Author Topic: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai  (Read 2918 times)

ksksat27

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An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« on: August 01, 2014, 02:28:09 PM »
I have read this verse sometime before and again re-read it (only English version) in Sadhu Om website. The below meaning clearly says that we should not too much worry about mundane body needs and run after them. If we are sincere in sadhana, that alone will do.

Can somebody paste here for me the tamil original verese?  Verse number 150

Those who have realized that Prarabdha (Fate) will take care of the body, will not feel anxious and wander about seeking food and so on. All the enjoyments ordained by Prarabdha will surely come. Hence it is clear that craving and rejecting (likes and dislikes) are the deluding acts of mind.

-Verse 150


Subramanian.R

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 02:43:34 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

The Verse says that Prarabdha will take care of even the food that is required.  One need not seek it with efforts.  Because
any efforts cannot overcome Prarabdha.  There are several examples in Sri Bhagavan's life itself.  When He was very
hungry at Arainai Nallur, the priest refused to give the cakes of rice to Him.  But in Keelur temple, the drummer gave his
quota of food to Him!  Again when He was hungry, not knowing the further route to T'mlaai, Muthukrishna Bhagavatar's
sister gave Him  all sweets and savouries prepared for the next day, Kirshna's birthday to Him in a packet!  She also gave
Him food.  Again when He needed some money for further train journey, Bhagavatar was ready to take his ear studs as pawn\
and gave Him money!  In the early days of Virupaksha Cave, He used to starve on many days but many days He had the
food brought by His fellow sadhus who went for Bhiksha.  In T'malai, Annamaliayar brought the good man Friday -
Pazhaniswami who did all service to Him.  He brought food from alms seeking, and shared with Sri Bhagavan.   There
are many many such instances. 

Arunachala Siva. 

ksksat27

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 02:58:20 PM »
That is very good info sir.

Can you elaborate on the tamil verse? And what translation Sri Swaminathan has written for this?

This comes a surprise, whatever job we are thinking which is earing money is nothing but our prarabdha.  It is very important verse.  No more blame on work and world. only sadhana.

Please elaborate your point of view also sir.

Subramanian.R

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 04:17:29 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Prof. K. Swaminathan has translated this verse in a slightly different way, though the meaning is the same.  He says:

What we experience now is only
The fruit of former actions. Knowing
This, one should not worry what
Happens to one.  Whether or not one likes it
One may not escape, one needs must eat,
The food one has prepared.

**

In Sri Bhagavan's life He always said that Destiny (Prarabdha) will only have its role and there is no Free Will for any
one.  The only Free Will is to make your mind still and take it to the Heart.  Once Devaraja Mudaliar asked Sri Bhagavan:
Bhagavan!  Is Destiny operative for only important things or for even small things, like I am taking this hand fan at
some point of time and then putting it back on the floor at some other point.

Sri Bhagavan replied: Yes, every thing is predestined. 

Mudaliar then asked perhaps at a later time:  What is the meaning of avan anRi Or aNuvum asaiyaathu.  Sri
Bhagavan said:  No.  The correct proverb is avan anRi asaiyaathu.  Even an  atom is not apart from Brahman.
He only moves and He only unmoves.

Then He said: Seththaaraip Pola thiRi... Move about like a dead man.   That is, without even an atom of free will of yours.

Sri Bhagavan on reaching T'malai and after embracing Arunachaleswara Linga, came out and threw away the sweet
packets given by Bhagavatar's sister because He knew that the food for the next occasion will be given by Arunachaleswara.
He waited for some time. One barber asked: Swami, should I tonsure your head?  Who decided that? It was Arunachaleswara.
He agreed and had the tonsure.  Then He thought: Should I take a bath?  Normally, after hair cut one takes bath.
Then He thought: Why should this body have a bath?  Then suddenly it drizzled heavily and His whole body including
the tonsured head had a bath! So this formality was also fulfilled by the Lord.

Arunachala Siva.           

ksksat27

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 04:38:55 PM »
sir

in that scenario can you kindly post the tamil original verse?

I remember Sri Swaminathan's version is the same as Sri Sadhu Om translation?

And Devaraj Mudhalair anectode is really nice, I have read it many times and enjoyed it.

Subramanian.R

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 05:11:13 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

The following is the original Tamizh verse:


ஊழே கூழாக உணர்ந்தோர் உளம் கலங்கிக்
கூழுக்கா என்றும் குலைவு உறார் - கூழதனை
வேண்டினும் வேண்டா வீடினும் எவர்க்கும் அவ்
ஊண்தான் ஒழியாது உணர்.

oozh means prarabdha.  koozh means that 'we eat'.  We eat our prarabdha effects.  One must necessarily eat.

Sri Bhagavan says that the only way to overcome oozh, prarabdha is attaining Self Knowledge.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2014, 11:42:31 AM »
In reply to a sadhu who asked if bhakti consisted in forgetting the body, etc. Sri Bhagavan said:

"What do you care for the body? Practise bhakti and don't worry about what happens to the body."

(Talk 149)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Anand

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2014, 04:41:26 PM »
dear friends,
The same thing was also informed by Bhagavan to Sivaprakasam Pillai.You may refer to the Power of the Presence part 1.
Of course before that Bhagavan had informed this in the first note that he even wrote ."The Ordainer controls the fate of souls in accordance with their past deeds. Whatever is destined not to happen will not happen, try how hard you may. Whatever is destined to happen will happen, do what you may to stop it. This is certain. The best course, therefore, is to remain silent.".
Hence there is no need to feel angush about what will happen,no need to worry whether we have said or done the right thing.
Everything is divinely ordained.Hence we should try to focus on practicing whatever sadhana works consistently for us and just "drop" the rest .
Regards,
Anand Sundaram.

