Author Topic: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"  (Read 2501 times)

JoeM

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Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« on: October 20, 2013, 07:09:02 AM »
Hello,

I seem to be practicing laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara". I
experienced the "other" state a couple of times to know that I am
doing something wrong. But, I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.

Has anyone been able to get out of this phase? Can you please share your experiences?

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 20, 2013, 07:13:16 AM by JoeM »

ksksat27

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2013, 07:49:17 AM »
Hello,

I seem to be practicing laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara". I
experienced the "other" state a couple of times to know that I am
doing something wrong. But, I cannot figure out what I am doing wrong.

Has anyone been able to get out of this phase? Can you please share your experiences?

Thanks

What is the exact method you are following when you mean 'atma vichara'?

what is that other state you experienced and when?

only knowing these,  someone can offer some tips -- but there everybody are equally sadhakas only so the tips may or may not be correct.

for highest tips, just place your problem before Bhagavan Sri Ramana or Lord Arunachaleshwara and wait for an answer.

JoeM

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2013, 08:14:38 AM »
What is the exact method you are following when you mean 'atma vichara'?

I seem to be experiencing "blankness" most of the time. I am trying to search for "that" which is not the perceiver, feeler or thinker whenever I have a thought. But, the practice seems to be slipping towards that "blankness".

what is that other state you experienced and when?

A "joyful" state. I would say it felt like "magnified content". The "I" that I identify with in my daily activities was disappearing when this happened. I gather that to be in this state all the time is the goal of "atma vichara".

A couple of times it felt like being on a "roller-coaster". I later gathered that it is what is called "esctasy or bliss". But, in these states, there was an "I" watching that state. So, I feel that it is just a distraction and not useful.

for highest tips, just place your problem before Bhagavan Sri Ramana or Lord Arunachaleshwara and wait for an answer.

I tried this. But, I cannot be sure if my dreams/thoughts are just concoctions of my mind/ego. I figure asking here is my part of the effort. Maybe, a reply I receive would be Maharshi's way of answering.

Thanks

Jewell

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2013, 08:18:42 AM »
Dear JoeM,

Quote
    I seem to be practicing laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara".

I hope I will not seem rude,but this is so funny. Your honesty,and the way you said it. ;D

I didn't actually understood You correctly. Do You expect some similar experience to happen,or state,and in absence of it You think You are not progressing,or...?

I don't know how You are doing self enquiry,so I cannot tell. But I can tell You,in my case,it was never about what I was doing,but what I was thinking.

Few months ago,i had worst experience so far,and when I realized my mistake,it looked like fall from two thousand feet. I was in some strange phaze,or better to say,some weird trip. I went through many phases,and I learn few things from them. Never to listen my mind,and never to draw some conclusion fabout Reality. To dust my self off,and carry on.

And that about conclusion,can be also used in Your case,if You are expecting those states to happen again. They were necessery then to happen,but now You go further,and expectation of them is only hidrance. If I understood You well.

So far self enquiry is the case,it is important to hold on to sense of I Am,knowledge that You exist,sense of very presence,self attention,awareness,or complete wakefulness,turned to the one who is witnessing all that,to the witness itself. All experiences are not important,they are just experiences,trancient. Hold onto the one who experience all that.

Also,for me was always helpful to try to be honest to myself,to see where I am wrong,but,again,it was always the matter of thoughts actually,every mistake. Also,it is very hard to know where we stand,and how we are progressing. Sometimes quitet flow is very needed,and even,much mire fruitful then apparent visible progress. In some strange way,i could also see am I going in right direction,by the things happening around me. When I am where I need to be all settles,and when I am not that refexts on my sorroundings also. But I am not sure if that is like that in every case,and every time.

I hope this will be of some help,if all this have anything with that what You wrote...

With love and prayers,

Jewell

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2013, 08:48:24 AM »
Dear JoeM,

I just saw You answer to Sri Krishna.

Yes,You are right,these states are just obstacle,and they are just the mind. We need to focus on experiencer itself,the one who percieves,and who is aware of all that. To watch the watcher,Yourself.

Even that joy,extreme joy,in my case was very dangerous,coz it always brought totaly oposed sensations after it,sadness,etc. So,it is best to be always aware of every sensation,and not to go through extremes. But,again,awareness,and search for experiencer is the cure.

With love and prayers,

ksksat27

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 09:43:27 PM »
What is the exact method you are following when you mean 'atma vichara'?

I seem to be experiencing "blankness" most of the time. I am trying to search for "that" which is not the perceiver, feeler or thinker whenever I have a thought. But, the practice seems to be slipping towards that "blankness".

what is that other state you experienced and when?

