Author Topic: The Vedas  (Read 17304 times)

ksksat27

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2014, 11:12:44 AM »
Maharishee Ramana gave lot of importance to morning and evening vedic chanting. As Sri Graham told, vedas means it is normally linked with karma kanda portion but it is inseparable and spread across covering jnana and kamya phala in very scattered manner.

For eg, even in Sri Rudram , Chamakam the same song contains both jnana and material prayers.

Vedic chants are powerful aid to self enquiry. I daily play vedas at morning 8 AM in CD to create a Sri Ramasramam environment.

During vedic chanting, Bhagavan's Photos carry lot amount of inexpressible bliss.

One request to Ravi sir --  sometime ago you were asking in a thread whether I am reading all contents of your post before replying.

My kind feedback is, please summarize the viewpoint in your own words as a preface and then include the exact book extracts of the great sages.

Your words wil be simpler, quicker to read and useful for further discussions.

But the moment you quote some great saint as an answer,  I am not able to say anything against and the topic becomes deserted.  And the doubts remain with me unclarified.

So please summarize your viewpoint and then include the golden quotes sir.

Krishna

atmavichar100

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2014, 12:48:37 PM »
Quote
Vedic chants are powerful aid to self enquiry. I daily play vedas at morning 8 AM in CD to create a Sri Ramasramam environment.

That is the best way to develop a stasangha at home and be in sync with the activities at SriRamanashramam even though you may be hundreds of miles away from Thiruvanamalai . Either one can follow the Morning / Evening Veda Parayana or the Evening Tamil Parayana . I try to follow to  my best the Monday , Sat Tamil Parayana at home at the same time as it is being chanted at Sri Ramana Ashramam .

This is the current daily activity schedule .If someone can follow one of these schedules daily at 8 a.m, 5 p.m /6.30 p.m then it would be great . More ideal is if someone can follow all the 3 schedules at the same time in heir homes .

Daily Schedule

6:45am: Milk Offering/breakfast         

8am:      Vedaparayana


10am:    Morning Puja

11:30:    Lunch

4pm:      Tea

4pm:      Group Reading (Tamil)

4:30:     Group Reading (English)

5pm:     Vedaparayana


6:15:      Evening Puja

6:30:     Tamil Parayana


7:30:     Evening Meal

9pm:    Samadhi Hall Closes
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 12:52:40 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2014, 01:10:42 PM »
The following are the Morning / Evening Vedic and Sanskrit Chants as followed in Ramana Ashram and I believe Bhagwan did give an outline for the same and others added some later .  I once asked David Godman about this but he could not give me the proper answer to its background .
If there is any changes in the list , I will make it .

Ramana Ashram Morning Vedic and Sanskrit Chants at 8 a.m

1) Sri Ramna Chatvarimshat
2) Sri Arunachla Pancharatnam
3) Sri Taittriya Upanishad ( Sikisha /Anand /Bhrigu Valli )
4) Sri Suktam
5)Maha Narayana Upanishad ( some portions )

Ramana Ashram Evening Vedic & Sanskrit Chants at 5 p.m

1)Dakshinamurti Stotram
2) Sri Rudram
3) Chamakam
4) Purusha Suktam , Narayana Suktam,Durga Suktam
5) Mantra Pushpam .
 6)Upadesa Saram
7) Nakarmana

I have updated the list to make some changes after seeing the final version from the book "The Veda Parayana At Sri RamanaAshram - An English  Translation  .

According to this book :
1) In Sri Bhgawan's lifetime , Vedic Chanting/Veda Parayana  was held twice a day morning and evening , lasting about 40 mts on each occasion , and this is still continued .
2) This with the Puja which follows it is  the only ritual which was or is generally attended at the Ashram .
3) It was an hour of tremendous silence when he sat immobile as though carved in rock . He never allowed anything to interrupt it .
4) When asked whether people should learn the meaning ,so as to follow it , he said no : It was sufficient that the chanting served as a support for meditation .
5) Despite this , it is also true , however , that the portions used for chanting were carefully chosen and approved by Sri Bhgawan Himself .
6) Nothing has been deleted from them since Sri Bhagwan's  lifetime and only one item added .That is Sri Dakshinamurti Stotra which , mainly on the request of the late Major Chadwick ( Sadhu Arunachala ) is now used as the opening hymn before the evening chant .
7) Technically in the past even listening to the Chanting of Vedas is supposed to made available only to Brahmins , but this prohibition was abrogated by Sri Bhagwan .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

ksksat27

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2014, 02:04:27 PM »
The following are the Morning / Evening Vedic and Sanskrit Chants as followed in Ramana Ashram and I believe Bhagwan did give an outline for the same and others added some later .  I once asked David Godman about this but he could not give me the proper answer to its background .
If there is any changes in the list , I will make it .

