Author Topic: performing rituals to the departed  (Read 17835 times)

ksksat27

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #45 on: July 18, 2014, 07:30:15 PM »
Dear sir,

Actually we are typing simultaneously. I prepared an elaborate draft but I removed it honouring your sentiments. 
You are true, I have not sat with him long enough nor I read extensively on his works.

I undersand He calls Himself normal, but I have to use some prefix as a mark of respect for someone who has attained some high state from vyavaharika stage.

Regards,
Krishna

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #46 on: July 18, 2014, 07:37:12 PM »
ksksat(krishna),

Here is an excerpt from 'At the Feet of Bhagavan':

One Amavasya (new moon day) all the Ashram inmates were sitting down for breakfast in the dining room. I was standing and looking on. Bhagavan asked me to sit down for breakfast. I said that I had to perform my late father?s ceremony on that day and would eat nothing (Usually the ceremonies are done to enable the ancestors to go to heaven). Bhagavan retorted that my father was already in heaven and there was nothing more to be done for him. My taking breakfast would not hurt him in any way. I still hesitated, accustomed as I was to age-old tradition. Bhagavan got up, made me sit down and eat some rice cakes. From that day I gave up performing ceremonies for ancestors.

TKS wan neither a sannyasi nor an athivarnashrami.Do you have a single instance where Sri Bhagavan has advocated Shraddha ceremony?Please do let me know.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #47 on: July 18, 2014, 07:43:44 PM »
ksksat(Krishna),

Quote
You are true, I have not sat with him long enough nor I read extensively on his works.

I understand He calls Himself normal, but I have to use some prefix as a mark of respect for someone who has attained some high state from vyavaharika stage.

Are we competent to evaluate what another person has attained,even if we stay with him 24 hours?

This is what TGN says-"You see me sitting before you and I say that there is not a single worry that can touch me.I am no different than you.You can also do this."

Namaskar.


Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #48 on: July 18, 2014, 09:00:00 PM »
ksksat(krishna),
You may read this article in tamizh where TGN explains about imprints:
http://www.tgnfoundation.org/FAQ/20_Imprints.htm

He refers to the answer that Yudhishtira gives to the Yaksha in the 'Yaksha Prasna' (Mahabharata).

kiṁsvid ātmā manuṣyasya kiṁsvid daivakṛtaḥ sakhā|
upajīvanaṁ kiṁsvidasya kiṁsvidasya parāyaṇam||

yudhiṣṭiraḥ

putra ātmā manuṣyasya bhāryā daivakṛtā sakhā|
upajīvanaṁ tu parjanyo dānaṁ asya parāyaṇaṁ|

यक्षप्रश्नं महाभारतं वनपर्वम्
yakṣapraśnaṁ mahābhārataṁ vanaparvam


The Yaksha asked,-
'What is the soul of man
Who is that friend bestowed on man by the gods?
What is man's chief support?
And what also is his chief refuge?

Yudhishthira answered,--'
The son is a man's soul:
the wife is the friend bestowed on man by the gods;
the clouds are his chief support;
and gift is his chief refuge.

Your claim that what TGN says is something totally new is baseless.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #49 on: July 18, 2014, 09:18:34 PM »
ksksat(krishna)
Here is another question & answer session where TGN has talked about what happens after death:

LIFE AFTER DEATH
 
Question : I have understood from you that life is an agglomeration of basic energy-particles held within the physical body like air under pressure inside the cycle-tube. If so, will it not disperse straightaway after the death of the body?                 
(Kamakshi, West CIT Nagar)
 
Sage TGN :     The energy-particles constituting life are in constant self-rotation and they are held within the physical body by the vital fluid which alone has the strength and power to draw and carry them. When through damage, disease or ageing, the physical body is no longer able to retain the stock of vital fluid, the energy- particles exit from the body. They do have innately free velocity and should ordinarily escape into the universal field. But they are not able to do so because of the psychic load or burden of imprints accumulated by them through innumerable generations and still remaining uncleared. The energy- particles in this condition are still in agglomerated state and are called the 'disembodied soul' in collective noun-form.
 
