or unrealised?
....so on...

Even the Super Sage-hood of Bhagavan Ramana in the lines of Sanaka and Suka and his being an atiasrami is of no use! one has to put to sincere practice the very teaching or the instruction of a Guru.

Sage Vishwamitra revealed Gayatri Mantra, so what? if one is not chanting the Gayatri and glorifies Sage Vishwamitra? What does it matter to Vishwamitra or other Sages?

The only issue that really matters is whether you - "Am 'I' realised?" and not if others are realised or unrealised?

Bhagavan:

நினைவுகள் தோன்றத் தோன்ற அப்போதைக்கப்போதே அவைகளையெல்லாம் உற்பத்திஸ்தானத்திலேயே விசாரணையால் நசிப்பிக்க வேண்டும்.

As and when thoughts arise, then and there it is necessary to annihilate them all by vicāraṇā [investigation or vigilant self-attentiveness] in the very place from which they arise.



Do not get lost here and there. Get back to source.

--
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 08:07:21 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2015, 07:34:06 AM »
Friends,

An excerpt from Sri Annamalai Swami's diary -Entry no 20:

. ?So and so is great?.?, ?Nay, the other one is great....?-Such a debate lasted for a few days among the devotees of Sri Bhagavan. At last the matter was referred to Sri Bhagavan to adjudicate. Without responding Sri Bhagavan kept mum. Therefore no one had any clarity as to what was right and who was great. They carried on the debate vigorously in Sri Bhagavan?s presence. ?What is this? It looks like they are not going to spare me!?- Realizing thus, the beguiler that Bhagavan was began to speak. He spoke endearing words first to one group, and then to the other. He ended up imparting   words of wisdom in general: ?Irrespective of whatever one attempts to project, only that which is true lasts forever. People cannot decide to confer bondage or moksha on anyone. It is quite natural for everyone to expect that the whole world should recognize and praise him yet by such thinking one cannot attain happiness or greatness. For one who is not satisfying god (seeks fulfillment in god) is lowly only. He who surrenders his body and mind to god in whatsoever manner, Iswara exalts him to be acknowledged and admired by the world.

 
To exemplify this Sri Bhagavan quoted the following three songs from vairagya satakam, sivabodha saram and Sivananda lahari respectively:

1. You desire that the world should proclaim you as a Great one
The iswara who resides in you alone confers Bondage or freedom
What avails it if others know it or not
Be devoted to the Lotus feet of God, Oh mind
Then iswara would raise you to be acknowledged and admired by the world.
                                                                                                                          -vairagya satakam

2. The Scriptures extol the greatness of those
who do not seek their own greatness
Pray tell me, who else shall bear the woes of the world process
Other than those who trumpet that they are great?                     
                                                                                                                             -sivabodha saram
3. O Consort of Bhavani! What is impossible of attainment for him who worships at your lotus feet? From him Yama keeps away fearing a kick on the chest, the celestials do him nirajana (offering of the camphor light) by the light of diamonds set in their crowns, the bride mukti,  locks him in embrace, as soon as she sees him.  What is impossible for him to attain?
                                                                                                                -sivananda lahari (Verse 65)


ksksat27

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2015, 02:54:58 PM »
I think questions are not taken in right spirit and discussed.

What I asked was totally different and in this forum, finally it amounts to equalize
everybody to jnanis.

This is a new sort of neo-advaita.

Whatever it is, now that original purpose of the topic is lost, I dont want to pass any more comments.

Nagaraj

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Re: Luci Ma's Day - 31.12.2014
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2015, 04:04:19 PM »
Dear Krishnan, you seem to be slightly upset. But you need to ponder a moment and see the validity of your beliefs. And we need not look down upon the so called neo advaitins. After all, all are in some quest or other the other. Lets not look down upon anybody, even the scientists who desist spirituality also are in some quest looking for the Truth. The language need not match, the understanding of each others need not match, still all are same, one and the same. There is no neo advaitin there is no advaitin there is no dvaitin there is no scientist, there is no indian there is no american, these are all just names and forms devised for communication purpose.

It is absolutely simple to discern that Everybody is not a Jnani but everybody and everything is Jnanam. Everything is the Lord. Sarvam Khalu idam Brahma, proclaim the vedas. The Lord says in the Gita सर्वस्य चाहं हृदि सन्निविष्टो sarvasya cāhaṃ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo - I am lodged in the heart of all. Therefore it is wrong and a mistake to look with difference at the world and people as Ajnanis. Whether you term it as neo advaita or some thing else, fortunately, it is verily a Truth - equalizing everybody to jnana. After all this is the aim of the Vedas.

Change your vision and the world will appear accordingly. Shape yourself as the embodiment of Peace, Love, and Reverence. Then you will see all as Love.

It is as simple as the snake - rope example. You are seeing the Snake but fail to discern that it is just the rope Like wise is your observation. While all that there is just the rope alone. All that there is just the God principle alone. All that there is is just Brahman alone. but instead of seeing this principle, we see snakes in the names and forms. Cast aside all your knowledge and then see without names and forms? what do you see? what is is just the Essence that is God.

When The Lord resides in everybody, why do we fail to acknowledge His presence? We fail so because we fail to acknowledge the presence of God first in ourselves! If we first look within and acknowledge with conviction that it is God who resides within, what difficulty it should take to see God in one and all? And is it not blasphemous to term anybody as Ajnani when it is GOD who is residing in one and all? Be it sentient or insentient?

The False lies is ones own vision. When we see with mortal eyes, only difference is perceived, but when we see with the eyes of wisdom of the eyes of Divinity, with the eyes of God who resides within, then all that there is is just God principle alone and none else!

I conclude presenting below a couple of small stories:

A person remained silent though he was being criticised. When his friend wanted him to react, he replied, ?The same Atma is present in me as well as in the person who is criticising. So, why should I be annoyed when he is criticising himself?? A deep inquiry into the truth will reveal that when you love or hate others, you love or hate your own self. In fact, there are no ?others.? You consider yourself different from others because of body attachment. Once you give up body attachment, you will realise that there are no others and all are yours. That is the true vision of the Atma. The Atma does not have a specific form. (SSB)

"There was a monastery in a certain place. The monks residing there went out daily to beg their food. One day a monk, while out for his alms, saw a landlord beating a man mercilessly. The compassionate monk stepped in and asked the landlord to stop. But the landlord was filled with anger and turned his wrath against the innocent monk. He beat the monk till he fell unconscious on the ground. Someone reported the matter to the monastery. The monks ran to the spot and found their brother lying there. Four or five of them carried him back and laid him on a bed. He was still unconscious. The other monks sat around him sad at heart; some were fanning him. Finally someone suggested that he should be given a little milk to drink. When it was poured into his mouth he regained consciousness. He opened his eyes and looked around. One of the monks said, 'Let us see whether he is fully conscious and can recognize us.' Shouting into his ear, he said, 'Revered sir, who is giving you milk?' 'Brother,' replied the holy man in a low voice, 'He who beat me is now giving me milk.' (Gospel of SRK)

Sure, this is not easy and it is easier said than done - to look at one and all as God. But we can take baby steps in this regard and it is not achieved by going on the reverse direction looking at the world in duality, with difference. Even if our belief is limited in this regard, still the Guru says so, the Vedas says so, therefore even if i am not completely able to see God in all, i would still regard God in one and all till it becomes natural. This is the right spirit.

best,

--
« Last Edit: January 08, 2015, 04:07:12 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta