Author Topic: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?  (Read 1619 times)

Om Hridayam

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Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« on: July 10, 2014, 06:17:27 AM »
This may seem a strange question to some, but an event happened to me today where I narrowly escaped a very bad situation.

I found myself immediately thinking "Thank you, beloved Ramana... thank you SO MUCH!!!" I suppose it's just normal feelings for a guru, but then
it occurred to me that if I was right there in front of Ramana he may well have laughed at me and said that he had nothing to do with the event.

I understand very well all about laws of karma and that what is meant to come to me will come, good or bad... and even then it doesn't really exist at the ultimate level. I understand all these things, but I was wondering from the point of view of Ramana lovers who have a deeper understanding of these things... Is this a normal response? Or do you think gratitude to Ramana for a worldly event would be discouraged by Ramana himself? It is a natural thing for me to send love and devotion to him, but when this happened today it got me to wondering if this is typically discouraged or encouraged within his tradition?

Thank you for any insight.

Ravi.N

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Re: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2014, 06:50:47 AM »
Om Hridayam,
Gratitude ,Loving remembrance of The Guru or God is indeed to be encouraged.They help the aspirant to grow in Faith and Devotion.The event(Bad situation) itself has passed but what has to endure is the Faith and Devotion,which are invaluable irrespective of what external events confront us.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

"In a certain village there lived a weaver. He was a very pious,soul. Everyone trusted him and loved him. He used to sell his goods in the market-place. When a customer asked him the price of a piece of cloth, the weaver would say: 'By the will of Rama the price of the yarn is one rupee and the labour four annas ; by the will of Rama the profit is two annas . The price of the cloth, by the will of Rama, is one rupee and six annas .' Such was the people's faith in the weaver that the customer would at once pay the price and take the cloth. The weaver was a real devotee of God. After finishing his supper in the evening, he would spend long hours' in the worship hall meditating on God and chanting His name and glories. Now, late one night the weaver couldn't get to sleep. He was sitting in the worship hall, smoking now and then, when a band of robbers happened to pass that way. They wanted a man to carry their goods and said to the weaver, 'Come with us.' So saying, they led him off by the hand. After committing a robbery in a house, they put a load of things on the weaver's head, commanding him to carry them. Suddenly the police arrived and the robbers ran away. But the weaver, with his load, was arrested. He was kept in the lock-up for the night. Next day he was brought before the magistrate for trial. The villagers learnt what had happened and came to court. They said to the magistrate, 'Your Honour, this man could never commit a robbery.' Thereupon the magistrate asked the weaver to make his statement.
'The weaver said: 'Your Honour, by the will of Rama I finished my meal at night. Then by the will of Rama I was sitting in the worship hall. It was quite late at night by the will of Rama. By the will of Rama I had been thinking of God and chanting His name and glories, when by the will of Rama a band of robbers passed that way. By the will of Rama they dragged me with them; by the will of Rama they committed a robbery in a house; and by the will of Rama they put a load on my head. Just then, by the will of Rama the police arrived, and by the will of Rama I was arrested. Then by the will of Rama the police kept me in the lock-up for the night, and this morning by the will of Rama I have been brought before Your Honour.' The magistrate realized that the weaver was a pious man and ordered his release. On his way home the weaver said to his friends, 'By the will of Rama I have been released.'

Namaskar.

Om Hridayam

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Re: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2014, 09:00:20 AM »
Thank you. Though is Ramakrishna and Ramana's view on this topic the same? I am interested in Ramana's tradition specifically.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2014, 12:12:18 AM by Om Hridayam »

ksksat27

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Re: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 11:15:40 AM »
Dear Om

I got your point.  Law of karma and prarabhda are not 100% rigid as you think.

Bhagavan's famous advise to his Mother emphasizes the surrender and Divine Will aspects not negative fatal determinism in the cruel hands of destiny.

Even though Bhagavn downplayed his role in all miracles, even in my personal life there were many situations where the seemingly written destiny were definitely reduced in effect to considerable extent.

It is defintiely the grace of Ramana and Arunachala at work that saved your situation.   Dont believe this law of karma as total rigid one. Such a belief, will not save us in critical situation.

Coming to Bhagavan's viewpoint, his preferred way is Silence.  If a devotee silently thanks to Him (assume this is before 1950) and acknowledges his intervention above karma he will simply respond through Heart positively. Only when we aproach Bhagavan and glorify his intervention , in Open environment he will discourage this thanks giving. Because Bhagavan was particular that his hermitage should not turn into a miracle factory.  Because Bhagavan shunned away crowd.

Heart in Heart Bhagavan knew the Self interfered through Him in many occasions of his devotees but he will never pubicly Acknowledge that.

Instead Bhagavan would prefer us to go back to Upadesa Undiyar or Ulladhu narpadhu and resume the main who am i enquiry. His approach is, enough of celerbations and 'feel safe' feeling , now that I have saved , go back to sadhana.  His part he will complete and only our part we have to do.