          As long as the corpse is not cremated or buried, the disembodied soul will only be hovering over it because that is what it has been associated with for the duration of a lifetime. It would not be visible to the naked eye but the camera for aura-photography (known as Kirlian photography) can capture its image as an outline around the corpse. (A neurosurgeon in Chennai has such photographs in his album.)
 
          At this stage the offspring of the dead person can draw it by the method of self-invocation, in which case it would become part and parcel of their life-energy. Sons and daughters could each draw a portion of the parent's soul and the imprints carried by that segment would now have the physical medium to expend themselves. Should offspring (sons and daughters) alone do this? Not exclusively, but they are best-equipped for the purpose since they are from the same stock; they are chips of the old block.
 
          Life-partner, brothers and sisters, intimate friends and disciples of the deceased person could also draw a part of the life-energy but their position would, in the normal circumstance, be only secondary. The criterion is the closeness of the life-link and the fitness of the receptors of the survivors.
 
          Both in cremation or burial you would have observed that just before the pyre is lit or the refilling of the grave completed, there would be an announcement that whoever among the mourners wants to see 'the face' of the dead person should come forward without delay. This ritual is significant because when a life-linked person has a last look of the face of the dear-departed, he would be doing so with intense feeling and it is at such a moment that the transfer of life-energy is effected.
 
          You would have seen the recent news-item about the second daughter Ms Yuko Obuchi (26) of the late Prime Minister of Japan Keizo Obuchi announcing her sudden decision to contest the forthcoming election for her father's parliamentary seat. She had no intention whatsoever of entering politics but made up her mind- 'when I saw my father's face shortly after he died.' The new imprints she has received have arisen in her mind as the thought, 'I will take up those tasks which my father did not have the time to carry out.'
 
This would serve as an illustration of the philosophy I have been giving out.

You have misrepresented and questioned as to how his reference to the ritual of  'Looking at the Face of the departed' would transfer the imprint,totally ignoring that TGN has clearly mentioned that It is the 'intense feeling' that is necessary to draw the imprints-It happens automatically and one need not will it.
It is also clear that he does not diminish the importance of rituals.You have misrepresented this as well.

TGN is clearly  not spinning yarn read from some book but speaks from direct experience.

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 10:23:13 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #50 on: July 18, 2014, 09:41:57 PM »
ksksat(krishna),
If looking at a Face is of no value,then looking at Sri Bhagavan's Picture is also of no value.Is it true?
'Face' does reveal the personality to a large extent-In Tamizh,it is said that 'அகத்தின் அழகு முகத்தில் தெரியும்'-The Face is the mirror of the soul.
Hence the significance of the ritual mentioned in the previous post.The onus ofcourse rests with the sensitivity of the observer.If the observer is already 'dead' so to say,i.e if he is one who is merely marking his 'attendance'(with half a day casual leave) at the ritual,  he cannot draw any imprints.
So,that is that.
Namaskar.


Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #51 on: July 19, 2014, 08:33:47 AM »
ksksat(krishna),

You have written some longish posts which I find are only a mass of undigested material heard or read .I thought I will address a few core beliefs as everything else is just based on this:

Quote
Coming to your example,  the mentally ill child certainly carried his own karma.  and it was also the individual karma of the parents to bear and grow such a son facing embarrasment, expdentiure, worry and mockery in society.  So suitable child meets suitable parent and they are brought together circumstantially considering their own background karma only.


Quote
This is the effect of maya.  Even though it looks like close bondage ,  even though we call blood relation, it is only at the body level.  genes level.   beyond that one simply undergoes that portion of his karma as ordained as prarabhda. Quite individually.  One who has to suffer the death of son as Puthra Soham will be given a son who is destined to die young. Both meet each other but ultimately it is ony the individual prarabhdha that works out

The Basic Flaw in what you have understood is this-That there are an indefinite number of souls hovering somewhere and the moment and egg and sperm unite (or at some other opportune moment-you have not said this, but it is tantamount to it),the 'hovering diembodied soul' finds a 'most suitable fit' and  somehow is reborn as the 'son' or 'Daughter' or a 'Hijra'!

