Getting to terms with Sri Nisargadatta Maharajs view on the Truth.

[mcozire]

Thank you so much Ravi.N, Nagaraj, Jewell, it is so wonderful to have such wise and kind people here to take comfort in. Many thanks again.

I feel refreshed reading these comments, but also a little sad, and or lost, or something, but hope as well!

When I read the words of Sri Ramakrishna, saying there must be 'Intense longing (enables one) to see God', I felt at once sad in my heart, I think it was because I felt I didn't have intense longing, but then I wondered, is not this saddens, the very longing?

I guess I feel like I am in a part in my life where I am 'between two banks' my old life is changing, but I do not see anything in front of me? Or something :/

I think what is worrying me the most at the moment is that, I am to be married soon, and I am delighted about it! But also, I feel as if I have no particular desire for any kind of work! But I must work to support my future family. In fact, it is strange, I feel desireless, yet restless, when I look around I do not see anything I wish to do, yet I am restless to do something!

Or perhaps there is just desire there to be doing something, but nothing in particular, .. he he.. as you can see I'm quite confused!

At night I can mentally wipe away all the things that come in front of me, even comes in front of my mind, can I wipe away 'myself', and be ok with that, and then I do, and I am left in that empty awareness, but I do not stay there for long.

I know that my only true desire is truth, I know this for certain, but sometimes it feels as if that the search for god doesn't 'work' with the world? Or something?

Anyways, forgive me for my ramblings, many many thanks for your replies and help. I do feel in my heart that it is the one thing, in many variations. And when I look back on it, my problems only came about when I tried to think out Sri Nisargadatta view on Reality, which I know he would have emphatically shot down!

So much thanks, so much love,
God bless.
Mark.

[Jewell]

Dear Mark,

How You described Your feelings and thoughts,is something,i think,we all are going through more and less. It is hard battle indeed. But thinking deeply about it,i think it is hard battle only for ego. I aslo found myself in these contradictory urges and struggles,when on on hand we don not feel the need to live active life,and than,there is actual desire to live it.
See,analising myself i came to understanding that i do not feel desire to ingludge in all sorts of wordly thing,and i wish only rest from all this,from myself mostly. But than,going deeper,i saw i actualy want it in one hand,only,i want it in my way.
But even that is not completely true. This ego needs food,needs desires,needs hope. When at some point that hope is taken,it is left empty handed,nowhere to go,nothing to do,nothing to hope for. And when it sees how its desires are completely contradictional,how anything except God cannot give him happiness,how it cannot even truly say that it wants something,coz these wantings seem to be so delusional and vain,it found itself in darkness. But this darkness is good. I think that is the fight betwean light and darkness,Reality and dellusion. Like that very struggle Sri Arjuna is going through. And Sri Krishna ask Him to fight,to go through everything dettached.
But it is hard,very hard. But,also,very possible.

I think some urges come from God,some from this ego,but i what i saw so far,all this sadness is just ego sadness. There is only why,and we can reveal it through deep analisis only. Why i have found like helpful to myself is to face it. Completely! To see what it is.

Like both Maharaj and Bhagavan would say:" To whom is sadness,to whom is indiference,to whom is pain?!"
Don't worry about future,to whom is future?. Let God,let Your own Self guide You and do what ever is necessary coz we are not doers in the first place. I am telling that to myself all the time. Like Sri Krishna said(in my own words),Leave fruits to Myself,You just fight unattached.

With love and prayers,

[Ravi.N]

Mark,

I think what is worrying me the most at the moment is that, I am to be married soon, and I am delighted about it! But also, I feel as if I have no particular desire for any kind of work! But I must work to support my future family. In fact, it is strange, I feel desireless, yet restless, when I look around I do not see anything I wish to do, yet I am restless to do something!

Entering into wedlock is a Huge responsibility and quite a noble one as well if lived with selflessness and in a spirit of service.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Traits of a true devotee

"There are certain signs by which you can know a true devotee of God. His mind becomes quiet as he listens to his teacher's instruction, just as the poisonous snake is quieted by the music of the charmer. I don't mean the cobra. There is another sign. A real devotee develops the power of assimilating instruction. An image cannot be impressed on bare glass, but only on glass stained with a black solution, as in photography. The black solution is devotion to God. There is a third sign of a true devotee. The true devotee has controlled his senses. He has subdued his lust. The gopis were free from lust.