Sundaram Anand

drsundaram

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2014, 07:40:56 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

The Verse says that Prarabdha will take care of even the food that is required.  One need not seek it with efforts.  Because
any efforts cannot overcome Prarabdha.  There are several examples in Sri Bhagavan's life itself.  When He was very
hungry at Arainai Nallur, the priest refused to give the cakes of rice to Him.  But in Keelur temple, the drummer gave his
quota of food to Him!  Again when He was hungry, not knowing the further route to T'mlaai, Muthukrishna Bhagavatar's
sister gave Him  all sweets and savouries prepared for the next day, Kirshna's birthday to Him in a packet!  She also gave
Him food.  Again when He needed some money for further train journey, Bhagavatar was ready to take his ear studs as pawn\
and gave Him money!  In the early days of Virupaksha Cave, He used to starve on many days but many days He had the
food brought by His fellow sadhus who went for Bhiksha.  In T'malai, Annamaliayar brought the good man Friday -
Pazhaniswami who did all service to Him.  He brought food from alms seeking, and shared with Sri Bhagavan.   There
are many many such instances. 

Arunachala Siva.
very nice and thank shri RS sir. but does it mean we need not even work for getting anything let it be even mundane since prarabhdha will handle our life. I think we should do work and a make  attempt to earn our livlihood, food and shelter. taking coverage  under prarabhdha factor/ effects one can not simply keep quite or be complacent ?  can you kindly detail on this......? swami chinmayananda says, "one must act having born"........... om namo bhagavathe sri ramanaya
 

Nagaraj

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2014, 08:16:52 PM »
Friends,

One will encounter two ends in this subject. Whether to keep silent, simply be or carry on the actions as the Lord says.

If one is to question the validity of keeping silent, simply remaining quiet without actions, Bhagavan would perhaps say, just try and see. if one is to question the validity of actions, Bhagavan would perhaps say, actions are inert, seek within. These are individual specific. Bhagavan never gave mass advice or path (refer Paramahamsa Yogananada)

One should also understand that even simply being without doing anything is not just idle indolence. But it is as Bhagavan says below:

Is the state of 'being still' a state involving effort or effortless?

It is not an effortless state of indolence. All mundane activities which are ordinarily called effort are performed with the aid of a portion of the mind and with frequent breaks. But the act of communion with the Self (atma vyavahara) or remaining still inwardly is intense activity which is performed with the entire mind and without break


To take the discernment beyond its limitations, there have been Yogis who have been able to give up even food and breath too and remain in exalted states, but they were not like stones.

On one hand we can see Ramana bahgavan who remained fixed in one place, where as Shankara Bhagavat pada was extensively on the move. There is no difference between them. If we look at Vyasa Valmiki, then it appeares they have not even slept and engaged always in activities for the kind of works that they have provided for posterity.

I feel we should cast off such analyses and focus the attention on the goal. Realise God or Self, that is the main objective. Whether one is to remain fixed in one place or whether one has to wait for food to come on its own or strive for little food for sustenance or whether one is to be on move, let us see it later.

So presently, the objective being to realise God or Self, strive towards it. as Bhagvan himself has come down with two paths in the ultimate sense. Which ever path one is inclined to, one has to inculcate moderation, facilitate oneself with "Spiritual luxuries" such as eating satvic food, enough sleep, moderation in other activities, limit the vyavaharam as little as necessary alone.

Either Surrender and keep quiet or sit and enquire things out, sort out all issues sprouting from within.

For instance, when such questions arise as to whether one has to put effort or not, one has to either enquire discern the truth completely or surrender completely not even wanting to know the answer.

There are two ways. One is looking into the source of ?I? and merging into that source. The other is feeling ?I am helpless by myself, God alone is all-powerful and except by throwing myself completely on him, there is no other means of safety for me.? By this method one gradually develops the conviction that God alone exists and that the ego does not count. Both methods lead to the same goal. Complete surrender is another name for jnana or liberation.

All these questions, if we see subtly, they arise out of body identification, what is to act and what is to be still? The self is beyond stillness and action. Most questions, if we see, we ask from the level of body identification.

Either way, if one has surrendered, one gives no room for any questions, and cut such questions by the spirit of Surrender to God and if one is to enquire, one would ignore the weight of a question and would proceed inquiring the source of the question, as to whom is this question springing to.

so we now know, questions are springing from body identification, there is not sompletion, Purna as yet, then what is the ideal response, what should we do? discern this truth as above and ignore the question and move on which ever path one is inclined to. Really if one has got this message, one need not know anything more, learn anything more or even try and understand anything new as well, as we know, there is nothing to understand, i need to surrender, it is God's will His will prevails, He is the doer, Not I But Thou. or Who am I, Who am I? Who am I?

--
« Last Edit: August 02, 2014, 08:31:07 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

silence

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2014, 11:59:13 PM »
I have a doubt on this.

Bhagawan says everything is predetermined. But wouldnt that mean even our self-inquiry - both the effort and success - are predetermined? Or is that alone based on free will?

Subramanian.R

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Re: An Interesting verse help required -- Guru Vachaka Kovai
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2014, 12:40:48 PM »
Dear silence,

Sri Bhagavan of course has said that everything is predetermined.   However, He has also said that only free will available to
to man is to put efforts and do self inquiry and succeed.

Arunachala Siva.