Let me ask you this-If as you say ,the 'individual soul' is awaiting a 'suitable fit' (in terms of karma match),what happens if it does not find a 'suitable fit'?What happens if the number of such 'Diembodied souls' far exceeds the number of people on the terra firma?

How many souls were there at the beginning of creation and how many are there now?(as per your theory)

How do you take the answer which Yudhistra gave the yakhsa -'putra ātmā manuṣyasya' ?


You may ponder over these questions and respond and then we may continue,if you have any doubts.If you are already sure that you 'know it all',then I will just leave it at that.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #52 on: July 19, 2014, 11:58:16 AM »
ksksat(Krishna),
You mentioned about Devas,etc.Here is an Excerpt from the talks of Kanchi Mahaswami:

In Brihadaranyaka Upanishad the entire divine community gets the advice: (V -2 - 1) *dAmyata*, meaning, 'Keep your senses under control'. The story goes as follows: Not only the Divines, but the Humans as well as the Asuras , all three species went to PrajApati, their Creator to get advice. They were told by BrahmA only a single letter 'da' and were also asked whether they had understood it.
Generally every one knows one's own weakness. So if somebody tells him a message in a disguised way and asks him to understand what he needed to understand, they will get the message in the way they think it was applicable to them. To understand something oneself this way has also a greater value. It will stick. One will not find fault with the fault-finder, for the curiosity to decipher the message will win!
That is how, in the story of Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, the single letter 'da' was conveyed by BrahmA to all the three species (devas, asuras and manushyas) at the same time but each one of them understood it to mean differently. They understood it to stand for the first letter of a message specially intended for them. The divines took it to stand for 'dAmyata', that is, 'control your senses'. The Creator agreed with their interpretation of the message.
The humans took it to mean 'datta' that is, 'Give: Do acts of charity; be charitable'. This also was approved by the Creator.
The asuras took it to mean 'dayadhvaM', that is, 'Be compassionate'. Again the Creator gave his approval of this interpretation.

The Acharya(Sri Sankara-ravi) in his Bhashya has commented on this that the three categories of people - devas, manushyas and asuras - are all of them in the human kingdom itself. People who are generally known to be good, but still do not have their senses in control are the 'divines'. People who have no charitable disposition and are greedy are the manushyas in the classification, because man's greatest weakness is greed and the consequent absence of a charitable disposition. People who have not even an iota of compassion in their hearts are classified as asuras. In other words, all the three messages of advice are for humanity.

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 12:03:53 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2014, 04:05:55 PM »
At what point of time did this separation of the individual soul (Jivatama) from the Absolute (Paramatma) occur, Sirs ? Never. Inhabiting the physical body which has a form (roopam) and was given name (naamam) for the purpose of worldly identification, the Jivan carved out for itself a miserly corner and imagined itself to be on its own. It is all a mischief of the mind that became hardened through crores of births; and now you are here steeped in misery and unending anxiety,stresses, strains and tensions and casting about for a way out which is nowhere in sight. The mind created the entanglement and the mess and it has to disentangle itself. Make bold to take responsibility for your present predicament, as the first step, or reconcile yourself to live out in anguish and fear. The choice is yours!
 
 Can you deny that the atmosphere enveloping the Earth is one and indivisible? Are not the oceans surrounding the land-masses of the world but one expanse of water although you have slipped into the habit of nomenclaturing them as Arctic, Atlantic and Pacific ! While so, can you ever be apart from your own material and effective Cause which is the Absolute, the static State and the Source and Origin of all the objects and appearances in the Universe ? Think along these lines and come to your own conclusion, which you should then proceed to implement.

An excerpt from TGN's talk.

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2014, 04:11:25 PM »
D: Do not one's actions affect one in after-births?
M: Are you born now? Why do you think of other births? The fact is, there is neither birth nor death. Let him who is born think of death and the palliative thereof!
D: Can you show us the dead?
M: Did you know your kinsmen before their birth that you should seek to know them after their death?