Ramana Ashram Morning Vedic and Sanskrit Chants at 8 a.m

1) Sri Ramna Chatvarimshat
2) Sri Arunachla Pancharatnam
3) Sri Taittriya Upanishad ( Sikisha /Anand /Bhrigu Valli )
4) Sri Suktam
5)Maha Narayana Upanishad ( some portions )

Ramana Ashram Evening Vedic & Sanskrit Chants at 5 p.m

1)Dakshinamurti Stotram
2) Sri Rudram
3) Chamakam
4) Purusha Suktam , Narayana Suktam,Durga Suktam
5) Mantra Pushpam .
 6)Upadesa Saram
7) Nakarmana

I have updated the list to make some changes after seeing the final version from the book "The Veda Parayana At Sri RamanaAshram - An English  Translation  .

According to this book :
1) In Sri Bhgawan's lifetime , Vedic Chanting/Veda Parayana  was held twice a day morning and evening , lasting about 40 mts on each occasion , and this is still continued .
2) This with the Puja which follows it is  the only ritual which was or is generally attended at the Ashram .
3) It was an hour of tremendous silence when he sat immobile as though carved in rock . He never allowed anything to interrupt it .
4) When asked whether people should learn the meaning ,so as to follow it , he said no : It was sufficient that the chanting served as a support for meditation .
5) Despite this , it is also true , however , that the portions used for chanting were carefully chosen and approved by Sri Bhgawan Himself .
6) Nothing has been deleted from them since Sri Bhagwan's  lifetime and only one item added .That is Sri Dakshinamurti Stotra which , mainly on the request of the late Major Chadwick ( Sadhu Arunachala ) is now used as the opening hymn before the evening chant .
7) Technically in the past even listening to the Chanting of Vedas is supposed to made available only to Brahmins , but this prohibition was abrogated by Sri Bhagwan .

Beautiful sir. My request is please copy your last two posts and make a separate thread.

It is easy to refer and follow. You can add in some relevant thread.

I envy Subramaniam sir and other full time devotees here. 

But proportionate to our desires only, samsara will be there. I have more desires and hence more work in material life I believe.


atmavichar100

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2014, 02:22:45 PM »
Dear Kskat

I have made a separate thread for the same as per your request .Now it is more easy for others to know what exactly is being chanted in the Morning / Evening Veda Parayana at Sri Ramana Ashram .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2014, 06:21:01 AM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Veda-bhasya[/b]continued....

According to the Nirukta (one of the six Angas of the Vedas) a Brahmin comes under a curse by chanting the Vedas without knowing their meaning.
A number of great men have written commentaries on the Vedas so as to inspire faith in the sacraments. Sri Madhvacarya has written a commentary for the first 40 suktas of the first kanda of the Rg Veda.
Skandasvamin has also written a bhasya on the Rg Veda. To BhattaBhaskara we owe a commentary on the Krishna-Yajur Veda, and to Mahidhara on that of the Sukla-Yajur Veda. In recent times, Dayananda Saraswati and Aravinda Ghose(Sri Aurobindo-Ravi) as well as his disciple Kapali Sastri have written expository treatises on the Vedas. Though there are so many commentaries, the one by Sri Sayanacarya is particularly famous: many scholars, including Western Indologists, treat it as authoritative.
There are five Vedas if you reckon the Yajur Veda to be two with its Sukla and Krsna divisions. Sayana has written commentaries on all the five.
Expository treatises on the Vedas had been written before him but he was the first to write a bhasya for all the Vedas. Though Sayanacarya's commentary had been studied for centuries, a stage came recently when we feared that it would cease to hold any interest for students. Those who learned to chant the Vedas, without
knowing their meaning, became priests while those who studied poetry and other subjects did not learn even to chant the mantras. So much so interest in the study of the Vedabhasya declined. It was at this time that the Sastyabdapurti Trust was formed with a view to maintain the study of the Veda-bhasya.
When the Trust started to conduct examinations, the Veda-bhasya meant no more than the printed text of the Vedic commentary kept in bookshops. The publishers were then worried that not many copies would be sold. After the creation of the Trust we gave students not only scholarships but also copies of the Veda-bhasya. Our worry now was whether there would be enough copies in stock for fresh students. It is with the grace of Parasakti, the Supreme Goddess that we have succeeded in reviving the study of the Veda-bhasya. And so long as we have her grace there will be students ready to learn the subject and there will also be enough copies of the text.
On the eve of a wedding, upanayana or simanta ceremony, we must consult a Vedic scholar who knows the Veda-bhasya to explain the meaning of the mantras employed in these rituals. On the day of the function itself the time at our disposal would be short. If we grasp the meaning and significance of the mantras beforehand we will have a more rewarding involvement in the function.

continued....
« Last Edit: June 24, 2014, 10:30:17 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2014, 07:27:37 AM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Veda-bhasya continued....

If we know the meaning of the mantras chanted at a function, we stand to gain more benefits from it. We go through rites because we do not have the courage to give them up. Similarly, we must come to realise that it is wrong to perform a rite without knowing the meaning of the mantras chanted; we must therefore take the help of a pandita in this matter. As mentioned before, going through works with a knowledge of the significance and meaning of the mantras is more beneficial. We must have faith in the Upanishadic saying" Yadeva vidyaya karoti tadeva viryavattaram bhavati".

At an upanayana, it is the brahmacarin (as the karta) who chants the mantras; similarly it is the groom alone who intones them at a marriage. What do you expect of all invitees to do at such functions? Do they come only for the luncheon or dinner, or to keep chatting, to see the dance recital or to listens to the nagasvaram music? Is their part only to make themselves happy in this manner? No. The Vedic mantras deserve our highest respect. When they are being intoned we must honour them by
listening to them intently. The mantras create well- being for all. If the invitees and others at a function listen to them and are able to follow their meaning they will earn merit even though they do not have the role of the karta in it.
Take the case of the asvamedha (horse sacrifice). Only a king who has subdued all other rulers, that is a maharaja or a sarvabhauma, is qualified to perform it. So only a monarch during a particular period in history, a monarch whose sway extends all over the world, is entitled to conduct this sacrifice. The asvamedha brings more benefits than any other rite.Now the question arises: In any generation only one individual is perhaps capable of earning so much merit (by performing the horse sacrifice). Why are the Vedas so partial that they have made it impossible for the vast majority of people (who cannot perform the sacrifice themselves) to earn such merit? Is it true that only a ruler, who has immense strength and enormous resources at his command, is capable of benefiting from such a sacrifice? If people of good conduct and character are denied the same merit as a powerful emperor can earn, does it not amount to deceiving them? How can the Vedas be so partial to one man?
In truth no partiality can be ascribed to the Vedas. A Vedic rite is admittedly beneficial to the man who performs it. But, at the same time, it does good to all the world. If I light a lamp in the darkness here does it not bring light to all the people present and not to me alone? It may be that the performer of a Vedic work receives more special
benefits than others. But the sastras shows the way by which these others may also reap the same fruits as the karta- in fact the Vedas themselves mention it. If ordinary people cannot conduct a horse sacrifice they may get to know how it is performed. They may pay attention to the hymns chanted during the sacrifice and also try to follow
their meaning. In this way they derive the full benefits of the sacrifice performed by an imperial ruler. This fact is referred to in the section dealing with horse sacrifices in the Vedas.
In the same way, whether it is a marriage or a funeral, the merit will be earned in full if we closely follow the rite and listen to the mantras with due knowledge of their meaning.

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #67 on: June 25, 2014, 07:16:32 PM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Sadanga: The Six Limbs of the Vedas

The six Angas are Siksa (Phonetics); Vyakarana (grammar); Nirukta (lexicon, etymology); Kalpa (manual of rituals); Chandas (prosody); Jyotisa (astronomy-astrology). A Brahmin must be acquainted with all. That he must be well- versed in the Vedas goes without saying. He must first learn to chant them and proficiency in the six Angas will later help him to gain insights into their meaning.

