Author Topic: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms  (Read 24009 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #90 on: May 26, 2014, 07:49:23 AM »
Hari,
We are not into semantics here.We are just discussing the self existent nature of Love(anbu in Tamizh and Priyam in sanskrit).Love is Truth,consciousness ,Bliss.These are not 3 Different, unconnected,independent  terms.They are just used to describe the nature of what is beyond description.This is to say that it is Sat-means Truth that exists forever;it is Chit-means that it is self conscious and it is Ananda-means that it is Bliss that is self existent and causeless.
The simple fact is that there is one source that alone exists, is aware and is Bliss.(sat-chit-Ananda).The same is called asti,bhati-priyam.
If Westerners have to understand Eastern Philosophy,it is important that they learn to be familiar with this connotation and understand the terminology of 'Anbu' and 'Priyam'.
As Tirumoolar has clearly stated,Anbey Sivam-Love alone is Sivam.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 02:13:58 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #91 on: May 26, 2014, 08:16:46 AM »
Hari/Friends,
This is what the Great Sage Yajnyavalkya said to his wife Maitreyi:

Quote
It is not for the sake of the husband that the wife loves the husband, but for the sake of the atman that she loves the husband, because she loves the Self. None loves the wife for the sake of the wife; but it is because one loves the Self that one loves the wife

You may like to read this talk of Swami Vivekananda:
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_2/practical_vedanta_and_other_lectures/yajnavalkya_and_maitreyi.htm

It is clear that in the worldly sense Love is so to say 'Proxy Love'.True Love is part and parcel of the Self and is the Self.

The above talk and especially Maitreyi's immediate Fear to dispense with the Gods is typical,and how she says:
Quote
"Sir, here is exactly where you have thrown a delusion over me. You have frightened me by saying there will be no more gods; all individuality will be lost. There will be no one to recognise, no one to love, no one to hate. What will become of us?"


This is exactly what we are discussing.

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 02:12:51 PM by Ravi.N »

Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #92 on: May 26, 2014, 05:30:28 PM »
We are not into semantics here.We are just discussing the self existent nature of Love.

I am just saying that Self-existent nature of Love is contradictio in terminis. For me only Sat-Chita-Ananda alone can be Self-existent. It's not about semantics. It is about right explanation of the matter to the people. Westerners would be totally mislead because of this play of words. So in a way semantics is important here.
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Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #93 on: May 26, 2014, 05:32:24 PM »
Hari/Friends,
This is what the Great Sage Yajnyavalkya said to his wife Maitreyi:

Quote
It is not for the sake of the husband that the wife loves the husband, but for the sake of the atman that she loves the husband, because she loves the Self. None loves the wife for the sake of the wife; but it is because one loves the Self that one loves the wife

You may like to read this talk of Swami Vivekananda:
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_2/practical_vedanta_and_other_lectures/yajnavalkya_and_maitreyi.htm

It is clear that in the worldly sense Love is so to say 'Proxy Love'.True Love is part and parcel of the Self and is the Self.

The above talk and especially Maitreyi's immediate Fear to dispense with the Gods is typical,and how she says:
Quote
"Sir, here is exactly where you have thrown a delusion over me. You have frightened me by saying there will be no more gods; all individuality will be lost. There will be no one to recognise, no one to love, no one to hate. What will become of us?"


This is exactly what we are discussing.

Namaskar.

Yajnyavalkya here talks about from the viewpoint of the mind. He says the we (the ego, mind) love what we love because the Self is inherent in these things we love.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #94 on: May 26, 2014, 07:43:35 PM »
Hari,
'Love of the Object' is a product of the mind or ego and is limited and colored by the mind.Love is part and parcel of the Self and is unlimited.Self is ever revelling in The Self.

This what Yajnyavalkya says:

'Whose is this sweetness? How can there be any sweetness but He? That one sweetness is manifesting itself in various ways'

This Love is inherent in the Self and not in the ego or the mind.Just like if the sea bed is wet,the wetness does not belong to the sand but to Water.On account of Water,the Beach sand is wet.There is no wetness in Sand.
This is why Tirumoolar has said-'Anbey Sivam'.

Anyway,If you feel otherwise,please carry on with your understanding.It is sadhana that is important.

Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #95 on: May 26, 2014, 08:39:06 PM »
Truly speaking, Sri Ravi. I dont have any problem with your interpretation at all. But according to my understanding and the most people around the world for Love there must be beloved (which is an object). I agree with you that sadhana and most importantly - the realization is what matter. What we do here is just mind's play.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2014, 06:59:13 AM »
Hari/Friends,
It is only natural that as humans we can appreciate God as a person.The Impersonal seems abstract and unrelated.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna where the Master refers to the confusion that scholars  have regarding this and winds it up with his usual humour:

Confusion of mere scholars
"The instruction of a man who has not seen God does not produce the right effect. He may say one thing rightly, but he becomes confused about the next.
"Samadhyayi delivered a lecture. He said: 'God is beyond words and mind; He is dry. Worship Him through the bliss of your love and devotion.' Just see, he thus described God, whose very nature is Joy and Bliss! What will such a lecture accomplish? Can it teach people anything? Such a lecturer is like the man who said, 'my uncle's cow-shed is full of horses.' Horses in the cow-shed! (All laugh.) From that you can understand that there were no horses at all."
DOCTOR (smiling): "Nor cows either!" (All laugh.)

Namaskar