A "joyful" state. I would say it felt like "magnified content". The "I" that I identify with in my daily activities was disappearing when this happened. I gather that to be in this state all the time is the goal of "atma vichara".

A couple of times it felt like being on a "roller-coaster". I later gathered that it is what is called "esctasy or bliss". But, in these states, there was an "I" watching that state. So, I feel that it is just a distraction and not useful.

for highest tips, just place your problem before Bhagavan Sri Ramana or Lord Arunachaleshwara and wait for an answer.

I tried this. But, I cannot be sure if my dreams/thoughts are just concoctions of my mind/ego. I figure asking here is my part of the effort. Maybe, a reply I receive would be Maharshi's way of answering.

Thanks

Dear Joem

The way in which we are doing self enquiry,  it is going well over above the head in utter confusion.

not just you,  many people n self enquiry messes up a lot,  especially these terms like bliss, void, blankess, state etc. etc. etc.

this is the mental equivalent of having bad skin rashes in one's body.

for me, my experience is,  sadhana leads to a state of acute pain and burning sensation most of the time.

only Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi can help us. Better have his photo, burn a lamp and incense and just sit before the image.  Dont even submit your problems.  This may bring some peace of mind atleast.

before closing, again,  you are just honest enough to accept,  many people are lying with these problems deep rooted and not knowing what to do.

deepa

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 08:39:31 AM »
JoeM:
Join me in the confusion :))

I have gone through many such highs and lows.. assuming that I have experienced "something" blissful to having tears roll down to frustration and sleeping too :)

The best advice my Guru gave me is that in all cases, it is the "ego" that is experiencing something and either rejoices or gets frustrated. So, since it is the "ego" assessing what you are experiencing, the "assessment" has no value. So, he said to keep watching oneself and trying to meditate/be as the Self without starting to "assess". Let all such experiences come and go.. bring back to being the Self.

Of course, if you find yourself falling asleep, you have to wake yourselves up!
Deepa

Subramanian.R

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 10:13:28 AM »
Dear Joem and deepa and others,

Laziness does not here mean the laziness of ordinary people.  For a Self Realized Jnani, who has realized the Self and remains
always in bliss, there is no karma left for doing further.  Hence he is without work i.e. lazy without any work.  He has no ego
and so thoughts and hence he can do nothing further.  All that he does is the usual work of bathing, eating etc.,  He has no
karma of anything else to do.  And that is laziness.  Sri Bhagavan Himself has called Himself as pani ledu vAdu - one who
has no work.  He is ever silent and does answer questions if asked by devotees.  His silent time ever enjoying the bliss of
Self is always more than His talking.  Even the works He has composed had come from the Power within and not voluntarily.

Arunachala Siva.     

Hari

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2013, 05:39:58 PM »
In my view Atma-vichara does not mean laziness in any kind. Atma-vichara is conscious effort to concentrate on "I"-thought. This sounds easy but actually this is even more difficult than building the pyramids of Giza. In time this practice becomes effortless but this is also not laziness but passive action of the mind. Laziness is just dullness of tamo guna. Atma-vichara is sattvic practice.
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ksksat27

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Re: Practising laziness in the guise of "Atma Vichara"
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2013, 12:42:46 PM »
Dear Joem and deepa and others,

Laziness does not here mean the laziness of ordinary people.  For a Self Realized Jnani, who has realized the Self and remains
always in bliss, there is no karma left for doing further.  Hence he is without work i.e. lazy without any work.  He has no ego
and so thoughts and hence he can do nothing further.  All that he does is the usual work of bathing, eating etc.,  He has no
karma of anything else to do.  And that is laziness.  Sri Bhagavan Himself has called Himself as pani ledu vAdu - one who
has no work.  He is ever silent and does answer questions if asked by devotees.  His silent time ever enjoying the bliss of
Self is always more than His talking.  Even the works He has composed had come from the Power within and not voluntarily.

Arunachala Siva.     

Dear Subramaniam Sir and Dear Hari,

we all agree that 'chumma iru' is not laziness.

The laziness and sleepy feeling referred to here by Deepa , me and JoeM is the difficulty encountered in the sadhana by the sadhaks and this thread does not discuss about a jnani's state at all. T

This laziness,  this confusions, this bliss, this frustration etc.  is the direct by-product of the sadhana we are doing.

not only self enquiry ,  even japa leads to all this mental confusions. 

so we three atleast are CEOs of Confusion factory.  Any tips to resolve issues at our factory is most welcome . :)  :)