Siksa is the nose of the vedapurusa, Vyakarana his mouth, Kalpa his hand, Nirukta his ear, Chandas his foot and Jyotisa his eye. The reason for each sastra being identified with a part of the body will become clear as we deal with the Angas individually.

Siksa comes first among the six limbs of the Vedas, the nose of the Vedapurusa. The function of the nose here is not to be taken only as that of perceiving smells. It has also the function of breathing; in fact it is one of the organs of breathing. Siksa serves as the life-breath of the Vedic mantras.

Where is the life of a Vedic mantra centred? Each syllable of a hymn is to be enunciated strictly according to its measure. Clarity of pronunciation is what is intended. Apart from this, each syllable is raised, lowered or pronounced evenly -- udatta, anudatta, savarita. If attention is paid to these points, there will be tonal purity. A mantra yields the desired fruit if each syllable is vocalised with clarity and tonal accuracy. The phonetic and tonal exactitude of a mantra is even more important that its meaning. In other words, even though the meaning is not understood, if the tonal form takes shape correctly, the mantra will bring the intended benefit. So the life-breath of the Vedas, which are a collection of mantras, is their sound.

There is a mantra to cure scorpion sting. Its meaning is not revealed. Its potency is in its sound. Certain sounds have certain powers associated with them. It is sometimes asked: Why should the sraddha mantras be in Sanskrit? May they not be in English or Tamil? Those who raise these questions do not realise that it is the sound that matters here, not the language as such. If the teeth of a sorcerer were knocked off, his witchcraft [magic] would have no effect. Why? Because the man would
not be able to recite this spell properly.

Enunciation of the mantras is most important to the Vedas. What do we do about it? Siksa is the science that deals with the character of Vedic syllables it determines their true nature. The science of the sounds of human speech is called phonetics and it is more important to the Vedic language than to any other tongue. The reason is that even if there is a slight change in how you vocalise a syllable the efficacy of the mantra will be affected.

It is because of the importance of Vedic phonetics that Siksa has been placed first among the six Angas. It is dealt with in the Taittiriya Upanishad. Its "Siksavalli" begins like this: "Let us now explain the Siksa sastra ". The name of the sastra occurs here as well as in many other Vedic texts with a long "e" ("Siksa"). Sankara observes in his commentary: "Dairghyam Chandasam": it means that the usually short "i" occurs as long [in the Vedas]. (Such examples are to be found in Tamil poetry also. ) I told you that the Vedic language is not called Sanskrit but Chandas. "Chandasam", from "chandas", denotes here a Vedic usage.

continued...
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 06:34:54 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2014, 06:49:48 AM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Sadanga: The Six Limbs of the Vedas continued...

We may gauge the importance of articulate speech from the fact that the Lord has bestowed this faculty only on man. Such a wonderful gift of Isvara must not be squandered or abused in idle gossip or useless talk. We must use it to grasp the divine powers and endeavour to create the well-being of mankind thereby. And we must also try to raise our own self with it. All these lofty purposes can be served with the Vedic mantras that the sages have gathered from space for our benefit.
If you recognise this fact you will realise why there should be a sastra called Siksa specially for the purpose of guiding us in the enunciation of Vedic mantras. This science as developed by our forefathers arouses the wonder of linguistic scientists even today. It teaches us how the syllables are to be produced accurately and describes in the minutest detail how the passage of the breath coming from the pit of the stomach is to be controlled. Further, it tells us on which parts of the body the breath must
impinge and how it must be discharged from the mouth
.
In a sense, air going into our body in different ways is a manifestation of the yogic science: it is because of the vibrations caused in our nadis as a result of the passage of our breath that our emotions and powers take shape. There is a saying, "What is in the macrocosm is present in the microcosm. " As mentioned before, the vibrations within us produce vibrations outside also and these are the cause of worldly activities. That is why those who have mastered the mantras have the same powers as
those who have achieved yogic perfection controlling their breath. The one is mantrayoga, the other is Rajayoga
.

Siksa deals with "uccarna", "svara", "matra", "bala", "sama" and "santana". The sound of each mantra is determined with the utmost accuracy. How different sounds have their source in different parts of the body and how they are vocalised, all such details which are of scientific and practical importance are dealt with in this Anga. If it says, "Join your lips in this way and such and such a sound will be produced as you speak", you may verify it for yourself in practice and find it to be true.

