Author Topic: confused at this.......?  (Read 12930 times)

drsundaram

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confused at this.......?
« on: August 07, 2014, 07:02:21 PM »
i read..

ஸ்ரீ போதேந்திர அமுதம் [போதேந்திரரின் பொன் மொழிகள் ] என்ற புஸ்தகத்தில் " ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து நாம கீர்த்தனம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு பலன்கள் சித்திக்காது.ஆனால் நாமகீர்த்தனம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு மோட்சம் உள்ளிட்ட எல்லா பலன்களும் கிட்டும்.குணமற்ற பரம்பொருளை நாடுபவனும் குணம் நிறை பரம்பொருளை வழிபட்டே தனது இலக்கை அடையமுடியும் "

is it differing from Sri Bhagavan's core preaching?

can i be updated  please......... in detail  ​

Nagaraj

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 07:18:11 PM »
it doesn't appear like போதேந்திரரின் பொன் மொழிகள், it more appears like the writer's பொன் மொழிகள் :D (just in a lighter vein)

sometimes, we need to ignore what is straight away felt as fishy! can any Guru's preaching differ from the Vedas? No Guru truly differ from each other. In most books, we will certainly find some overhead transmissions and translations, which can be conveniently overseen.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2014, 08:06:02 AM »
Friends,
I warmly recommend 'kAmakOti rAmakOti'-by rA ganapathi ,on the life of Sri Atma Bodhendra(58th pontiff of the kanchi kamakoti peetam)and his disciple Sri Bhagavan nAma Bodhendra(59th pontiff of the kAnchi kAmakOti peetam).
rA ganapathi is a supremely gifted writer,besides a great sadhaka as well.His writing style is quite vivid and has the rare quality of taking the reader directly to the subject matter ,whatever that be and immersing him in that.
Those who are interested into getting a whiff of this may read a translation of the opening page in this wonderful book here:
http://scorpionwings-mathangi.blogspot.in/2013/07/kamakoti-ramakoti-part-1.html

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 08:17:29 AM »
drsundaram,
What is said in the passage quoted by you is not without sense.Lord Sri Krishna says this in the Bhagavad gita ,as also Sri Ramakrishna.The reason simply is this-Atma vichara requires a very ripe state of mind(we may not find it comfortable to reckon with this!) and to get to this ,all the preliminary steps have to be gone through.
I will also quote what Sri Bhagavan has said regarding this.
In saying this,I am not discouraging people from doing 'self-enquiry'.I am only saying that unless one is in such a state wherein identification with the body consciousness is worn out,self enquiry is not possible(we may think that we are doing it).More on this later,when i find time.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Upadesa Manjari -Sri Bhagavan & Sadhu Natananananda
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2014, 11:38:38 AM »
drsundaram/Friends,
Please refer to the wonderful book-Upadesa Manjari.This is a lesser known book by sadhu natanananda,a direct disciple of Bhagavan.It is crisp and covers all aspects of sadhana.
Please view it here:
http://bhagavan-ramana.org/spiritualinstruction.html

Now we may see Sri Bhagavan's response to a few key questions:
under chapter 2,question No:2,

2. Can this path of enquiry be followed by all aspirants?
Bhagavan:This is suitable only for the ripe souls. The rest should follow different methods according to the state of their minds.

and again in the same chapter 2,Question No:20

20. What is the sign of wisdom (viveka)?
Bhagavan:Its beauty lies in remaining free from delusion after realising the truth once. There is fear only for one who sees at least a slight difference in the Supreme Brahman. So long as there is the idea that the body is the Self one cannot be a realizer of truth whoever he might be.

We find that Sri Bhagavan also advocates other practices and reveals their place and efficacy.

I will post later on what Lord Sri Krishna says in the Gita and what Sri Ramakrishna has to say on the topic that you have raised.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2014, 01:22:42 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi, friends,

some humble thoughts...

while what you have expressed is quite resonate with the true spirit. But, what was expressed in the tamil doesn't seem to carry the same good spirit as you have well expressed in your posts.

