Author Topic: clarity is sought  (Read 1466 times)

drsundaram

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clarity is sought
« on: August 01, 2014, 08:46:47 AM »
sri nisargadatta maharaj says in his book,I AM That, 'there can be no consciousness without awareness but there can be awareness without consciousness', as in deep sleep and in next question says 'since it is awareness that makes consciousness possible there is awareness in every state of consciousness. therefore, the very consciousness of being conscious is already a movement in awareness' ..............i dont understand this sayings  . can our learned members share the meaning in simple words/ sentences to help me understand. .thank you...................om namo bhagavathe sri ramanaya

ksksat27

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Re: clarity is sought
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 11:11:13 AM »
Dear Dr Sundaram sir,

Very nice to see your reading I am that and having the doubts.

The holy book I am that edited by Maurice Frydman from Marathi was infact shown to Maharaj for his approval.  Though Maharaj found certain dialogues a bit confusing and ambiguous, he allowed that version to continue and put his grace & blessings on the english version.  So whatever we are reading now in I am That, they are , as approved by Sri Nisarghadatta maharaj.

Maharaj equates awareness to the nirguna brahman, sometimes he call it Absolute which does not even know that it exists.  Maharj says that this is the state which we were in ,8 days prior to our conception, 200 years prior to our conception etc.

Consciousness is the dynamic " I AM" feeling that is the "cosmic I am" which manifests itself when five elements combine to produce a life form.  For eg,  when I throw a bread piece,  the worms grow in it with fungal accumulation after 2 or 3 days due to favourable circumstances.  Now this already available Consciousness which is the " I AM " feeling manifests itself through the worm.

Same is the case with all of us -- we are the vehicles formed during conception due to sperm and the "cosmic I am" is simply manifesting in each one of us.

So Consciousness is the primordial feeling that I exist,  the innermost feeling "I AM" but not restricted to one particular body.  When a body takes birth, the feeling that it exists becomes possible only through this Consciousness.

It is the all pervading feeling like radio frequency available in the space. Whoever (means whatever elements) under favourable chemical combination of pancha bhutas become receptive, the life form starts and "I am" manifests.

If you google,  there are two books -- The Ultimate Medicine and Seeds of Consciousness available as Pdfs.  If you read some dialogues it will get clarified.


Before I go into further details , there are few aspects where one has to in-tune in frequency to Maharaj before one can assimilate his teachings.

First Maharaj belonged to navanath sampradaya who had Sri Dattatreya as Adhi Guru. Here every teacher from this sampradaya will speak in cryptic manner sometimes different from their fellow Gurus from same sampradaya.    We cannot even compare notes from what a Guru and his own disciple teaches (in some instances)

Second, as I understand, there is nothing we can consciously do now to prevent or allow Maharaj teachings to go into us.  It is all a play of consciousness and certain life forms have in their chemicals (which Maharaj calls) to listen to his teachings.  You cannot help it by any amount of tapas or non tapas.  Per Maharaj, when the sperm conception was made, the "cosmic I AM" took a blueprint of the state of affairs of the universe. Now that we are born with that chemical,  we are either forced to read his teachings or not.   

Third, Maharaj expected that when we read his teachings and dialogues we should not think much on what he says about.  We can ask questions, but Maharaj says that he always addressed the Consciousness and not the life form which is asking questions. 
It is better to immerse ourselves in "I am " feeling for few hours and then go back to read his teachings. This cycle one can repeat.


I am that contains many dialogues by many visitors.  Some may not apply to us. 

But if you read the other books I have quoted above in combination with I am that, you will get lot of benefits.

Sri Dattatreya Sadguru Charanam.
Sri Nisarghadatta Maharaj Charanam.

Nagaraj

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Re: clarity is sought
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 11:13:49 AM »
Consciousness is the mirror on which awareness shines.

Without the mirror the awareness cannot know itself.

Consider yourself present in a completely dark room, where there is no light absolutely, whatsoever. You do not need a light or somebody else to be present there along with you to know that 'you are', you know 'your are' inherently and you did not need to know that 'you are' such is awareness, which does not need a confirmation.

When you look at the mirror, you did not need to look at the mirror to know that 'you are' this is awareness. When you did look at your reflection in the mirror, it still did not make any change in the reality, you continue to exist, but your reflection is seen on the mirror, this is consciousness.