Excerpt from Maharshi's Gospel
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 04:16:46 PM by Ravi.N »

Subramanian.R

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2014, 04:36:03 PM »
Dear Ravi,

Nice quote from Maharshi's Gospel.  There is no birth, no death, no after birth, no heaven, no hell.  There is  only the state of "I am".
'asmitha' ;   'Naan IrukkiRen'.   For us to realize the state, it may take a long time.  Till one realizes that state one has to do
all nithya karmas and naamithika karmas.  There is no escape.


After performing his mother's death ceremony, Muruganar came to the Asramam, bare chested.  Sri Bhagavan found him
not even having a sacred thread!  He smiled and said:  'O athuvum pOchchaa!'

Ozhivil Odukkam says: muNdaikku Ethu pon aabranam? 

For a widow there is no gold ornaments to wear.
 
In a way, the Brahma Jnani is also a widow.  His family life is dead!

Once someone asked Sri Bhagavan: Are there Indra Loka, Chandra Loka?

Sri Bhagavan said: Yes.  There also some people would be sitting around a person and listening to him!
He further added: Oye!  These are all in your mind!  In deep sleep, where your mind is in suspended animation,
do you think of Indra Loka and Chandra Loka?   

In this connection, I am giving separately a verse from Devi Kaalottara Jnana Vichara Patalam.

Arunachala Siva.       
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 04:50:15 PM by Subramanian.R »

Subramanian.R

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #56 on: July 19, 2014, 04:58:16 PM »
Devi Kaalottaram Jnana Vichara Patalam, Verse 33:



நித்திரையாலும் நினைவாதியாலும் நிதம்
சித்தந்தான் மூட மிகச் சீரழியும் - சித்தமிதை
எத்தனத்தாலே உணர்த்தி ஏகாமல் தன்னிலையில்
வைத்திடுவாய் மேன் மேலும் வை.

Due to sleep and due to thoughts, the mind always loses its sharpness, its foolishness increases, and it goes to ruin.
Awakening this mind with effort, and without allowing it to wander, establish it in the state of Self.  Persevere in this
effort by fixing the mind again and again  in its natural state.

Tr. T.K. Jayaraman.

Arunachala Siva.       

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #57 on: July 19, 2014, 09:26:09 PM »
Subramanian/friends,
I have given the quotes from Maharshi's Gospel as well as from TGN to emphasize that One Truth is behind appearances-It is this one that has become many.As such the many are related and are not isolated islands.
This is how TGN puts it:
நம் ஒவ்வொருவருடைய உயிரும் பிரபஞ்சகளம் முழுவதும் படர்ந்து நீக்கமற நிறைந்துள்ள ஆற்றல்-துகள்களின் ஒரு சின்னஞ்சிறிய பகுதி என உணர்ந்தால் நாம் ஏற்படுத்திக்கொள்ளும் பதிவுகள் பிரபஞ்ச ஆகாசத்திலும் உடனடியாக விழுந்து நிற்கின்றன என்பது தெரியவரும்[/b].  எனவே தான் அறிவில் சிறந்தவர்களாலே ஒரு கருத்துச் சொல்லப்பட்டுள்ளது-'நீ செய்யும் எந்த ஒரு செயலும்  கூடப் பிரபஞ்சம் முழுமையுமே பாதிக்கச் செய்யும்'  என்பதாக, ('You cannot pluck a flower in your garden without disturbing the stars in the heaven')