While we see on one hand that self enquiry is fit only for ripe souls, on the other hand, Bhagavan at several occasions answered quite
contrarily. Once Bhagavan was teaching about Self Enquiry to some small child and when somebody questioned to Bhagavan in eall earnestness to Bhagavan as to how a small child could get a grasp of what He was conveying to the child, Bhagavan replied saying, does one grasp only through mind?

in another occasion Bhagavan was found teaching Self enquiry to some animals (monkey?) and a devotee who was amused at it and question to Bhagavan, as to how can that animal understand such exalted atma vidya to monkey, to which Bhagavan said, I am also telling you all about atma vidya. How many of you have understood this? Like that some monkeys also among these would understand atma vidya!

Once an old lady working in the village came to see Bhagavan Ramana in the Hill.  She was in great distress, all sorts of family problems.  Bhagavan Ramana went near her and asked about her difficulties.  The old lady tearfully explained everything.  Bhagavan Ramana paused for a while and asked her:  "Do you get these problems, when you are deep asleep?"  The lady said: "No, Swami!" Bhagavan Ramana then said: "It is because your mind is quelled during your sleep and no problems appear there. Why not you try to be in that state of quiscent mind,without worrying about anything?" Whether the lady understood or not, she left Bhagavan Ramana,
thanking Him.

Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni came to Bhagavan Ramana and said: "Bhagavan Ramana!  Why do you say all this to her?  What can she understand?  If you had directed her to me, at least I should have told her to chant Panchakshari mantra!" Bhagavan Ramana said:  "Nayana!  I can tell her only what I know?  How can I say what I do not know?  Each one should say only what he knows!"

We have seen in so many various instances where he spoke to animals, dogs, monkeys instructing them about self enquiry.

The main point i felt is what is "ripeness?" how can any body judge oneself if one is ripe or not? that itself is a great impediment, and really wise people do not express as such as ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து நாம கீர்த்தனம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு பலன்கள் சித்திக்காது

The question of ripeness does not arise at all. The expressions of the writer merely only seem to lure people to Nama Sankirtanam, perhaps in good spirit only maybe, but when he says ஆனால் நாமகீர்த்தனம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு மோட்சம் உள்ளிட்ட எல்லா பலன்களும் கிட்டும் clearly shows his one sided view as a staunch Nama Sankirthanam advocate, which proclaims that Nama Sankirthanam alone to be  means for மோட்சம் or liberation.

On the other hand, if the writer had said that Atma Vicharam and Nama Sankirthanam complement each other, that for one who does Nama Sankirthanam and Self Enquiry side by side and for one who does Nama Sankirthanam and Atma Vichara side by side or even if he had said, if one exclusively whole hardheartedly does only Nama Sankirthanam alone, with absolute steadfastness and faith, that alone is enough to the attainment of மோட்சம் or liberation, then there would not have been any confusion in the question here.

More over, Even if we speak of ripeness, the same ripeness also is eventually required for Nama Sankirthanam also. It is not to be mis understood that those who are lacking in ripeness or ashraddha, can easily attain liberation through paths such as Nama Sankirthanam. This is a misunderstanding going at large these days. Therefore, question of ripeness is actually to be looked in to carefully.

Ultimately it is based on ones inclination, and to begin with all will lack ripeness, there will be a slack in faith and casualness in the path one in inclined with. Eventually, one has to strive hard, and with the grace of the Lord, and with a proper reasoning, one  has to come to conclusion that yes, i need to strive diligently to become eligible to the grace of Lord in the path i am in, be it Nama Sankirthanam or Self Enquiry or any other.

Everybody has to become ripe. It is not that the ripeness of Atma Vicharam is greater than the ripeness of Nama Sankirthanam.

They all stand in the same spirit.

Therefore what is ripeness, if you are really willing to give in your heart and soul for the attainment of God, that is ripeness.

Mumukshatvam alone is ripeness.

--
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 01:48:34 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2014, 03:31:59 PM »
Nagaraj,
I understand what you have expressed.I have not read the Tamizh book mentioned by drsundaram.I have taken what was quoted as follows:
ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து நாம கீர்த்தனம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு பலன்கள் சித்திக்காது.ஆனால் நாமகீர்த்தனம் செய்து கொண்டிருந்து ஆத்ம விசாரம் செய்யாதவனுக்கு மோட்சம் உள்ளிட்ட எல்லா பலன்களும் கிட்டும்.
I have taken this as a general piece of advice and this has a validity.I will cover this in my subsequent posts,later on when I find time.
Essentially,what this statement aims at is this-'Please do not underestimate the efficacy of nama.Through it alone one may attain the Highest Good.On the other hand , one who thinks that pursuing jnana vichara alone will lead to Jnana,and on that score ignores the other practices as of lesser value-such a one will not attain anything'.

