Author Topic: Why so much negativity in Advaita  (Read 3943 times)

Hari

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Why so much negativity in Advaita
« on: September 04, 2013, 05:03:34 PM »
I read some words of Sri Jnaneshwar and remembered some saying of Sri Ramakrishna, Swami Ramdas. They really teach about non-duality. But they express it in very different way from 'classical' Advaita. For example Ramakrishna teaches that everything is God, that God became all this and so on. But in Advaita it is always about how ignorant we are, that all is illusion, without purpose, God is in our imagination, all visions of God are illusion, siddhis are bad, life is misery because it's transitory, attachment to family is bad, body is bad, mind is bad, you are not thins, you are not that, don't like this, don't love that and so on. Why such negativity? Is this negativity necessary for Self-realization? Isn't rejection of everything the same as acceptance of everything? Some say 'but this is how it is, Advaita tells the truth'. How words can say the truth? "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao".
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Nagaraj

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 05:20:42 PM »
:D the negativity is also ourselves!

In order to see light, there is darkness
In order to see clarity, there is confusion
In order to see positivity, there is negativity

we are wanting to see only in duality, the good and the angel, but it is said that the Self is neither of these! As you have quoated Tao "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao" it is not anything we can speak of.

why we speak? as Jnaneshwar says, the Self, in order to experience itself, becomes an experiencer itself. Like flower became a bee in order to experience it. or like a ear became words in order hear it, or like a tongue became a fruit in order to taste it. became disturbance in order to see its clarity, became negativity in order to see its positivity.

In what all manner we want to experience, so is it manifested.

Just random musing!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 05:22:55 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
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Nagaraj

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 05:32:27 PM »
we create problems in order to experience the pleasure of solving it!

:D
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 05:34:28 PM »
I mean that Advaita is actually something much more than the Shankara's philosophy. Advaita is an experience. We comment these day Shirdi Sai Baba. And only because He didn't teach 'Shankaric' version of Advaita some people consider Him (apparently) as not Self-realized. We even commented about who is Guru. And most people considered Guru only those who express their experience in shankaric words. For example in christianity there so many sincere saints who have experienced God. But only because they didn't express their experience like 'the world is unreal', 'there are no souls' and so on advaitins or people who follow advaita consider them as 'yeah, yeah, good people, good bhaktas but not Self-realized'.
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Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 05:36:30 PM »
we create problems in order to experience the pleasure of solving it!

:D

This is true! ;)
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Nagaraj

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 05:56:47 PM »
Dear Hari,

If we look rather very simply, ultimately it is Shanti or peace that is the bottom-line, what matters if it is advaita or dvaita or anything, what matters if it is experience or a state, what matters if we are performing any sadhana, be it self enquiry or Bhajana or Japa, if one is not peaceful then all sidhanta all knowledge all sadhana is waste.

We do all sorts of Sadhana or seek all sorts of knowledge and engage is various reflections and contemplations for being peaceful.

We may be doing long hours of Japa, Dhayana, we may do non stop Self Enquiry, we may do anything! If it does not bring peace, then it has not given birth to wisdom!

If we are at peace, then that is it, what matters what it is?

Peace is our nature, why corrupt it with big terms such as Advaita, dvaita, non dual, and so on...

Om Shantih, Om  Shantih, Om Shantih
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 05:59:12 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 06:07:00 PM »
Talking about Peace something came in my mind. Now it sounds very 'blasphemous' for me but I will tell it. :)

One morning I while I drank a cup of coffee I felt so much happy. Nothing was in my mind. I didn't care about me, world, Advaita, Ramana, the forum :D, world problems, birth, death, about if I am real or not, about moksha, what is right and what is wrong etc. I just enjoyed my cup of coffee. Suddenly I 'came on earth' :) and told to myself "how evil are you, you didn't care about Ramana, your friends in the forum, about your friends in real life and so on, this happiness was just momentary, do you remember about Ramana's teaching about manolaya and so on". :)
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Nagaraj

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 06:14:36 PM »
Haha  :) the peace u experienced is more authentic than anything else. U are more self connected naturally. Phew here spirituality stinks  :D look at me using words such as self connected... Heavy words...

