Author Topic: confused at this.......?  (Read 13060 times)

drsundaram

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2014, 07:17:04 AM »
thanks  very much shri ravi and shri nagaraj
shri ravi, you are highly resourceful in prodving great links in no time. thanks.is athma bodhendraal's  adhishtanam [samadhi] in gopalapuram?...gopalapuram of chennai?. if yes, where exactly it is there. because when i come to chennai next time i like to go over there.om namo bhagavathe sri ramanaya

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2014, 07:32:41 AM »
Friends,
Here we come to the point in this excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, where Vijay Goswami asks the classic question ,just like Arjuna does in The Bhagavad Gita:

Bhagavad  Gita ,Chapter 3,Verse 1:

jyaayasi cet karmanas te mataa buddhir janaardana
tat kim karmani ghore maam niyOjayasi kEsava
  1

If it is held by you,O Janardana,that knowledge is superior to action,why then do you,O Kesava enjoin on me this terrible action?  1

vyaamisrEnEva vaakyEna buddhim mOhasyasi va mE
tad ekam vada nischitya yena srEyOham aapnuyaam
2

With these perplexing words,you are ,as it were,confusing my comprehension.Tell me with certainty the path by pursuing which I may get at the Supreme. 2

Lord Krishna answers:

LokE smin dvividhaa nishtaa puraa prOktaa mayaa naGa
jnAna yogEna samkhyaanaam karma yOgEna yoginaam
  3

The two fold path was given by me,O sinless one,to the world in the Beginning-the path of Knowledge to the discerning,the path of work to the active. 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
VIJAY: "If without destroying the 'I' a man cannot get rid of attachment to the world and consequently cannot experience samadhi, then it would be wise for him to follow the path of Brahmajnana to attain samadhi. If the 'I' persists in the path of devotion, then one should rather choose the path of knowledge."

The "servant I"

MASTER: "It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samadhi; but these cases are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' The 'I' that feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception.
"The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid of the feeling that one is the body. In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego. Therefore the path of devotion is prescribed for this cycle. This is an easy path. You will attain God if you sing His name and glories and pray to Him with a longing heart. There is not the least doubt about it.
"Suppose you draw a line on the surface of water with a bamboo stick. The water appears to be divided into two parts; but the line doesn't remain for any length of time. The 'servant I'or the 'devotee I' or the 'child I' is only a line drawn with the ego and is not real".

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2014, 07:40:25 AM »
Excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna -The Master and Vijay Goswami continued....

The "ego of a devotee"

VIJAY (to the Master): "Sir, you ask us to renounce the 'wicked I'. Is there any harm in the 'servant I'?"

MASTER: "The 'servant I'-that is, the feeling, 'I am the servant of God, I am the devotee of God'-does not injure one. On the contrary, it helps one to realize God."

VIJAY: "Well, sir, what becomes of the lust, anger, and other passions of one who keeps the 'servant I'?"

MASTER: "If a man truly feels like that, then he has only the semblance of lust, anger, and the like. If, after attaining God, he looks on himself as the servant or the devotee of God, then he cannot injure anyone. By touching the philosopher's stone a sword is turned into gold. It keeps the appearance of a sword but cannot injure.
"When the dry branch of a coconut palm drops to the ground, it leaves only a mark on the trunk indicating that once there was a branch at that place. In like manner, he who has attained God keeps only an appearance of ego; there remains in him only a semblance of anger and lust. He becomes like a child. A child has no attachment to the three gunas sattva, rajas, and tamas. He becomes as quickly detached from a thing as he becomes attached to it. You can cajole him out of a cloth worth five rupees with a doll worth an anna, though at first he may say with great determination: 'No, I won't give it to you. My daddy bought it for me.' Again, all persons are the same to a child. He has no feeling of high and low in regard to persons. So he doesn't discriminate about caste. If his mother tells him that a particular man should be regarded as an elder brother, the child will eat from the same plate with him, though the man may belong to the low caste of a blacksmith. The child doesn't know hate, or what is holy or unholy.
"Even after attaining samadhi, some retain the 'servant ego' or the 'devotee ego'. The bhakta keeps this 'I-consciousness'. He says, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant; Thou art the Lord and I am Thy devotee.' He feels that way even after the realization of God. His 'I' is not completely effaced. Again, by constantly practising this kind of 'Iconsciousness', one ultimately attains God. This is called bhaktiyoga.