The comparison is between one who thinks that he is pursuing an exclusive path,ignoring the other practices(thinking it to be superior to others) and one who is pursuing a path which is a common man's path- where he can put his heart and soul(as you have said).The later is not pursuing it as 'exclusive'-it just is the only one he knows. Even if he does not pursue Atma Vichara,he will attain to the Supreme Jnana.

I will cover more on this later on when I find time.

Namaskar.

drsundaram

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2014, 09:09:42 PM »
sorry [by posting what i have read in the book quoted by me ]  i am to be excused if I am a  cause  for triggering any  arguments and debates. thanks  mr ravi for writing with refs.  Mr nagaraj to please note that it is not my writing  though you have offset it by mentioning  as in lighter vein. that book was  purchased by me at govindapuram recently when there was  rama nama likitha yagna was conducted wherein several books was sold and this is one. In fact the book  in further paragraphs  emphatically prefers  nama keerthana over athma vichara.  if any one wants it to verify i can courier it , highlighting the points which needed   clarity to me.  nowhere in the book it is said that one can take recourse to  athma vichara  [as Bhagvan has said] if the mind is not ripe enough .Out  and out it professes only nama keerthan for attaining moksha/mukthi and places nama sankeerthana only in first place. I do  not know whether this is what professed by sri bodhendral himself  or the author who has written the book inadvertently understood so and not  know anything beyond.
any way my earnestness is to understand clearly which is vital for a sadhaka>> athma vichara or nama keerthana ?.
while welcoming kind inputs from our  esteemed members I want only  to learn the correctness  of the subject matter &  i stop with this submission on this topic. Om namo Bhagavathe sri ramanaya

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2014, 09:44:59 PM »
drsundaram,
How wonderful that you had been to Govindapuram (and must have visited Sri BodhendrAl samadhi).His guru Atma Bodhenra  was a contemporary and spiritual friend of the other greats-Sadasiva Brahmendra and sridhara AiyyAvAl.
Sri rA ganapathi's excellent 'kAmakOti rAmakOti' (The Life of Atma Bodendra and bhagavan nama Bodendra)is available for free download here:

http://divyavidyatrust.org/ebooks.html

It is the 4th item from the top.

Sri Bhagavan nAma BOdendra spread the rAma nAma and he entered into jiva samAdhi in gOpalapuram.It is said that sensitive sadhakas can still hear rAma nama chanting in this place.

Please do not feel sorry that your innocent query has triggered any debate or discussion here.You have asked this in right earnest and truly what is expressed in that book is not atma vichara vs nama sankeertana.It just emphasizes the glory of nAma.Anything done whole heartedly as nagaraj has said is bound to be fruitful.

This is what Sri Bhagavan once said to a person:

18th June, 1935 Talk 55.(Tals with Sri Ramana Maharshi)

D.: Can advaita be realised by japa of holy names; say Rama, Krishna, etc.?
M.: Yes.
D.: Is it not a means of an inferior order?
M.: Have you been told to make japa or to discuss its order in the scheme of things.


Namaskar.


Nagaraj

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2014, 11:24:45 PM »
Dear Dr Sundaram,

i only meant the author when i mentioned as the "writer" and never referred to you as the writer :) . Also, i never felt, i was arguing either, i was just plainly expressing myself, from heart like everybody, and i think i have been reasonably clear, even though, i may lack the language etiquette as i am not that well equipped with it. Personally, i appreciate all paths, and all paths play a role in an aspirant, i believe nothing to be superior or inferior. In a Hill, from whichever side you proceed, you will only proceed upwards and to the summit.

I have been to Bodhendral Samadhi quite a few times, and have stayed there as well. It always reminds me of Ramana Maharshi Samadhi, both are similar, however there have been recent renovations. My favorite place is the Go-Shala. That is the place I like to spend most of my time with calves and cows.