The Vedic syllables must be pronounced with clarity. The character of their sound should not be distorted a bit. But no force must be used in vocalising the syllables. There should be no damage done - no erosion of the sound - and no violence should be suggested in the pronunciation.

How does a tigress carry its cubs? Tigresses and cats carry their young ones by holding them firmly with their teeth, yet in doing so they do not cause any hurt to the little ones. The Vedic hymns must be chanted in the same way, the syllables enunciated gently and yet distinctly. Panini, has written the most important work on grammar, a subject which comes next (after Siksa) among the Vedangas.
Apart from him many others written on Siksa. There are thirty works in this category. Panini's and Yajnavalkya's are particularly important. Each Veda has attached to it a "Pratisakhya" which examines Vedic sounds. There are also ancient commentaries on them and these too are included in Siksa.

continued...
« Last Edit: June 27, 2014, 07:26:11 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #69 on: June 27, 2014, 07:48:14 AM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Sadanga: The Six Limbs of the Vedas continued...

Vyakarana or grammar is the "mukha" of the Vedapurusa, his mouth.There are a number of works on Sanskrit grammar. The most widely used and important is the one by the great sage Panini. There is a gloss - a vartika- on his "Vyakarna-sutra" by Vararuci. Patanjali has written a bhasya or commentary on Panini's sutras. These three are the chief works on Sanskrit grammar.
There is a difference between grammar and other sastras. In the case of other subjects the original sutras constituting them are esteemed more than their bhasyas. But, in the case of grammar, or Vyakarana, the Vartika is more valued than the sutras and still more valued is the bhasya.
According to one reckoning, there are six sastras. Vyakarana is one of them. Four of the sastras are particularly important: apart from Vyakarana, Tarka (logic), Mimamsa and Vedanta. Vyakarna is also one of the vedic sadanga (six limbs of the vedas). "Sucant sutram ", so it is said. (The sutra is just an indication of something, a truth or a principle.) Every sastra has a bhasya and each such bhasya is known by a particular name. The vyakarana bhasya (of Patanjali) alone is called "Mahabhasya", "the great commentary ".

Siksa, Vyakarna and the subjects I have yet to deal with -Chandas and Nirukta-are Vedangas-(limbs of the vedas) connected with language. After I said that I would deal with matters basic to our religion, I have been speaking about linguistic studies and grammar. Next I am going to deal with prosody. By works on religion we ordinarily mean those [directly] relating to God, worship, devotion, jnana, dharma and so on. Would not the right thing for me then be to speak about such works? When we dealt with the vedas a number of matters cropped up, matters regarded as germane to religion. Religion will find a prominent place in the subjects that I have yet to speak about, Kalpa, Mimamsa, the Puranas and Dharmasastra., But in between has arisen the science of language that has apparently no connection with religion.
In the Vedic view everything is connected with the Lord. There is no question of dividing subjects into "religious" and "non-religious". Even the science of medicine, Ayurveda, which pertains to physical well being, is ultimately meant for Atmic uplift- or for that matter, military science (Dhanurveda). That is why they were made part of traditional lore. So too political economy which is also an Atma-sastra. Why are works belonging to these fields held in great esteem? All subjects, all works, that teach a man to bring order, refinement and purity in every aspect of his life and help him thus to take the path to liberation are regarded as religious in character.
Sound is the highest of the perceived forms of the Paramatman and language is obviously connected with it. It is the concern of Siksa and Vyakarana to refine and clarify it and make it a means for the well-being of our Self.
Grammar is associated with Sabdabrahman. Worship of the Nadabrahman which is the goal of music is a branch of this. If sounds are well discerned and employed in speech they will serve not only the purpose of communication but also of cleansing us inwardly. The science of language is helpful here.

continued...

ksksat27

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #70 on: July 02, 2014, 12:23:05 PM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Sadanga: The Six Limbs of the Vedas continued...

