Author Topic: Jesus Christ as Saviour.  (Read 2469 times)

mcozire

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Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« on: April 23, 2014, 05:49:54 PM »
Hi all!

Every time I decided that I am going to stop trying to figure all this out, I get some temporary leave from it, and then it all comes back in a flurry.

I am trying to understand the unity of the 'Abrahamic' religions, and the more eastern religions. The main difference I am trying to figure out is the role of Jesus Christ as Saviour.

Is it possible that within this divine play, that God became man for us, and died, to release us from our karmic debt completely?

Meaning, that all we have to do now is look towards Jesus Christ, and we do not get reincarnated?

The story of Jesus Christ is pretty unique when you look at it, crucifixion, and dying for our sins.

Would people like to share how the see the story of Jesus Christ, and how they relate to him?

I absolutely believe in One god, but I pray, and wish, that I could understand these differences. People believe that the Catholic Church is guided by God, if we are to believe this, how are we to reconcile, Advaita Vedanta, with the Dogmas of the Church? Why has God let such mass confusion be with us, in the one area that should be the most simple and helping?

Is it that institutions like the Church, have fallen from the silent wisdom, and that they are merely machines of the human ego, and pride?

I apologise for these questions, I'm sure in the grand scheme of things, they are nothing, but I just can't rid them from my mind.

Many thanks!
God bless,
Mark.

mcozire

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 06:36:16 PM »
Christ is the ego. The Cross is the Body. When the ego is crucified, and it perishes, what survives is the Absolute Being (God), (I and my Father are one?) and this glorious survival is called Resurrection.

This is what Sri Ramana Maharshi has spoken of, about the resurrection. When this is spoken I understand it immediately. But if we read the Gospel of John, we are introduced to an actual risen Jesus Christ.

Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?" Supposing Him to be the gardener, she said to Him, "Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away."

Jesus said to her, "Mary!" She turned and said to Him in Hebrew, "Rabboni!" (which means, Teacher).

Jesus said to her, ?Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ?I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.??

So here we have an actual risen Jesus. Now with in the scope of there being spiritual domains, is it possible that there is a new spiritual domain set up, awaiting us, and that their is an actual risen Jesus christ?

Because this is what the Gospel of John says. So how are we to interpret these things?

Speaking to Thomas he said, Jesus said.

?Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.?


So what is the truth of this matter? I have read else where that once a person is fully liberated, he no longer has any body at all? How are we to understand these things?

Many thanks,
Mark.



Ravi.N

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 09:11:51 PM »
Mark,
You have raised a number of questions.I will only attempt to answer a few key questions.

1.Would people like to share how the see the story of Jesus Christ, and how they relate to him?
Mark,I do consider Jesus, the Christ as what Hindus call as Avatara-a special manifestation of God.The Teachings of Jesus are truly wonderful and are no different than Vedantic Teachings.The Glory of Jesus ,as I understand and feel inspired is the life of Renunciation that he lived and not the 'Deification' of his Death through crucifixion.

Someone said,a little bluntly though:

Quote
The central doctrine of the cult, vicarious salvation by the sacrifice of Jesus, is a false doctrine. Nobody is saved by the death of another man two millennia ago. That is just superstition and a refusal to accept responsibility for one's own deeds. No Hindu guru would teach such an irresponsible, childish idea!

I tend to agree with this statement -that to miss out on all the wonderful life of Jesus and his teachings ,and to hang on to a belief around his vicarious dying for other's sins!-This sort of a view undermines all that Jesus lived and taught.

The question of his 'Resurrection' is equally unimportant ,if we view his crucifixion objectively.All this is totally insignificant and does not add an iota to what Jesus taught of the Life of Spirit.

I do not like to picturize Jesus the Christ as some 'wizard' or 'Magician' or a 'Miracle monger' -but as a truly spiritually enlightened soul,an avatara who came to teach us the True life of Renunciation and way to attain immortality-through the way of peace and blessedness.

Personality cults are the breeding ground of all superstition and intolerance and the spiritual seeker will steer clear of such turbid waters .

2.I absolutely believe in One god, but I pray, and wish, that I could understand these differences. People believe that the Catholic Church is guided by God, if we are to believe this, how are we to reconcile, Advaita Vedanta, with the Dogmas of the Church? Why has God let such mass confusion be with us, in the one area that should be the most simple and helping?

You are absolutely right in believing that God or Spirit or Truth is one.The Differences are only seemingly so and are not real.They are on account of different stages of maturity and background of the seekers.

3.Is it that institutions like the Church, have fallen from the silent wisdom, and that they are merely machines of the human ego, and pride?

Swami Vivekananda once said:It is good to be born in a church but bad to die in one-What he meant was that it is good to start with belief and Doctrines but one has to soon graduate from all these gropings into certitude.One has to have the courage and integrity to question and set aside what is limited and binding ,and not universal.