I do not know who the author is, i merely expressed my views to the couple of sentences quoted by you, which fairly is not expressed well enough by the author, if it may seem harsh to say, but yes, it did sound a little biased to me, i have to blame my mind for that :) But you have mentioned it as well in your post as well
Quote
"In fact the book  in further paragraphs  emphatically prefers  nama keerthana over athma vichara."

This is what i was contesting, it just goes like the ones who say only self enquiry alone is the path to liberation. But the only good intention of the expressions of the author would be to motivate those that find solace by way of Nama Sankirtana. The expressions in the book is something like a Mother saying emphatically that her elder child is more preferred to the younger one, is it not? After all both are her children, none can be superior or inferior to the Mother.

And some times, its ok even if some heat is triggered in any discussions, and we should be even ok with some such triggers as well, would it not be a blessing to work ourselves out of that heat? (but not in this case, at the least :) )


« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 11:35:42 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2014, 11:50:38 PM »
Let the Eyes look at the Lord, 
Let the Ears listen to the Lord
Let the Mouth sing the Lord
Let the Limbs serve the Lord
Let the Mind contemplate on the Lord
Let the Heart reside in the Lord

What matters if this is called Self Enquiry or Nama Sankirthana or Yoga. Let all those who have some term for it, call it! is the term is of any significance, for the one who engages as above?

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2014, 11:53:24 PM »
Friends,
In chapter 12 of Srimad Bhagavad Gita,Arjuna poses the classical question in the very first verse:

evam satata yuktaa ye bhaktas tvam paryupaasatEy
ye chaapi aksharam avyaktam teshaam ke yogavittamaah 1

Those devotees who,ever steadfast ,worship you thus,and those again who worship the Imperishable and the unmanifest-Which of these are better versed in Yoga?

Sri Krishna answers:
mayy Avesya mano ye maam nitya yuktaa upaasatey
sraddhayaa parayO pEytaas tEy mEy yuktatamaa mataah 2

Those who have fixed their minds on Me,and who,ever steadfast and endowed with supreme sraddha,worship Me-them I consider perfect in yoga.

He further adds:

ye tv aksharam anirdesyam avyaktam paryupaasatEy
sarvatragam acintyam ca kutastham acalam dhruvam  3

But those who worship the imperishable,the indefinable,the unmanifest,the omnipresent,the unthinkable,the unchangeable,the immovable,the Eternal-

samniyamye indriyagraamam sarvatra samabuddhayah
te praapnuvanti maam eva sarva bhuta hitEy rataah     4

Having restrained all the senses,even minded everywhere,engaged in the welfare of all beings-Verily they also come to Me.

But then he makes this important distinction in verse 5 between the two approaches:

klEsO adhiktaras tesaam avyaktaasakta cetasaam
avyaktaa hi gatir duhkham dehavadbhir avaapyatEy
5.

Greater is their difficulty whose minds are set on the unmanifested,for the goal of unmanifested is very hard for the embodied to reach.

The rest of the verses in this chapter then goes on to expound how the sadhaka has to proceed and what are the characteristics of the devotee dear to the lord etc.
The key point here is the recognition of the difficulty in treading the path of jnAna (Nirguna upAsana) for the embodied soul.
We will next proceed to The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the Master says exactly the same as what Lord Sri Krishna has said here,as to where the main difficulty lies in the path of jnAna,and like Sri Krishna he maintains that the practitioners of the path of jnAna and the practitioners of the path of Bhakti attain to the same goal.

Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2014, 12:39:26 AM »
Friends,
I am posting a few excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.In reading these excerpts,we need to bear in mind that the master advocated all paths and was never partial to any.We will also find that what he is saying here is exactly what Lord Sri Krishna had said in the Bhagavad Gita.

1.To follow jnanayoga in this age is also very difficult. First, a man's life depends entirely on food. Second, he has a short span of life. Third, he can by no means get rid of body consciousness; and the Knowledge of Brahman is impossible without the destruction of body-consciousness. The jnani says: 'I am Brahman; I am not the body. I am beyond hunger and thirst, disease and grief, birth and death, pleasure and pain.' How can you be a jnani if you are conscious of disease, grief, pain, pleasure, and the like? A thorn enters your flesh, blood flow from the wound, and you suffer very badly from the pain; but nevertheless, if you are a jnani you must be able to say: 'Why, there is no thorn in my flesh at all. Nothing is the matter with me'.

