Author Topic: Overcoming destiny  (Read 4228 times)

sanjaya_ganesh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
    • View Profile
Overcoming destiny
« on: October 05, 2013, 06:54:25 AM »
Question: In ‘Karthuragnaya prapyathe phalam’ [‘actions bear fruit by the ordinance of God’, first verse of Upadesa Saram] who is the karta [God, or the supreme doer]?

Bhagavan: Karta is Ishwara. He is the one who distributes the fruits of actions to each person according to his karma. That means He is saguna Brahman [manifest Brahman]. The real Brahman is nirguna [attributeless] and without motion. It is only saguna Brahman that is named as Ishwara. He gives the phala [fruits] to each person according to his karma [actions]. That means that Ishwara is only an agent. He gives wages according to the labour done. That is all. Without that sakti [power] of Ishwara, this karma [action] will not take place. That is why karma is said to be jadam [inert].
(Letters from Sri Ramanasramam, 11th August, 1946)

698. Prarabdha, like a whirlwind, relentlessly agitates and spins the mind that has shrunk through the ‘I am the body’ idea. However, it cannot stir, even slightly, the limitation-free mind that shines as the extremely clear space of being-consciousness when that ego-impurity [the ‘I am the body’ idea] is destroyed by self-enquiry.

300. It is impossible for the jiva who has become a victim of ego-delusion to overcome even slightly the force of prarabdha. Therefore, unless he subsides in the Heart by relying primarily on God’s grace, he can never, by mere effort, which is the activity of the rising ego, overcome the buffeting momentum of that prarabdha, subside by himself [in the Heart], attain Self-realization and be freed from fear-causing delusion.
(Guru Vachaka Kovai)

« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 06:55:56 AM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan

Krishnan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2013, 06:01:20 PM »
Dear all,

I have a question regarding making mistakes in this life. Our true nature, is pure; however, sometimes, we realize sometimes that we have inadvertently made a mistake through our actions and we deeply regret it. However, my question is whether the mistakes that we make now in this life, is due to our past mistakes? Is sincere regret and continuous remembrance of Bhagavan, sufficient to guide you out of this difficulty of having made the mistake and facing its consequences?

Thank you very much for your feedback.

Salutations,
Krishnan

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2013, 06:39:45 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

According to Sri Bhagavan a sincere self inquiry or self surrender will burn up all the demerits that have been caused due
to your mistakes.

Arunachala Siva.

Krishnan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2013, 08:32:22 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Dear Sir,

Many thanks for your reply to my query. To probe a bit more, since perfect self surrender means that there is no 'self' to face the consequences of the actions any more as Bhagavan himself said, I can see how the demerits caused by the mistakes have 'no one' to act on. However, does sincere and heartfelt partial surrender, which comes before the complete surrender, also ensure that one does not suffer from the consequences?

Pranams,
Krishnan

deepa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2013, 09:45:43 PM »
Sri. Krishnan,
Even now, after we do any possible prayaschittam, we need to forgive ourselves too and move on. Otherwise, this is also a hurdle for spiritual progress. Just as we forgive others for their behavior because it is only the behavior of their upadhis, we also have to forgive ourselves since it is also our upadhi doing it. Of course, we do the required prayaschittam and learn our lesson, but then have to move on.

Latha posted this below in another thread.

Once a devotee got angry about something and brought it up with Bhagavan.
M when did this happen?
D yesterday around 9 am.
M The anger is long gone but your mind is keeping it alive by still thinking about it.


Prayers,
Deepa
« Last Edit: November 25, 2013, 09:47:34 PM by deepa »

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43530
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2013, 08:25:44 AM »
Dear Krishnan,

Yes. Partial surrender will also help. 1) It will give partial benefits.  2) It will evolve into full surrender if you keep up
your attitude of surrender without break.

Arunachala Siva.

Krishnan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2013, 12:29:16 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Dear devotees of Bhagavan,

Thank you very much for your answers to the queries and your well wishes.

Pranams,
Krishnan

Beloved Abstract

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
    • View Profile
    • David Ford Art
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2013, 08:22:14 PM »
you only think you made a mistake
this is only a story in the mind
instead of focusing on the story of a mistake ... find the mistake maker
investigate the self to see who it is that thinks they make mistakes
ha ha ha
 :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Krishnan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2013, 08:52:19 PM »
Dear Devotee,

Thank you for your thought provoking message. Sometimes, I wonder if 'we' are 'made to make mistakes' so that 'our' notion of of 'our own ego' as being infallible is destroyed. Since this notion of ourself being the doer is so strong in us, we, who strive to realize the Self, have a notion that 'we' cannot make mistakes. But when 'we' are 'made to make the mistakes', we realize that we are not necessarily the doer, since it was never in our intention to make the mistake in the first place!

I know it sounds a bit confusing, but, perhaps mistakes made by us in our life are a means to make us realize that we are not the 'doer'. That is, I feel, a manifestation of Grace and the commencement of the evaporation of the mist of delusion in our lives.

Pranams to all,
Krishnan

deepa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 08:10:58 AM »
Dear Sri. Krishnan,
That is an interesting notion. But it presumes that one realizes the fallibility of oneself and achieves humility and non-doership in the process. In a majority of the cases, there is no awareness and in fact, people don't stop to think they could have made any mistake.

If you are feeling so, it is definitely grace!

In the case of Parikshit, Nochurji pointed out the huge mistake he made in insulting a rishi who was in tapas, turned out to be a blessing which helped in realization.
Deepa


Krishnan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2013, 02:06:16 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Dear Smt. Deepa,

Thank you for your feedback on the idea regarding making mistakes in life and referring to the story of Parikshit.

Forgiving oneself is very often as tough if not tougher than forgiving others. As Bhagavan himself said, Everything offered to others is really an offering to oneself; and if only this truth were realized, who is there that would refuse anything to others?. Noting the essential non-differentiability amongst the self and others, forgiving oneself is as important as forgiving others. In the process, it lessens also the idea that one is 'different' from others.

Pranams,
Krishnan

Krishnan

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
    • View Profile
Re: Overcoming destiny
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 12:41:17 PM »
Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya
--------------------------------------------

From the book, Divine Grace Through Total Self-Surrender by D. C. Desai, Bhagavan read out the following quotations by Paul Brunton for our benefit:

"Divine Grace is a manifestation of the cosmic free will in operation. It can alter the course of events in a mysterious manner through its own unknown laws, which are superior to all natural laws, and can modify the latter by interaction. It is the most powerful force in the universe.

"It descends and acts only when it is invoked by total self-surrender. It acts from within, because God resides in the Heart of all beings. Its whisper can be heard only in a mind purified by self-surrender and prayer.

"Rationalists laugh at it, and atheists scorn it, but it exists. It is a descent of God into the soul?s zone of awareness. It is a visitation of force unexpected and unpredictable. It is a voice spoken out of cosmic silence - It is ?Cosmic Will which can perform authentic miracles under its own laws?."

- From the book : Gems from Bhagavan by Deva Raja Mudaliar