This Truth is Readily perceived in the parents-Progeny trail and has to be adequately addressed.This is inextricably linked to the doing of so called 'Meritorious' deeds,'Charitable' deeds.This is different than just social service.Social service serves some mental ideal,an altruistic one whereas what is advocated by the Great ones is very different-it is to recognize the underlying unity of Life-and giving oneself in whatever way to alleviate the misery of 'others'-in 'helping' others we help ourselves-it helps to remove the shackles of 'I' and 'mine' and the mind purified thus ,is in a position to attain to the summum Bonum.
TGN explains it beautifully through an example:
In those days ,in the Government offices,the official papers used to be tied through a 'Tag' -The Tag is a 6 inch piece of thread with metal strip endings at both the ends.A Bunch of these tags used to be carelessly put together and over a period of time,with careless handling they used to become so tangled that it used to take quite an effort to separate them.The most practical way is to get hold of one of the outer tag end and lead it in a reverse fashion through the entangled mass until that particular tag comes out free.This would take the maximum effort.The same is to be done with the next tag as well and the process repeated.After the extrication of 5 or so of these tags ,the rest of the tags are loosened and relatively easier to extricate.A few more of these tags extracted in such a fashion,the rest of the tags simply come out separately.Now is the time to affix them in a card board so that they do not become entangled and can be used as and when needed.
Similiarly,the Karmic imprints have to be loosened and if the few major ones are loosened through selfless deeds,the rest of the imprints simply fall apart -revealing the ever free Nature of oneself.
This is what TGN advocates:
1.ஈகை+ ஒழுக்கம் =அறவாழ்க்கை
2.அறவாழ்க்கை+மெய்ப்பொருள் நாட்டம்=தவம்

He loves quoting this TirukkuraL:

ஈதல் இசைபட வாழ்தல் அதுவல்லது
ஊதியம் இல்லை உயிர்க்கு


Nothing expands the soul as giving and living without Friction(இசைபட வாழ்தல்) and as another Kural says:

வசையொழிய வாழ்வாரே வாழ்வார் இசையொழிய
வாழ்வாரே வாழா தவர்


ஒழுக்கம் விழுப்பந் தரலான் ஒழுக்கம்
உயிரினும் ஓம்பப் படும்
.

உற்றநோய் நோன்றல் உயிர்க்குறுகண் செய்யாமை
அற்றே தவத்திற் குரு
.

தவமும் தவமுடையார்க்கு ஆகும் அதனை
அஃதிலார் மேற்கொள் வது.


தவஞ் செய்வார் தங்கருமஞ் செய்வார்மற் றல்லார்
அவஞ்செய்வார் ஆசையுட் பட்டு


கூற்றம் குதித்தலும் கைகூடும் நோற்றலின்
ஆற்றல் தலைப்பட் டவர்க்கு.


Even untimely Death(கூற்றம்-akAla maraNam)can be overcome by one
who is fortified by Tapas.

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 06:40:36 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2014, 06:50:32 PM »
Friends,
Just what is the nature of the Rituals to the Departed-These Rituals have an outer form and at the same time have a inner pscholgical function.We have seen partly what TGN has said by way of the science of imprints that belongs to the later(Psycho-spiritual).

We may like to explore the nature of the Traditional Rituals and see whether there is any one to one correspondence with what TGN has said.Again,I wish to reiterate that TGN does not advocate abandoning the Traditional rituals,but goes behind to put things in proper perspective.
I now refer you to a few articles that may help understand things in proper perspective:

1.http://www.kamakoti.org/kamakoti/varaha/bookview.php?chapnum=5
(May my Tarpanas be please accepted on behalf of those in our Vamsam, the Sagotras or those who died without sons by way of sqeezing water from my Yajnopaveeth; this Mantra be recited by wearing the Holy Thread as a mala or long necklace and be left in the Tarpana Plate)

2.http://www.kamakoti.org/kamakoti/varaha/bookview.php?chapnum=6
(One another significant ritual relates to Pinda Daan; ?Pindas? made of Cooked rice or Wheat Flour along with black Sesame (Tila) seeds and water, each rounded in equal size placed on Kusa all facing South are worshipped by Dhup, Deep and Naivedyas.The Pindas represent the forefathers of three generations, viz. Father, Grand Father and Great Grand Father; in case of Shradda for mother, the two other gerations would be father?s mother and father?s grand mother)

3.http://www.hinduism.co.za/tarpana.htm
(You need not even believe in reincarnation, or even life after death, to perform Tarpana. Your parents and grandparents are still alive inside you, in your genes. You are simply projecting a part of your personality, contacting it, and requesting it to be pleased with you and to relinquish any inappropriate influence it may have over you. This visualization releases you from any unhealthy psychological habits you may have as a result of the influence of these previous beings who also shared your genes, and of the images you have of those beings.)