Namaskar.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 09:14:24 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 06:17:10 AM »
Mark,
I did not answer the final question that you have asked:

4.So what is the truth of this matter? I have read else where that once a person is fully liberated, he no longer has any body at all? How are we to understand these things?

The JnAni identifies himself as the Eternal spirit-Sat chit Ananda and the identification with the body ceases.It just does not matter whether the body lives or falls off in death.

In the Eastern Tradition when someone dies,it is generally said:'He gave up the Body'-Meaning that the True Person is the spirit that seemingly inhabits the body.

In The Western Tradition when someone dies,it is said:'He Gave up the Ghost'-The identification of the person with the body is so strong.Hence the importance attached to the 'Resurrection' of Life in the 'Body' as in the case of Jesus,The Christ.

To be attached to the Body is the Real crucifixion as Bhagavan Ramana has so wonderfully stated.To be free from attachment to Body is True Resurrection.This is true not just for Jesus but for each and every one of us,and for all beings.This is the universal Truth,valid for one and all.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 07:13:38 AM »
Mark/Friends,

You may like to read this wonderful talk of Swami Vivekananda on Bhakti or Devotion:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/Volume_2/Bhakti_or_Devotion

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 04:27:52 PM »
Mark,
I warmly recommend the book 'Sermon on the mount according to Vedanta' by Swami Prabhavananda,a monk of the Ramakrishna order.You may find the reviews on this book helpful:
http://adishakti.org/_/sermon_on_the_mount_by_swami_prabhavananda.htm
The kindle edition can be purchased from Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0031ER4VA/ref=kics_dp_shop_now_box

Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 07:47:54 AM »
Dear Mark,

For me,Jesus is manifestation of one and only God,and He will always be so. I see Him like embodiment of Love and Truth,of such sweetness and goodness. I believe He came to help mankind and He is nothing but Saviour. Saviour like Bhagavan was,like Buddha was...

But there i do not count Church,because it is not Church that is important,but Jesus,the Truth He preached. Importance of the church like institution men invented. I am sure Jesus fighted against such things like condemnation and dogmatism. I do not accept anything like true which divides people and spread confusion and fear. My thinking is that Jesus fighted these very things,that "Christianity" is not His invention,but ours. He preached love and simple truth. But people could not understand it,or they simply saw their opportunity for power and influence,and they distorted everything. If we only remember inquisition and how many people are killed because superstition and stupidity in the name of God.

And i believe all religions,all institutions like that are like this. I do not think it is the thing with Christianity only. Everything which is guided by ignorant and ambitious people must be like this. There is no teaching which is not distorded and ruined. Literally all!
So far i did not sow some established religion without these dogmatic things,so to say. But this is natural,sinse people lead it.
But,it is not all bad in Church. There will be always wise and good individuals and priests,Saints,and there is that spirit of faith,of God which will always help people in many ways. I met many good people of Church and i truly respect and love them,but i avoid classical teachings  so to say,at least,their explanation about Jesus and everything.
So for me,it is not Church which is important,but God. I think there lies theirs problem. They forgot whoes Church this is.

And indeed,Bhagavan's explanation is perfect,about symbolism. But i also strongly believe that all happened ,with some differwnces probably. Even if He came just to show us that symbolism,among other things. So all in all,i think that many teachings of Jesus iare changed or ruined,many hidden,,but neverteless,one thing they cannot hide,coz that is giving them power. Jesus Himself. :)


With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: April 25, 2014, 07:53:37 AM by Jewell »

Om Hridayam

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2014, 06:38:08 PM »
The Catholic Church is no better or worse than any other religion. I think it's kind of a giveaway when someone focuses on the Church as an institution rather than the saints it has produced. If you are inclined to dislike it, OK, but you should at the very least in honor of the truth look for the good it does, too. It is the largest health care provider in the world, for one thing. To point out errors in its doctrine according to another viewpoint does nothing, really. Are Advatitins going to pay any attention to when Catholic leaders critique Advaita? Or for that matter any religion you can name... does the Sikh view of Advaita change your view of Advaita?

I don't remember Ramana ever saying anything remotely close to "(Religion X) is wrong because it asserts a "childish irresponsible idea"
Ramana's behavior is always something worth pondering, IMO.
Differences exist, certainly. Disrespecting another path that you are not representing objectively? Not a terribly great idea.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2014, 06:39:51 PM by Om Hridayam »

mcozire

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Re: Jesus Christ as Saviour.
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2014, 03:00:50 PM »
Hi everyone!

Sorry about the delay in replying!

Thank you all so much for your replies!

Thanks Ravi.N for your replies, and recommending the book, I just purchased it there :)

I feel at some level I have made my peace with these theological mind whirlings, I see them as an endless pit to be honest, that one could argue for all ages to come. I do prefer to realise, that in my silence, I see and feel that, which is the same for one and all, and that, that, must be what we are all talking about, in so many ways, in so many metaphors, in so many words.

Thank you all again,
God Bless.