The nonexistence of mirror (Consciousness), does not eliminate you (awareness) You got to know your reflection only because 'you are' i.e., consciousness is known only because of awareness.

Consciousness cannot exist without awareness, whereas awareness has no non-existence. the Non existence of consciousness does not eliminate the awareness.

Consciousness is Shakti, Awareness is Shiva. See the essence of first verse of Soundarya Lahari - "Only when Shiva is united with Shakti does he have the power to create"

Awareness is only 'known' 'felt' or 'inferred' as "i am" only because of consciousness. But Your yourself do not need to know "you are".

Simply to know "you are", awareness sports itself as consciousness. Therefore, in this way, consciousness shines in awareness.

To know "I am" is merely to see yourself in the mirror of consciousness as "I am" you did not really require it.

This is the eternal divine Hide and Seek.

Simply to know what "is" what is "Not" came about. to know what is white, black came about.

hope this helps in some way!

--
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 11:27:52 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: clarity is sought
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 11:55:15 AM »
Some quotes for contemplation:

You are awareness. Awareness is another name for you. Since you are awareness there is no need to attain or cultivate it. All that you have to do is to give up being aware of other things, that is of the not-self. If one gives up being aware of them then pure awareness alone remains, and that is the Self.

The world does not exist without the body, the body never exists without the mind, the mind never exists without consciousness, and consciousness never exists without the Reality.

The Self is ever present. Each one wants to know the Self. What kind of help does one require to know oneself? People want to see the Self as something new. But it is eternal and remains the same all along. They desire to see it as a blazing light etc. How can it be so? It is not light, not darkness. It is only as it is. It cannot be defined. The best definition is `I am that I am'. The Srutis (scriptures) speak of the Self as being the size of one's thumb, the tip of the hair, an electric spark, vast, subtler than the subtlest, etc. These descriptions have no foundation in fact. It is only being, but different from the real and the unreal; it is knowledge, but different from knowledge and ignorance. How can it be defined at all? It is simply being.

Ask yourself to whom this ignorance has come and you will discover that
it never came to you and that you have always been Sat Chit Ananda.
One goes through all sorts of austerities to become what one already is.



Consciousness is the mirror on which you recognise "That Thou Art" or recognise as "I am That I am". Then you would know that you really did not require to know who you are, you already knew all along. nagaraj


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॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: clarity is sought
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 10:35:33 PM »
drsundaram,
Every teacher employs a certain terminology,yet the fundamentals are the same.We may for convenience refer to the outer consciousness-this implies a subject object relationship, typically characterized by stimuli from objects and reaction to the same,the center of which is called 'I',the subject.The attention involved in this sort of a consciousness is highly divided and fragmented,as are the fleeting  thoughts associated with it.It takes the form of attraction and repulsion towards the objects characterized by kama,krodha,lobha,moha,mada and mascharya(Lust,anger,Greed,Illusion,Pride and Envy).It is further characterized by kaleidoscopically shifting happiness,sorrow and Fear as a continuum of experience.
Humans are also endowed with the power to reflect-and it is not only possible to reflect on the experiences of the past and learn lessons,but it is possible to reflect on the experiences as they happen on the fly,so to say.For example,as we are getting angry,it is possible to watch this process.This creates a certain distance between the seat of anger and ourselves.In other words,the imaginary center or the 'I' who is the center of anger gets dislodged , blunting the intensity of anger.This 'watching consciousness' is called witness consciousness(awareness),and the center of experience gets shifted to this witness consciousness.Instead of reacting to the stimuli,now there is a response to the stimuli if warranted or it may choose to ignore the stimuli altogether.
This is what is meant by the statement:
Quote
"The very act of watching the content of consciousness,begins the movement towards freeing oneself from it".
The more we learn to live in this witness consciousness(It is called awareness here),the nearer it takes us towards freeing ourselves from the "I" and "mine".It is this witness consciousness that is present as a continuum in all the three states of waking,Dream and sleep.It is a state of perfect ease.Everything takes place in this.Please note that this witness consciousness is not brought about by an attempt to be the witness,but by sheer one hundred percent attention,from moment to moment.
Awareness is ever present but consciousness need not be ,as in Sleep,where the objects and the world is obliterated.

Namaskar.