Author Topic: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms  (Read 22173 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2014, 08:09:44 PM »
Hari,

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What Sages mean by Love is not the Love as we understand it at least intellectually

Depends on what that understanding is.

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Love is unconditional giving without wanting nothing in return in conventional sense of the word

Let us say for understanding sake that no one wants anything from us.Do we mean to say that Love cannot be!

Namaskar.


Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2014, 08:15:58 PM »
Hari,

Quote
What Sages mean by Love is not the Love as we understand it at least intellectually

Depends on what that understanding is.

Quote
Love is unconditional giving without wanting nothing in return in conventional sense of the word

Let us say for understanding sake that no one wants anything from us.Do we mean to say that Love cannot be!

Namaskar.

We always give to them, no matter if they want it or not. We give them our attention, care, love, food and so on. And this make us happy and joyful. If there is no giving and/or accepting there is no communication, no contact of any kind between two people don't you think so?
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #77 on: May 24, 2014, 08:30:18 PM »
Hari,

Quote
We always give to them, no matter if they want it or not. We give them our attention, care, love, food and so on. And this make us happy and joyful. If there is no giving and/or accepting there is no communication, no contact of any kind between two people don't you think so?

Friend,let us go into this,for understanding sake .Don't we see this is on flimsy ground and quite problematic?If others do not need anything ,what prompts us to give?Suppose they refuse to take,then what?If our happiness and joy depends on others and meeting their needs,what sort of happiness and joy would that be?

Namaskar.





Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #78 on: May 24, 2014, 08:34:30 PM »
If the bhakta has some bad experience in life and he knows that God has allowed this to happen do you think that this bhakta will stop to worship God and love Him?
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2014, 08:40:04 PM »
Hari,

We are discussing Love,the nature of Love.Whether this love is Self existent or has to depend on others for its existence.

We will discuss the subject of Bhakta a little later if need be.

Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #80 on: May 24, 2014, 08:44:42 PM »
We are talking about the Supreme Unconditional Love which is the bhakta's ideal and which even Advaitins preach. This was our topic in the first place. We don't talk about "the first teenage love" or sort of that. So I think that we do not diverge from the point of our conversation.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #81 on: May 24, 2014, 08:48:55 PM »
Hari,

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We are talking about the Supreme Unconditional Love which is the bhakta's ideal and which even Advaitins preach
.

Yes,ofcourse.We are discussing this only.We are particularly discussing the Nature of Love that is Sivam where the Bhakta as an individual has ceased to be.There is only Being.This is the sum and substance of that Tirumoolar Verse.
This Love is Self existent.It does not depend on the 'Other' or 'Others'.
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #82 on: May 24, 2014, 08:54:54 PM »
There is no such thing for me as Self-existing Love. For Love there must be two. For 'Self-existing' Love there must be an ego (even in subtle form) as it is the case with the bhakti (as in Sri Ramakrishna, He Himself has told that). If it is not so it is not correct to use the world Love at all. It is only misleading. It would better be called Ananda (Bliss). 
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #83 on: May 24, 2014, 09:12:54 PM »
Hari,

The peak of Devotion is when one does not consider oneself as seperate from God.This is Parabhakti.This is Jnana.This is Love absolute.This is called ananya bhakti-Ananya means 'No other'.
This is how Sri Ramakrishna puts this:
One sees nothing but God everywhere when one loves Him with great intensity. It is like a person with jaundice, who sees everything yellow. Then one feels, 'I am verily He'.A drunkard, deeply intoxicated, says, 'Verily I am Kali!' The gopis, intoxicated with love, exclaimed, 'Verily I am Krishna!'
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #84 on: May 24, 2014, 09:18:50 PM »
Hari,
Please go with what you have understood;only we must not think that this is final.This is Sri Ramakrishna's advice.As we go along with sincerity and earnestness everything will become clear in due course.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2014, 09:21:37 PM »
Hari,
We may try to understand it this way.
Love is inversely proportional to Ego;the lesser the claims of ego,the Greater the Love.If the Ego totally Disappears,Love becomes infinite.This is Sivam.
Namaskar

Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #86 on: May 25, 2014, 07:43:33 PM »
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One sees nothing but God everywhere when one loves Him with great intensity. It is like a person with jaundice, who sees everything yellow. Then one feels, 'I am verily He'.A drunkard, deeply intoxicated, says, 'Verily I am Kali!' The gopis, intoxicated with love, exclaimed, 'Verily I am Krishna!'

There is still 'one', an ego.

Quote
We may try to understand it this way.
Love is inversely proportional to Ego;the lesser the claims of ego,the Greater the Love.If the Ego totally Disappears,Love becomes infinite.This is Sivam.

If the ego disappears Love disappears also and 'become' Sat-Chit-Ananda. There is no more Love.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #87 on: May 25, 2014, 07:54:38 PM »
Hari,
If one exists ,two,three....many will be there.So,'I am He' has to be understood differently.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #88 on: May 25, 2014, 08:28:38 PM »
Hari/Friends,
God is the source of all goodness and Love.You may call Love as Ananda.
Sat-chit-ananda and asti-bhati-priyam are one and the same.
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Reality of Shiva, Vishnu and other forms
« Reply #89 on: May 25, 2014, 08:54:42 PM »
Sri Ravi,
in my view Love and Sat-Chit-Ananda are relative terms and should be used properly and right in the context. Especially now when more and more westerners are open to Eastern religions. I dont engage you with my opinion.


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