You are talking about your leading a householder's life. Suppose you are a householder. It rather helps in the practice of spiritual discipline. It is like fighting from inside a fort. The Tantriks sometimes use a corpse in their religious rites. Now and then the dead body frightens them by opening its mouth. That is why they keep fried rice and grams near them, and from time to time they throw some of the grains into the corpse's mouth. Thus pacifying the corpse, they repeat the name of the Deity without any worry. Likewise, the householder should pacify his wife and the other members of his family. He should provide them with food and other necessities. Thus he removes the obstacles to his practice of spiritual discipline.

Those who still have a few worldly experiences to enjoy should lead a householder's life and pray to God".
There are several wonderful guidelines for the householder to live by-Fundamentally one should learn to give up one's likes and dislikes and perform all actions in a spirit of non-attachment.

The True thing is not to let desire govern one's works but to do what is required to be done whether one has the inclination or not.What needs to be done has to be done-Be it earning money,looking after other members of the family,and all other duties that are incumbent on a Householder.Alll these have to be considered well and one should then enter the Householder's Ashrama with one hundred percent commitment and trust in God.

Wishing you the very Best.

Namaskar.

[mcozire]

Many thanks Jewell, and Ravi.N.

I find both your words and advice comforting, and I will surely revisit them many times.

Thanks again,
Much love,
God bless,
Mark.

[ksksat27]

Hey everyone!

I have become a little perplexed from trying to understand Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj view on Reality, and Truth.

I am starting to come to this view that, it is in fact this 'world', the 'body', this present manifestation that is the actual truth, and that the spiritual realms of heavens and all that are completely fabricated, and god also. Also that when this life is up, it's over. I am coming to this understanding, from both Sri Ramana, and Sri Nisargadatta. Especially Sri Nisargadatta. He simply says that it is the body, that is the food stuff, for the conciousness, and that conciousness is everywhere present.

Ok this is no problem, but then he goes onto say that this creation came spontaneously, with out reason, or volition, in that sense then, is this whole thing just random? Isn't that what the atheists say? That there was no creator, it is just random, by chance, spontaneous.

He also goes onto completely deny reincarnation, in the sense that there is no one actually here, so who would re incarnate? In that sense then my existence is completely meaningless, I literally spontaneously came about, I live this pre-scripted life, and then I die. That is that. Reincarnation is a story we tell ourselves, just to get by, and so are the heavens? And god? That is the picture I am getting from Nisargadatta at the moment.

There certainly is no trace of there being, a being who is actively engaged in controlling, looking out for, helping, engaging with, befriending all the beings currently alive. It appears as if it is just the scientific explanation of a mechanical play unfolding, the three gunas at play as Nisargadatta says.

I think what is frustrating me at the moment is that, I guess on one level, I would like to feel 'protected' and actively loved by a supreme being, one that I can have a relationship with, rather than just being a spontaneous accident in conciousness, where I actually don't exist, and I will die, and that's the end of that.

Can someone help me find my feet again in all this :/

Many many thanks,
Mark.

Mark,

Beautiful, your questions are beautiful,  you have studied Nisarghadatta , that is beautiful,  you want to be loved by God and feel that sense of etenrtiy and protection that is beautiful.

Please do read and reply to my answers.

First thing, first,  it is never easy to understand Sri Nisarghadatta Maharaj.

Whatever you have interpreted from his sayings are really not fully correct.

Sri Maharaj was a fully enlightened jnani from Dattatreya sampradaya.

The main teaching of Sri Maharaj is to say in that "I am" feeling all the time.  He promised us that it will reveal all mysteries.  Please do that to your best.

Also if you want to get his teachings well, have a photo of Dattatreya and Nisargha and sincerely pray to him.

It works for me like that.

Maharaj character is this: suddenly to embrace a dog eater and next moment he will throw away a supremely pious person.  We can never predict.  But with humility one can really really get a lot from him.  You read his seeds of consciousness.  it is really wonderful.

I dont know how I shall put it, but Maharaj never meant atheism.   Re-incarnation he did reject in his very last days because Maharaj stabalized himself into a peculiar nirvana absolute state from where he was beyond the witness of the hiranygagarba princple.  You message me, we will discuss a lot about Maharaj.  He is a ocean, everytime you read about him you get a new meaning.

Once he told that people earn punyas by reading his teachings but he is not cared about it.

[ksksat27]

Mark,

This is taken from Ultimate medicine, conversations on the last year of the Master's physical life. Amazing indeed.