4.http://www.hinduism.co.za/rituals.htm#The ritual of sraddha
(There are two classes of Pitris, viz., the Celestial Pitris who are the lords of the Pitri Loka, and the Human Pitris who go there after death. Brahma is the paternal grandfather of all. Kasyapa and the other Prajapatis are also Pitris, as they are the original progenitors. Pitri Loka or the Abode of the Pitris is also called by the name Bhuvar Loka.
The word Pitris primarily means the immediate ancestors, viz., father, mother, etc. Sraddha proper is performed for three generations of Pitris, or to all Pitris. Three cakes are offered to the father, the grandfather and the great grandfather. Two Brahmins are fed first. Seven generations can mutually influence one another by the giving and receiving of food-Swami Sivananda)

5.[url]http://www.hinduism.co.za/funerals.htm[/url
(When a son dies and the father is alive, then the father cannot apply or light the funeral pyre, and there is no Sapindi ceremony. Father does not do Vidhi (ceremony) for son.

The living son performs the ten day ceremony for the soul and not for the body. Living son performs the ceremony to liberate from father?s debt. If there are many sons, any one son can perform the ten-day ceremony. Sons staying apart can each perform the ceremony. Final rites for the mother and for the father, done according to scriptures, yield fruits that are equal to making Parikrama or circumambulation of earth.)

It is now time to revert back to the original post that triggered it all:

Quote
The VEDAS, DASOPANISHADS, BRAHMA SUTRAS  and BHAGAVAD GITA do not agree with or accept the above rituals as helpful for the departed soul. It is only in the PURANAS  you can find stories of  such rituals being performed and  departed souls liberated. Due to high level of interpolation the Puranas  are not considered as authorities on spiritual matters. I strongly feel and believe that these  meaningless rituals & means  nothing.  Did these rituals became a source of exploitation in the hands of some vested  whose words mattered much in religious matters from times immemorial


I have given that one reference from Taittriya upanishad-"Deva pitr karyAbhyAm na pramaditavyam".

If we actually go through the ritualistic Chants,they do not have anything of the nature of Veda Mantras(with my limited knowledge)and are more of the nature of a Prayoga(a set of  Practices put together).

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 07:33:07 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: performing rituals to the departed
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2014, 07:20:16 PM »
Friends,
Here is a Q&A session excerpt from TGN:

Question:I am 70 and ailing.I am still performing annual ceremony for my parents.My wife and I are not able to withstand the strain of fasting till late in the afternoon.Will you kindly say whether the ceremony has to be done all through my life?(Natesan,Tambaram)

Answer:"SrAddham" comes from the  word "sraddha" which means "care".This care for one's parents is best displayed while they are alive.The funeral ceremonies are directed towards absorption of the disembodied souls by the offspring(sons and daughters)who have come from the same stock of life-energy.If conscious absorption is done at that point,the indication would be sudden surge of peace in the minds of sons and daughters(I have personally verified this -Ravi) and a cessation of the pangs of grief.Where this science of absorption has not been learnt,it has to be assumed that the souls are still earth-bound and hence the annual exercises in the form of rituals.
In view of your age and ailments,you could try out the following method:On the day of anniversary,arrange for lunch to be provided to an orphanage in the vicinity.The Food should be of good quality and you and your wife should partake it in the company of the children.At the close,request the children to chant "May the soul of Sri..../smt....rest in Peace".If your burden feels lightened at this juncture,you may dispense with Traditional ceremonies.Also,if you are aware of any unfulfilled desires of your parents(Noble ,innocuous ones-Ravi),do what you can to carry them out.

I have heard innumerable  times during his talks where TGN has expressed the wish that the Religious instituitions should arrange for carrying out the Funeral ceremonies for unclaimed bodies of victims killed in accidents like Fire,Flood ,Building collapse,etc.
Yet,his emphasis is always on the psycho-spiritual aspects-everything has to be subservient to the spiritual dimension-Karmic imprints have to be cleared so that the Innate freedom of the Self be realized.Nothing is achieved if this is not done.
It is pretty clear that what TGN says tallies with Traditional Practice as well.
Namaskar.