2.The rishis of old attained the Knowledge of Brahman. One cannot have this so long as there is the slightest trace of worldliness. How hard the rishis laboured! Early in the morning they would go away from the hermitage, and would spend the whole day in solitude, meditating on Brahman. At night they would return to the hermitage and eat a little fruit or roots. They kept their minds aloof from the objects of sight, hearing, touch, and other things of a worldly nature. Only thus did they realize Brahman as their own inner consciousness.
"But in the Kaliyuga, man, being totally dependent on food for life, cannot altogether shake off the idea that he is the body. In this state of mind it is not proper for him to say, 'I am He.' When a man does all sorts of worldly things, he should not say, 'I am Brahman.' Those who cannot give up attachment to worldly things, and who find no means to shake off the feeling of 'I', should rather cherish the idea 'I am God's servant; I am His devotee.' One can also realize God by following the path of devotion.

3.As long as one is conscious of the body, one is also conscious of objects. Form, taste, smell, sound, and touch-these are the objects. It is extremely difficult to get rid of the consciousness of objects. And one cannot realize 'I am He' as long as one is aware of objects.

What lord Krishna has said in chapter 12 verse 5 as the 'Difficulty' for the 'embodied' soul  is exactly the same as what Sri Ramakrishna has said.
Now the important thing is that just because something is difficult,it does not mean that it is impossible or beyond our reach.It is worthwhile to take into account the challenges involved-Just what it means to get rid of the sense of 'I' and 'mine'.What these Great ones are advocating is that we need to have total vairagya,viveka and Bhakti and if this is intensified ,this is the same as jnAna.This is the natural progression for common folks.

There is another wonderful chapter -The Master and Vijay Goswami (chapter 7) where Vijay asks exactly like what arjuna had asked in the Gita.I will post this a little later.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2014, 07:02:13 AM »
Friends,
Excerpt from Chapter 7 of The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna -THE MASTER AND VIJAY GOSWAMI Thursday, December 14, 1882

IT WAS AFTERNOON. Sri Ramakrishna was sitting on his bed after a short noonday rest. Vijay, Balaram, M., and a few other devotees were sitting on the floor with their faces toward the Master. They could see the sacred river Ganges through the door. Since it was winter all were wrapped up in warm clothes. Vijay had been suffering from colic and had brought some medicine with him.

Vijay, the Brahmo preacher

Vijay was a paid preacher in the Sadharan Brahmo Samaj, but there were many things about which he could not agree with the Samaj authorities. He came from a very noble family of Bengal noted for its piety and other spiritual qualities. Advaita Goswami, one of his remote ancestors, had been an intimate companion of Sri Chaitanya. Thus the blood of a great lover of God flowed in Vijay's veins. As an adherent of the Brahmo Samaj, Vijay no doubt meditated on the formless Brahman; but his innate love of God, inherited from his distinguished ancestors, had merely been waiting for the proper time to manifest itself in all its sweetness. Thus Vijay was irresistibly attracted by the God-intoxicated state of Sri Ramakrishna and often sought his company. He would listen to the Master's words with great respect, and they would dance together in an ecstasy of divine love.
It was a week-day. Generally devotees came to the Master in large numbers on Sundays; hence those who wanted to have intimate talks with him visited him on week-days.
.................
.................

Ego alone the cause of bondage

VIJAY: "Sir, why are we bound like this? Why don't we see God?"
MASTER: "Maya is nothing but the egotism of the embodied soul. This egotism has covered everything like a veil. 'All troubles come to an end when the ego dies.' If by the
grace of God a man but once realizes that he is not the doer, then he at once becomes a Jivanmukta. Though living in the body, he is liberated. He has nothing else to fear.
"This maya, that is to say, the ego, is like a cloud. The sun cannot be seen on account of a thin patch of cloud; when that disappears one sees the sun. If by the grace of the guru one's ego vanishes, then one sees God.
"Rama, who is God Himself, was only two and a half cubits ahead of Lakshmana. But Lakshmana couldn't see Him because Sita stood between them. Lakshmana may be compared to the jiva, and Sita to maya. Man cannot see God on account of the barrier of maya. Just look: I am creating a barrier in front of my face with this towel. Now you can't see me, even though I am so near. Likewise, God is the nearest of all, but we cannot see Him on account of this covering of maya.