Maharaj: For meditation you should sit with identification with the
knowledge "I am" only and have confirmed to yourself that you are not
the body.  You must dwell only in that knowledge "I am"--not merely
the words "I am."  The design of your body does not signify your
identification.  And also, the name which is given to you or to the
body is not your correct identity.  The name which is imposed on you,
or the name which you have heard about you--you have accepted that
name as yourself.  Similarly, since you have seen your body, you
think you are the body.  So you have to give up both these
identities.  And the indwelling knowledge that you are, without
words, that itself you are.  In that identity, you must stabilize
yourself.  And then, whatever doubts you have, will be cleared by
that very knowledge, and everything will be opened up in you... 

Visitor: My question is, is there a useful way for arriving at moksha
and are there particular signs for distinguishing which paths are the
best for us?

M: You just listen to all this, whatever is being said here; follow
that, abide in that and be that.  Don't ask me about other paths. 
The path I am expounding, you listen to that, and abide in it...

V: I am interested especially in practice, how to start it.

M: Forget all about physical disciplines in this connection.  I am
telling you that the indwelling principle.  "I am," the knowledge
that you are, you have to *be* that.  Just be that.  With that
knowledge "I am," hold on to the knowledge "I am."

V: It is difficult to abandon attachment to action; even in this way
it is not easy always to remember "I am," the truth of the atman.

M: You know that you are sitting here; you know you are, do you
require any special effort to hold on to that "you are"?  You know
you are; abide in that.  The "I am" principle without words, that
itself is the God of all Ishwaras.

[Beloved Abstract]

i would say ... do not get too attached to any view on truth
views come and go , they are not truth itself
instead , investigate the self and see in the stillness if there is any boundary between you and truth
 

[mcozire]

Hey everyone!

Sorry only checking back in now.

Thank you so much ksksat, yes indeed, the I AM meditations are what I have grown most fond of, and a part of my mind knows that this is where it is, no doubt. Than you for that passage from the Ultimate medicine, it really does say it all.

When I hear, Christ say 'Abide in me, as I abide in you' I think of it in this way, to remain in the 'I am'

Thank you again, I may drop you a message from time to time

"Investigate the self and see in the stillness if there is any boundary between you and truth

Thank you Beloved Abstract, this really resonated with me.


Where I am now at the moment, is I am wondering how the mind creates such problems, even with things so simple. How do we have so many 'main' religions, and then so many sects within those religions, how has the mind made such a mess, of something that is so simple?

God is one, beyond the concept of one. There is no god, except god.


I guess now, I really am just wanted to be with that one, and I am realising that I am using the wrong tool, the mind, as in it wants to categorically, systematically, know what god is, which is the real 'one'. But that's not how it works is it?

So I think I really need to move from the mind, to the heart now. I feel like almost throwing away all my books, and even my computer at times.

Many thanks for all your comments, and support. This really is a wonderful place.

God bless,
Mark.

[ksksat27]

Hey everyone!

Sorry only checking back in now.

Thank you so much ksksat, yes indeed, the I AM meditations are what I have grown most fond of, and a part of my mind knows that this is where it is, no doubt. Than you for that passage from the Ultimate medicine, it really does say it all.

When I hear, Christ say 'Abide in me, as I abide in you' I think of it in this way, to remain in the 'I am'

Thank you again, I may drop you a message from time to time

"Investigate the self and see in the stillness if there is any boundary between you and truth

Thank you Beloved Abstract, this really resonated with me.


Where I am now at the moment, is I am wondering how the mind creates such problems, even with things so simple. How do we have so many 'main' religions, and then so many sects within those religions, how has the mind made such a mess, of something that is so simple?

God is one, beyond the concept of one. There is no god, except god.


I guess now, I really am just wanted to be with that one, and I am realising that I am using the wrong tool, the mind, as in it wants to categorically, systematically, know what god is, which is the real 'one'. But that's not how it works is it?

So I think I really need to move from the mind, to the heart now. I feel like almost throwing away all my books, and even my computer at times.

Many thanks for all your comments, and support. This really is a wonderful place.

God bless,
Mark.

dear Mark,

until you feel from your Heart to throw away the mind, dont throw it away for other's sake. be it atheism doubt , be it whatever it is,  stay with those disturbing thoughts for some time.  one day from innermost recess you will throw away all that.

until that moment, please dont throw away your mind's murmurs.  because it will get suppressed and again start later.

there are so many subsects because each mind is very very unique.  one rose is simply flowering in the Garden of God only for that mind.

until you find your rose,  all the sub sects will show itself until your mind catches That which will lead it go back from where it emerged.