Peaceful
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 06:16:36 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2013, 06:20:07 PM »
But again the mind started 'talking': "This peace was not from the Self. It was may be due to the caffeine in the coffee. If it was authentic atmic happiness why did you enjoyed a coffee (duality). Why you felt individuality?" and so on. But frankly I didn't care at that time about these. When I do Self-enquiry I feel tensed. Like there is a problem which I must solve. Like I am in a station and so much wait a person to come and he/she does not come (which make me nervous and restless). I don't know. Spirituality is such a mystery.
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2013, 06:23:45 PM »
Dear Hari,

Sri Bhagavan and Sri Sankara earlier, have followed the same path.  Sri Sankara says action cannot give you moksha.
Because action is not against ignorance.  Only Knowledge can remove ignorance.   To attain this Knowledge one should
strive to remove ignorance.  Ignorance comes first in the thought 'I am the body', the concepts of 'I' and 'mine,'  and other
six usually quoted evils like lust, greed, lobha, anger, greed and wanting some body else's property.  All these possessions,
including the thought that the world is real, should go.  Hence Advaitins follow neti, neti, not this, not this approach.  There
is definitely negativity in these. But unless the negatives go the positive cannot be attained. 

Once this positive i.e. Self Knowledge is attained, then all karma's are as per God's will.  The world is real, as a Brahma
swarupam. All the living and non living beings are Brahma Swarupam.  There is nothing other than Brahman in any place.
This experience comes about.  Such a Brahma Jnani is ever in bliss, ever fearless, ever not worried about disease and death,
eternal and ever present.

Jesus also spoke about negatives. He said unless your life is sacrificed,  the other life cannot be attained.  If you cling to your life,
the other life will be hard to come to you.               

Arunachala Siva.

Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2013, 06:46:52 PM »
Action cannot give you moksha? Then why Sri Krishna prescribes the yoga of action as one of the means of liberation?
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Nagaraj

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2013, 06:50:47 PM »
Knowledge itself is action.

Is the state of 'being still' a state involving effort or effortless?

It is not an effortless state of indolence. All mundane activities which are ordinarily called effort are performed with the aid of a portion of the mind and with frequent breaks. But the act of communion with the Self (atma vyavahara) or remaining still inwardly is intense activity which is performed with the entire mind and without break.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2013, 06:51:29 PM »
Dear Hari,

Action without the sense of doership, helps liberation.  That is why Krishna said:  These people have already been killed by
me. You are now only an instrument to kill them now. Do it without any sense of victory or defeat. Sri Krishna also said,
Jnani is very dear to me.

Arunachala Siva. 

Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2013, 07:01:05 PM »
Knowledge itself is action.

Is the state of 'being still' a state involving effort or effortless?

It is not an effortless state of indolence. All mundane activities which are ordinarily called effort are performed with the aid of a portion of the mind and with frequent breaks. But the act of communion with the Self (atma vyavahara) or remaining still inwardly is intense activity which is performed with the entire mind and without break.

Dear Nagaraj,
yes, trying to pay attention is action, effort but as I remember Bhagavan said that this attention becomes effortless. Am I right?
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Hari

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Re: Why so much negativity in Advaita
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2013, 07:03:07 PM »
Dear Hari,

Action without the sense of doership, helps liberation.  That is why Krishna said:  These people have already been killed by
me. You are now only an instrument to kill them now. Do it without any sense of victory or defeat. Sri Krishna also said,
Jnani is very dear to me.

Arunachala Siva.

Yes. Yoga means 'union'. When we combine 'karma' and 'yoga' as Sri Krishna has said then it would mean that karma (action) without desire finally lead to the Supreme Union. Nevertheless can there be complete surrender without karma yoga?
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