Vyakarana or grammar is the "mukha" of the Vedapurusa, his mouth.There are a number of works on Sanskrit grammar. The most widely used and important is the one by the great sage Panini. There is a gloss - a vartika- on his "Vyakarna-sutra" by Vararuci. Patanjali has written a bhasya or commentary on Panini's sutras. These three are the chief works on Sanskrit grammar.
There is a difference between grammar and other sastras. In the case of other subjects the original sutras constituting them are esteemed more than their bhasyas. But, in the case of grammar, or Vyakarana, the Vartika is more valued than the sutras and still more valued is the bhasya.
According to one reckoning, there are six sastras. Vyakarana is one of them. Four of the sastras are particularly important: apart from Vyakarana, Tarka (logic), Mimamsa and Vedanta. Vyakarna is also one of the vedic sadanga (six limbs of the vedas). "Sucant sutram ", so it is said. (The sutra is just an indication of something, a truth or a principle.) Every sastra has a bhasya and each such bhasya is known by a particular name. The vyakarana bhasya (of Patanjali) alone is called "Mahabhasya", "the great commentary ".

Siksa, Vyakarna and the subjects I have yet to deal with -Chandas and Nirukta-are Vedangas-(limbs of the vedas) connected with language. After I said that I would deal with matters basic to our religion, I have been speaking about linguistic studies and grammar. Next I am going to deal with prosody. By works on religion we ordinarily mean those [directly] relating to God, worship, devotion, jnana, dharma and so on. Would not the right thing for me then be to speak about such works? When we dealt with the vedas a number of matters cropped up, matters regarded as germane to religion. Religion will find a prominent place in the subjects that I have yet to speak about, Kalpa, Mimamsa, the Puranas and Dharmasastra., But in between has arisen the science of language that has apparently no connection with religion.
In the Vedic view everything is connected with the Lord. There is no question of dividing subjects into "religious" and "non-religious". Even the science of medicine, Ayurveda, which pertains to physical well being, is ultimately meant for Atmic uplift- or for that matter, military science (Dhanurveda). That is why they were made part of traditional lore. So too political economy which is also an Atma-sastra. Why are works belonging to these fields held in great esteem? All subjects, all works, that teach a man to bring order, refinement and purity in every aspect of his life and help him thus to take the path to liberation are regarded as religious in character.
Sound is the highest of the perceived forms of the Paramatman and language is obviously connected with it. It is the concern of Siksa and Vyakarana to refine and clarify it and make it a means for the well-being of our Self.
Grammar is associated with Sabdabrahman. Worship of the Nadabrahman which is the goal of music is a branch of this. If sounds are well discerned and employed in speech they will serve not only the purpose of communication but also of cleansing us inwardly. The science of language is helpful here.

continued...

Dear Ravi sir

As I requested, kindly summarize your views on Vedas that will serve as a lucid summary of your viewpoints.  Nowadays (long time) I am only seeing your exact extracts from books on any topic.  Earlier you used to summarize your view points that definitely serve as a crisp easy to refer valuable perception.

Also i am still waiting rely for my PM , please reply in private message.

Krishna

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #71 on: July 02, 2014, 02:48:55 PM »
ksksat(Krishna),
I responded to your personal mail twice,looks like you are not accessing your yahoo id.Please let me know if you have any other mail id that i can respond to.I will again mail it.

Coming to your request-that I must summarize my thoughts on Vedas,I am not sure what you need.One fundamental thing that I would point out with regard to the Vedas is the Nature of sound and the very language of the Vedas.In the Vedas,the sound comes first and then the meaning follows.In everyday language,the Meaning comes first and then the choice of the word to express it.We learn A for apple,B for Biscuit,C for Custard,etc.We are just taught that Apple is apple,Biscuit is Biscuit and Custard is custard and learn to use these words.We never question why Apple should be called Apple or Biscuit should be called Biscuit,etc.There is no connection between the sound 'Apple' and the Object that it brings to our mind ,i.e the Apple Fruit.It is simply called so through conventional usage and we accept it and employ it.We then form sentences to express ourselves,our thoughts.
Unlike this,the Vedic Language is deeply symbolic,in that the very sound naturally brought forth the image signified to the mind.Not just this,the very same word was used to signify different objects which shared that quality signified.This brought in the possibility wherein the same sentence may come to have a deep significance for someone initiated into its mysteries and at the same time carry something totally pedestrian and common place for the vast majority of laymen.
Anyone who tries to translate the Vedas will run the risk of interpreting it in the ordinary sense-and brand it as part of Karma Kanda.Unless one has the key to Vedic symbolism,the true inner sense will forever elude him.He will then brand that this part of Vedas only serve to prepare for what eventually the Upanishads are going to proclaim as eternal verities.He will then mistake that the upanishads are the part of Vedas that Deal with Eternal truths and that the rest of the Vedas are some sort of a hotch potch,and at best a preparatory prelude to the upanishads and can be dispensed with safely.
How to understand the symbolic sense of the Vedas?How to draw on the founts of inspiration inherent in the Vedas?How many are at all aware that such a deep and complete body of knowledge has survived over the ages?What is the nature of this Robustness?
Most Indians are totally ignorant of this Most Ancient Science and discipline.Atleast a rudimentray acquaintance with these aspects of the Vedas will help us suspect deeper treasures hidden herein and encourage us to foster what little remains in practice.
The talks of mahaswami on the Vedas cover all these aspects.Later,we will also see what Sri Aurobindo has to say on many of these aspects.It is in this spirit that this thread was launched.
Namaskar