"One can attain the Knowledge of Brahman, too, by following the path of bhakti. God is all-powerful. He may give His devotee Brahmajnana also, if He so wills. But the devotee generally doesn't seek the Knowledge of the Absolute. He would rather have the consciousness that God is the Master and he the servant, or that God is the Divine Mother and he the child."

We next find Vijay asking the master another question like Arjuna-to ascertain that all paths lead to the same goal.
continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2014, 07:49:03 AM »
Excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna -The Master and Vijay Goswami continued....

VIJAY: "But those who discriminate according to the Vedanta philosophy also realize Him in the end, don't they?"

Path of bhakti is easy

MASTER: "Yes, one may reach Him by following the path of discrimination too: that is called Jnanayoga. But it is an extremely difficult path. I have told you already of the seven planes of consciousness. On reaching the seventh plane the mind goes into samadhi. If a man acquires the firm knowledge that Brahman alone is real and the world illusory, then his mind merges in samadhi. But in the Kaliyuga the life of a man depends entirely on food. How can he have the consciousness that Brahman alone is real and the world illusory? In the Kaliyuga it is difficult to have the feeling, 'I am not the body, I am not the mind, I am not the twenty-four cosmic principles; I am beyond pleasure and pain, I am above disease and grief, old age and death.' However you may reason and argue, the feeling that the body is identical with the soul will somehow crop up from an unexpected quarter. You may cut a peepal-tree to the ground and think it is dead to its very root, but the next morning you will find a new sprout shooting up from the dead stump. One cannot get rid of this identification with the body; therefore the path of bhakti is best for the people of the Kaliyuga. It is an easy path.

......................
........................
(Again now Vijay asks a counter question)
VIJAY: "Is bhakti alone sufficient for the attainment of God, for His vision?"

MASTER: "Yes, one can see God through bhakti alone. But it must be 'ripe' bhakti, premabhakti and raga-bhakti. When one has that bhakti, one loves God even as the mother loves the child, the child the mother, or the wife the husband.
"When one has such love and attachment for God, one doesn't feel the attraction of maya to wife, children, relatives, and friends. One retains only compassion for them. To such a man the world appears a strange land, a place where he has merely to perform his duties. It is like a man's having his real home in the country, but coming to Calcutta for work; he has to rent a house in Calcutta for the sake of his duties. When one develops love of God, one completely gets rid of one's attachment to the world and worldly wisdom.
"One cannot see God if one has even the slightest trace of worldliness. Match-sticks, if damp, won't strike fire though you rub a thousand of them against the match-box. You only waste a heap of sticks. The mind soaked in worldliness is such a damp match-stick. Once Sri Radha said to her friends that she saw Krishna everywhere-both within and without. The friends answered: 'Why, we don't see Him at all. Are you delirious?' Radha said, 'Friends, paint your eyes with the collyrium of divine love, and then you will see Him.'
(To Vijay) "It is said in a song of your Brahmo Samaj:

O Lord, is it ever possible to know Thee without love,
However much one may perform worship and sacrifice?

"If the devotee but once feels this attachment and ecstatic love for God, this mature devotion and longing, then he sees God in both His aspects, with form and without form."

continued......

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2014, 07:55:46 AM »
Excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna -The Master and Vijay Goswami continued....