Maya creates upadhis

"The jiva is nothing but the embodiment of Satchidananda. But since maya, or ego, has created various upadhis, he has forgotten his real Self.
"Each upadhi changes man's nature. If he wears a fine black-bordered cloth, you will at once find him humming Nidhu Babu's love-songs. Then playing-cards and a walking-stick follow. If even a sickly man puts on high boots, he begins to whistle and climbs the stairs like an Englishman, jumping from one step to another. If a man but holds a pen in his hand, he scribbles on any paper he can get hold of-such is the power of the pen!
"Money is also a great upadhi. The possession of money makes such a difference in a man! He is no longer the same person. A brahmin used to frequent the temple garden. Outwardly he was very modest. One day I went to Konnagar with Hriday. No sooner did we get off the boat than we noticed the brahmin seated on the bank of the Ganges. We thought he had been enjoying the fresh air. Looking at us, he said: 'Hello there, priest! How do you do?' I marked his tone and said to Hriday: 'The man must have got some money. That's why he talks that way.' Hriday laughed.
"A frog had a rupee, which he kept in his hole. One day an elephant was going over the hole, and the frog, coming out in a fit of anger, raised his foot, as if to kick the elephant, and said, 'How dare you walk over my head?' Such is the pride that money begets!
"One can get rid of the ego after the attainment of Knowledge. On attaining Knowledge one goes into samadhi, and the ego disappears. But it is very difficult to obtain such Knowledge".

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: confused at this.......?
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2014, 07:08:32 AM »
Excerpt from the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna -The Master and Vijay Goswami continued....

Seven planes of the mind
"It is said in the Vedas that a man experiences samadhi when his mind ascends to the seventh plane. The ego can disappear only when one goes into samadhi. Where does the mind of a man ordinarily dwell? In the first three planes. These are at the organs of evacuation and generation, and at the navel. Then the mind is immersed only in worldliness, attached to 'woman and gold'. A man sees the light of God when his mind dwells in the plane of the heart. He sees the light and exclaims: 'Ah! What is this? What is this?' The next plane is at the throat. When the mind dwells there he likes to hear and talk only of God. When the mind ascends to the next plane, in the forehead, between the eyebrows, he sees the form of Satchidānanda and desires to touch and embrace It. But he is unable to do so. It is like the light in a lantern, which you can see but cannot touch. You feel as if you were touching the light, but in reality you are not. When the mind reaches the seventh plane, then the ego vanishes completely and the man goes into samadhi."

Indescribability of highest plane

VIJAY: "What does a man see when he attains the Knowledge of Brahman after reaching the seventh plane?"
MASTER: "What happens when the mind reaches the seventh plane cannot be described.
"Once a boat enters the 'black waters' of the ocean, it does not return. Nobody knows what happens to the boat after that. Therefore the boat cannot give us any information about the ocean.
"Once a salt doll went to measure the depth of the ocean. No sooner did it enter the water than it melted. Now who could tell how deep the ocean was? That which could have told about its depth had melted. Reaching the seventh plane, the mind is annihilated; man goes into samadhi. What he feels then cannot be described in words.

The "wicked I"

"The 'I' that makes one a worldly person and attaches one to 'woman and gold' is the 'wicked I'. The intervention of this ego creates the difference between jiva and Atman. Water appears to be divided into two parts if one puts a stick across it. But in reality there is only one water. It appears as two on account of the stick. This 'I' is the stick. Remove the stick and there remains only one water as before.
"Now, what is this 'wicked I'? It is the ego that says: 'What? Don't they know me? I have so much money! Who is wealthier than I?' If a thief robs such a man of only ten rupees, first of all he wrings the money out of the thief, then he gives him a good beating. But the matter doesn't end there: the thief is handed over to the police and is eventually sent to jail. The 'wicked I' says: 'What? Doesn't the rogue know whom he has robbed? To steal my ten rupees! How dare he?' "

continued....