atmavichar100

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #72 on: July 02, 2014, 05:30:30 PM »
Quote
Most Indians are totally ignorant of this Most Ancient Science and discipline.Atleast a rudimentray acquaintance with these aspects of the Vedas will help us suspect deeper treasures hidden herein and encourage us to foster what little remains in practice.
The talks of mahaswami on the Vedas cover all these aspects.Later,we will also see what Sri Aurobindo has to say on many of these aspects.It is in this spirit that this thread was launched.

Dear Sri Ravi

What you said is very true . Few years back there was a program on TV in which many people assembled there claimed how they were fooled by various Godmen /astrologers /sooth sayers etc .  One Swami from some Hindu spiritual institution who had come as the Chief Guest of that program asked the audience how many of you have studied the Bhagavad Gita Completely ( any one version / any author ) and no one raised the hands .Next he asked how many of you at least attempted to study the same thoroughly ( not just browsing it through here and there ) and again no one raised the hands . Then he asked how many of you have at least the Bhagavad Gita book  ( any version ) in your house then few hands rose up . He smiled and told that he is not surprised that these people got fooled by Godmen , astrologers , soothsayers etc etc . He told it is the duty of every Hindu to at least make an attempt to study one version of the Bhagavad Gita thoroughly so that they have answers to most of the problems they face in their day to day life and do not run to astrologers /Godmen / sooth sayers to find answers to the same .
I would modify the above reply to say that every Hindu must first thoroughly study the 7 Volumes of the Voice of God ( Deivathin Kural ) of Kanchi Mahaswamigal and at least 1 version of the Bhagavad Gita thoroughly so that most of the answers that they are seeking are already available there without the need to run to astrologers .Godmen /sooth sayers etc . Today with the advancement in technology both the above resources are available for free on the net and people can download the same and read it on their desktops / laptops/tablets /Iphones etc .
Sringeri Acharya Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati said that for acquiring worldly riches  we are willing to cross the seas and willing to endure various hardships in foreign lands but for spiritual wealth we want it to be delivered to our homes on a plate and enjoy  the same with least effort . Spiritual laziness is responsible for the mushrooming of many pseudo spiritual organizations and half baked spiritual teachers in India and abroad who exploit / misguide the people and after getting fooled by them people end up crying later as it happened in that TV Program where many wept as to how they were exploited by various teachers /Godmen /astrologers etc .
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 06:21:35 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

ksksat27

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #73 on: July 03, 2014, 11:21:54 AM »
ksksat(Krishna),
I responded to your personal mail twice,looks like you are not accessing your yahoo id.Please let me know if you have any other mail id that i can respond to.I will again mail it.