Purity of heart

VIJAY: "How can one see God?"
MASTER: "One cannot see God without purity of heart. Through attachment to 'woman and gold' the mind has become stained-covered with dirt, as it were. A magnet cannot attract a needle if the needle is covered with mud. Wash away the mud and the magnet will draw it. Likewise, the dirt of the mind can be washed away with the tears of our eyes. This stain is removed if one sheds tears of repentance and says, 'O God, I shall never again do such a thing.' Thereupon God, who is like the magnet, draws to Himself the mind, which is like the needle. Then the devotee goes into samadhi and obtains the vision of God.

God's grace is the ultimate help

"You may try thousands of times, but nothing can be achieved without God's grace. One cannot see God without His grace. Is it an easy thing to receive the grace of God? One must altogether renounce egotism; one cannot see God as long as one feels, 'I am the doer.'
Suppose, in a family, a man has taken charge of the store-room; then if someone asks the master, 'Sir, will you yourself kindly give me something from the store-room?', the master says to him: 'There is already someone in the store-room. What can I do there?'
"God doesn't easily appear in the heart of a man who feels himself to be his own master. But God can be seen the moment His grace descends. He is the Sun of Knowledge. One single ray of His has illumined the world with the light of knowledge. That is how we are able to see one another and acquire varied knowledge. One can see God only if He turns His light toward His own face.(This is exactly what the upanishad says-That atman is realized by the atman alone-Ravi)
"The police sergeant goes his rounds in the dark of night with a lantern in his hand. No one sees his face; but with the help of that light the sergeant sees everybody's face, and others, too, can see one another. If you want to see the sergeant, however, you must pray to him: 'Sir, please turn the light on your own face. Let me see you.' In the same way one must pray to God: 'O Lord, be gracious and turn the light of knowledge on Thyself, that I may see Thy face.'
"A house without light indicates poverty. So one must light the lamp of Knowledge in one's heart. As it is said in a song:

"Lighting the lamp of Knowledge in the chamber of your heart,
Behold the face of the Mother, Brahman's Embodiment."

As Vijay had brought medicine with him, the Master asked a devotee to give him some water. He was indeed a fountain of infinite compassion. He had arranged for Vijay's boat fare, since the latter was too poor to pay it. Vijay, Balaram, M., and the other devotees left for Calcutta in a country boat.

concluded.

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2014, 08:03:40 AM »
drsundaram,
The samadhi of Sri Bhagavan nAma bodhendra is at the very place you visited-Govindapuram.Please check this site,the photographs do not show up properly:
http://www.heritagetown.org/govindapuram.html
The Govindapuram Bodhendral adhishtanam is the samadhi of this Great soul.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2014, 08:31:44 AM »
drsundaram,
you have asked about atma bodhendra samadhi.It is in a village called 'vadavambalam' near vizhuppuram.Sri kAnchi mahAswAmi located it.Here is an extract:

Quote
In the year 1926 while on padayatra Mahaperiyava was crossing Vizhupuram. Periyava got a divine call and suddenly entered a Village called ?Vadavambalam? along with his sishyas. Mahaperiyava then enquired the elderly people in that village whether they know about any Sannyasi who lived in that village? Unfortunately no one was aware of any such sannyasi. However one old person in the crowd came forward and told Periyava that he heard that some few hundred years back there lived a Sannyasi who later attained samadhi in that Village but unfortunately there is no trace available currently about the exact place where the Sannyasi attained Samadhi.
Paramachrya realized that is the place, where the 58th Pontiff of Kanchi Kama Koti Peetam Sri Atma Bodhendra Saraswati who was the Guru of Bhodendra Saraswati Swamigal of Govindapuram, must have attained samadhi. He then wandered the entire village and while crossing a plaintain field He sensed some thing different and told one of his sishya who accompanied him to dig one particular spot.
One Kumaramangalam Sambamoorthy Shastrigal was supervising the activity. When the digging was in progress suddenly there was a huge crying voice from Sambamoorthy Shastrigal ?Don?t Dig?. Don?t Dig? and fell unconscious on the filed. The sishya who was was digging shocked and stopped digging. He then gave water to Shastrigal who woke up to reality after a long gap. Shastrigal then told the following which is breathtaking.