There are definitely some privileges to devotees of God that are unavailable to common mass who do not tune to God.

Not only with Sri Ramana devotees, but with many other sadhakas of other Gurus I have heard number of near save or miraculous incidents.

If we trust a Guru or God and follow the sadhana vigourously,  the greatest dangers in accidents and untimely crisis are greatly avoided.  I have seen this in many circumstanes -- at the last minute something intervenes and reduces the grave inauspicious crisis.   It is very mysterious but Ishwara replicates the devotion and nama japa we do to him and the Guru.

It is not due to rigid Law of karma that we escape.  Upadesa Undiyar downplays karma - karmam kadavulo undhi para, karmam jada madhaal undhi para.  Bhagavan calls karma as jadam or inert.  The Agency shakthi of Ishwara only activtes karmic effects.

A fortnight before there was a cobra snake in my bedroom.  Generally my mother will not come to bedroom, but that day she came because to put eye drops to me. We were in discussion about Arunachala and Bhagavan Raman relation and my mother was saying something about saravana bhava mantra.  All of a sudden she saw a snake which she mistook for a rope initially. it started moving just inches before my feet and we had a miraculous escape that day.

Trust me -- without the grace of Arunachala and Ramana many of our whereabouts would have been buried and grasses would have grown as they say in Tamil proverb.

God abudantly interferes in  and reduces our karma.

Regards,
Krishna
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 11:19:41 AM by ksksat27 »

Om Hridayam

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Re: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 07:15:52 AM »
Ah, thank you Krishna,
It is a difficult point for me to speak clearly about. It isn't that I think Karma is absolute and rigid with no change possible from a loving Guru... I am more interested in what My beloved Ramana would want from me in response to an event like that. Perhaps a better analogy would be this: Ramana was very clear on not bothering to chase siddhis, but I never got the impression he thought it was bad when they arose spontaneously on their own, he would advise to merely watch them but not waver from the Self. Like this I was wondering if Ramana would want my gratitude expressed like that... I have no knowledge of the cause behind my escape from a bad situation so would Ramana prefer I not assume it was him interfering? Would it be better to watch the event unfold without any remarks?

I think you have answered the question very well, I am trying to clarify my position. I am very drawn to the path of the Jnani, but have a Bhakti's disposition towards my guru... I have a heart that bubbles over with love for Ramana, this occurs naturally... but being isolated here in the US I have to ask questions sometimes that might seem odd. I want to follow Ramana the way he would want me to follow him.
Thanks again.

ksksat27

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Re: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 11:47:49 AM »
Dear Om Hrudayam

In my association with Ramana all these days,  the only thing that will impress him not only in this current scenario but eternally in all scenarios is slowly to start asking 'to whom this protection has come' the answer is to me,  now enquire who am i non verbally,  be with your I thought, rather than observing,  be the I thought , get immersed and be one with your own I thought.    That for sure will 100% satisfy our Master and he will shower abundant blessings on one and all when we do that.

Having said that I come to your questions.  You say your Heart bubbles in love towards the Guru.  That is the major sign of progress and jnana.  Many advaita saints like Papaji and Saradamma realized Self only through dualistic devotion full and full towards Krishna and her Guru respectively.  It is a paradox but jnana is rejected for those who do not consider the form Saguna Brahman as real.   

So the second option you have is only to thank your Guru again and again & do namaskaram.  Sri Seshdari Swamigal the contemporary saint in 19th century set a very good example.  When he met his own Guru Balaji Swamigal who appeared in Kanchipuram from Kashi,  what Seshadri did was,  he chanted the Dakshnamurthi slogam of Adhi Shankara and with every completion of a 4 line paragraphy, he prostrated full length to his Guru. 

You can also thank Guru Ramana likewise and add thankyou thankyou every time.

 This looks funny or madness or obsession for many onlookers but this practice will fast forward your progress towards realization.

One day we will do the same 'thankyou namaskaram' even when a bad thing falls on us. 

We cannot gain vairagya that time, so we have to start thanking only during good times.

I remember one of the 12 Alwars had a outstanding attitude of devotion, when a good thing comes to him he will praise Lord Vishnu for the good and auspicious thing as was possible only due to His grace. But when evil befalls , he will blame his bad karma and past sins for the same.  This is not just an attitude, this is the reality for devotee of God.  Our good is returned manifold with high degree while our own bad karma is returned with diminished minimal effect.  This is the act of Grace.

Arunachalam.

Om Hridayam

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Re: Gratitude to Ramana for worldy events?
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 05:15:44 AM »
Thanks again, Krishna!
Yes, devotion for Ramana comes easily to me.
I think it was Papa Ramdas who used to accept everything that came to him, good and bad,
by saying "Ram" meaning he accepted whatever came as coming from God.
I was very impressed with this and have tried to make it my own practice, too.
(I am not 100% successful, but I notice when I do I can remain in a clam state very easily.)