Coming to your request-that I must summarize my thoughts on Vedas,I am not sure what you need.One fundamental thing that I would point out with regard to the Vedas is the Nature of sound and the very language of the Vedas.In the Vedas,the sound comes first and then the meaning follows.In everyday language,the Meaning comes first and then the choice of the word to express it.We learn A for apple,B for Biscuit,C for Custard,etc.We are just taught that Apple is apple,Biscuit is Biscuit and Custard is custard and learn to use these words.We never question why Apple should be called Apple or Biscuit should be called Biscuit,etc.There is no connection between the sound 'Apple' and the Object that it brings to our mind ,i.e the Apple Fruit.It is simply called so through conventional usage and we accept it and employ it.We then form sentences to express ourselves,our thoughts.
Unlike this,the Vedic Language is deeply symbolic,in that the very sound naturally brought forth the image signified to the mind.Not just this,the very same word was used to signify different objects which shared that quality signified.This brought in the possibility wherein the same sentence may come to have a deep significance for someone initiated into its mysteries and at the same time carry something totally pedestrian and common place for the vast majority of laymen.
Anyone who tries to translate the Vedas will run the risk of interpreting it in the ordinary sense-and brand it as part of Karma Kanda.Unless one has the key to Vedic symbolism,the true inner sense will forever elude him.He will then brand that this part of Vedas only serve to prepare for what eventually the Upanishads are going to proclaim as eternal verities.He will then mistake that the upanishads are the part of Vedas that Deal with Eternal truths and that the rest of the Vedas are some sort of a hotch potch,and at best a preparatory prelude to the upanishads and can be dispensed with safely.
How to understand the symbolic sense of the Vedas?How to draw on the founts of inspiration inherent in the Vedas?How many are at all aware that such a deep and complete body of knowledge has survived over the ages?What is the nature of this Robustness?
Most Indians are totally ignorant of this Most Ancient Science and discipline.Atleast a rudimentray acquaintance with these aspects of the Vedas will help us suspect deeper treasures hidden herein and encourage us to foster what little remains in practice.
The talks of mahaswami on the Vedas cover all these aspects.Later,we will also see what Sri Aurobindo has to say on many of these aspects.It is in this spirit that this thread was launched.
Namaskar

wonderful sir.  this sets in the old dejavu of 2010s, 2011s where you had posted your valuable points on many of the topics in David Godman blog.

Thanks for mailing ,  pls forward to ksksat27@gmail.com   also.;  will check and hope to get light .

Ravi.N

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Re: The Vedas
« Reply #74 on: July 05, 2014, 08:54:07 AM »
KAnchi mahAswAmi on the vedas -Sadanga: The Six Limbs of the Vedas continued...

The Rgveda and the Samaveda are entirely poetical in form. The Yajurveda consists of both prose and poetry. It is because poetry forms their major part that the Vedas are called Chandas.The tailor takes your measurement to make your suit. He will not otherwise be able to cut the cloth properly. Similarly, poetry gives form to
our thoughts and feelings. Your shirt has to be so many inches wide, so many inches long, isn't so? Similarly, poetry also has its measurement expressed in "feet" and number of syllables. The Sastra that deals with such measurement is "Chandas" and the text on which it is chiefly based is Chanda sutra by Pingala. People who have received initiation into a mantra touch their head with their hand, mentioning the name of the sage associated with the mantra, touch their nose mentioning the
chandas and touch their heart mentioning the deity invoked.

A Vedic mantra or the stanza of an ordinary poem is divided into four parts. In most metres there are four feet and each foot is divided into the same number of syllables or mantras.In most poems the padas are equal. Let me illustrate with a sloka with which, I suppose, all of you are familiar,The four feet of this stanza:

Suklambaradharam Visnum
Sasivarnam caturbhujam
Prasannavadanam dhyayet
Sarvavighnopasantaye

Each pada in this has eight syllables.Only vowels and consonants in conjunction with vowels are to be counted as syllables; other consonants are not to be counted. Then alone will you get the figure of eight. The eight syllables in the first pada are :1.su; 2. klam; 3. ba; 4. ra; 5. dha; 6. ram; 7. vi; 8. snum. The other padas will
have similarly eight syllables each.The stanza with four feet, each foot of eight syllables, is "Anustubh", which metre is used in the Vedas and in poetical works of a later period.

As mentioned earlier, the foot of a stanza with eight syllables Anustubh. With nine syllables it is "Brhati" and with ten "Pankti". "Tristubh" has eleven syllables and "Jagati" twelve. We have a 26 syllable metre ("Bhujangavijrambhita") which belongs to the category of "Utkrti". Beyond this is "Dandaka" of which there are several types. The metre in which Apparasvamigal's Tiru-t-tandagam is composed is related to this metre.

"Gayatri", "Usnik", "Anustubh", "Pankti", "Tristubh" and "Jagati" are Vedic metres.

continued...