I heard Sri Ganesa Sarma narrating this incident in his sapthaham talks on the Mahaswami's life.You may read the excerpt here:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=303973136329274&id=225328724193716

Namaskar

drsundaram

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2014, 09:22:54 AM »
thank you shri ravi
i am aware of govindapuram which ass bhagavan nama bhodhendral adhishtanam and seen many times.  since you said about gopalapuram [hope i am recalling correctly] i was bit confused abot athma bodhendral's samadhi. I have heard of athma bodhendraal in vadavambalam. want to  go there aeap. namaskaram
om namo bhagvathe sri ramanyaa

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2014, 09:59:29 AM »
drsundaram,
sorry about the mixup.I meant govindapuram when I referred to the jiva samadhi of Nama BodhendrAL.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2014, 09:52:41 PM »
drsundaram/friends,
Going back to the fundamental question-Atma vichara or Nama sankeertana-The fundamental objective of all sadhana is to turn the mind inwards and make it subside at the source.As long as this objective is met,the sadhana will be effective.
I agree with what nagaraj has said- that Mumukshutva is the essential thing to pursue sadhana.What then constitutes maturity?The mind is said to be mature when one is steadfast and resolute in the sadhana,and the mind is forever oriented and fixed in the Divine.The mind is not assailed by any sort of doubt and is not distracted by anything else.It naturally flows towards the source in an uninterrupted fashion.Nothing in the world or its object can divert it from this inner orientation.

For such a one,as Sri Bhagavan has said in his wonderful atma vidya kirtanam-Anma Viddhai athi sulabham,aiyyE anma Viddhai athi sulabham.
Lo,Atma vidya is very easy,Lo,very easy indeed.Even for the most infirm,so real is the Self that compared with it the Amalak in One's hand appears a mere illusion.

When something becomes our very nature,it becomes easy.The mind freed from worldliness automatically gravitates towards the Self.

Sri Ramakrishna says:

Quote
Reality is one and the same. The difference is only in name. He who is Brahman is verily Atman, and again, He is the Bhagavan. He is Brahman to the followers of the path of knowledge, Paramatman to the yogis, and Bhagavan to the lovers of God.

Namaskar

drsundaram

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2014, 07:12:45 AM »
lovely shri ravi. very aptly and well explained with appropriate references.
om namo bhagavathe sri ramanaya.

ksksat27

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2014, 12:19:52 PM »
i read..

ஸ்ரீ போதேந்திர அமுதம் [போதேந்திரரின் பொன் மொழிகள் ] என்ற புஸ்தகத்தில் " ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து நாம கீர்த்தனம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு பலன்கள் சித்திக்காது.ஆனால் நாமகீர்த்தனம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு மோட்சம் உள்ளிட்ட எல்லா பலன்களும் கிட்டும்.குணமற்ற பரம்பொருளை நாடுபவனும் குணம் நிறை பரம்பொருளை வழிபட்டே தனது இலக்கை அடையமுடியும் "

is it differing from Sri Bhagavan's core preaching?

can i be updated  please......... in detail  ​

Dear sundram sir,

Seems currently your doubts are cleared.

i have one imp thing to say.

Every Guru is very unique.  We definitely cannot compare notes between two Gurus and try to see a unity. We may sometimes see a unity but we may not many times.

Their teaching style, their stress etc. will vary in a large scale.

One should have commitment to one Guru, one school of thought and proceed in that line only.

Otherwise we will end up preparing a Kichadi with all flavours .

Bodhedhral is a true saint of bhakthi school.

Bhagavan Ramana was a true sage in same state as that of Sukha Brahmam.

For us Ramana devotees, his words are the vedas. the booklet who am i is the upanishad.

self enquiry and arunachala shiva devotion are the two wings with which we sadhakas fly.

in Sri Ramana school of thought, there is no confusion at all.

both japa and self enquiry are important.

However bad we perform self enquiry,  it is the earnestness that is important.