Author Topic: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much  (Read 11869 times)

ksksat27

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why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« on: August 08, 2013, 06:52:09 PM »
This question is not very enjoyable for some.

But unless I clear this doubt,  this always carry me everywhere.

In Power of Presence,  Mastan Swami,  David Godman mentions that when M.Swami samadhi was erected at Desur the jains living there wanted to quite the village as they considered a Shaivite saint as so unholy.

The Thirujnana Sambandhar encounter with Jain is well known.

There are lot of other instances which continue to this day when jains really consider Lord Shiva and the sacred ash as if to be most sinful things.

I personally encountered few jains on my way to Arunachala who showed marked hatred towards me seeing my vibhuti.

So without going to the Pandya King punishment episdoe,  I would request learned Shiva devotees here to explain as what could be the reason for so much hatred of jains.

What is their philosophy and why they consider Shiva signs are very unholy?

Jains also eat pure veg and say that they practice non violence.

Considering a non hypocrite sincere Jain, why has he to hate Lord Shiva so much?  This hatred cannot be attributed to the Pandya King punishment episode.  They hated Lord Shiva long before.

Why so?

This is not to be found so vehemently in Buddhist side.  They infact accept many Goddess we worship.  When this being so,  why jains particularly hate Lord Shiva?


Whenever I go to any Shiva temple,  nowadays this thought is really disturbing me.  Better to clear the doubts rather than to keep it.

I would request in depth answers with philosophical positions explained if possible.

I would also want to know in detail the famous Amarakocham Nigandu,  Adhi Shankara episode in detail.

Nagaraj

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Re: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2013, 07:14:06 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

many details are mere politics. Bottomline is

Jains don't hate shiva or gods or other religions or beliefs and vice verse (hindus)

Jain is a baby of Vedic.

Jains are wonderful people, great religion, preaches the same atma jnanam.

Mahavira, was a great soul whose story is greatly inspiring.

there is truly no talk of holy or unholy really.

why this taste for politics? vasana... :)

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2013, 07:15:46 PM »
my response may not have satisfied your query, but merely laid down them.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2013, 07:20:43 PM »
Krishnan,

If i am not wrong, many great tamil scriptures are from Jain monks. Some say Thiruvalluvar was also a jain. there is this wonderful "Naaladiyar" it is a jain work

This Naaladiyar is most excellent work. Perhaps Subramanian Sir or Sri Ravi can bring more light.

Discard the politcs and history happenings, taste the real Rasa essence of Jains.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2013, 07:24:20 PM »
இன்பம் பயந்தாங் கிழிவு தலைவரினும்
இன்பத்தின் பக்கம் இருந்தைக்க – இன்பம்
ஒழியாமை கண்டாலும் ஓங்கருவி நாட!
பழியாகா ஆறே தலை.


Ongaruvi naada! – O owner of the land where there are bountiful rivers!
Inbam payanthu – That which gives pleasure, delight
Aangu izhivu thalaivarinum – and then gives misery
Inbatthin pakkam irunthaikka – You focus on the delight only
Ozhiyamai kandalum – Even if you find something giving nothing but joy
Pazhiyaga Aare – that which will not bring blame to you
thalai – is the right choice.

கல்லாது போகிய நாளும், பெரியவர்கண்
செல்லாது வைகிய வைகலும், – ஓல்வ
கொடாஅ தொழிந்த பகலும், உரைப்பின்
படாஅவாம் பண்புடையார் கண்.


“Days that are spent without learning, not visiting elderly people to pay respect, not giving to those who deserve it, if to be stated, will not be seen among people of good breeding.

(Naaladiyar)

"There's no knowledge without right faith,
No conduct is possible without knowledge,
Without conduct, there's no liberation,
And without liberation, no deliverance."

'Endowed with conduct and discipline,
Who practices control of self,
Who throws out all his bondage,
He attains the eternal place."

All unenlightened persons produce sufferings. Having become deluded,
they produce and reproduce sufferings, in this endless world.

The unenlightened takes millions of lives
to extirpate the effects of karma whereas a man
possessing spiritual knowledge and discipline
obliterates them in a single moment.

Those who are ignorant of the supreme purpose of life will
never be able to attain nirvana (liberation) in spite of their
observance of the vratas (vows) and niymas (rules) of religious conduct
and practice of shila (celibacy) and tapas (penance).

Sow now you can infer if the religion that gives such profound teachings would at any time indulge in some politics?


Mahavira
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 07:31:39 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2013, 09:07:35 PM »
Krishnan,

If i am not wrong, many great tamil scriptures are from Jain monks. Some say Thiruvalluvar was also a jain. there is this wonderful "Naaladiyar" it is a jain work

This Naaladiyar is most excellent work. Perhaps Subramanian Sir or Sri Ravi can bring more light.

Discard the politcs and history happenings, taste the real Rasa essence of Jains.

--

Hi Nagaraj

If it is simple politics and histoy happenings,  things can be easily ignored.

But here there is something fundamentally wrong I could sense.

Jains have misunderstood something same way like the Daruka Forest rishis.  What is that? 

They dont do that for politics only,  they sincerely believe it and torture themselves and do this.  Great is their will power but flawed is their way of approach.  Why and for what they do this?

Infact Nagaraj if you see --  lot of jains take it very personally to this day and behave in a very constrained way.  It is painful for both them and the other side to become so much engrossed only within a nutshell -- so I want to know what is that nutshell?

The Amarakosham author and Adhi Shankara argument was very interesting and long enduring.

These jains where they spend all their labour of pains withotu devotion?  What is their definition of liberation and why they say Gods are not only false but evil?


Hari

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Re: why jains hate Lord Shiva so much
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2013, 09:20:09 PM »
Quote

    Henceforth the Venerable Ascetic Mahavira was houseless, circumspect in his walking, circumspect in his speaking, circumspect in his begging, circumspect in his accepting (anything), in the carrying of his outfit and drinking vessel; circumspect in evacuating excrements, urine, saliva, mucus, and uncleanliness of the body; circumspect in his thoughts, circumspect in his words, circumspect in his acts; guarding his thoughts, guarding his words, guarding his acts, guarding his senses, guarding his chastity; without wrath, without pride, without deceit, without greed; calm, tranquil, composed, liberated, free from temptations, without egoism, without property; he had cut off all earthly ties, and was not stained by any worldliness: as water does not adhere to a copper vessel, or collyrium to mother of pearl (so sins found no place in him); his course was unobstructed like that of Life; like the firmament he wanted no support; like the wind he knew no obstacles; his heart was pure like the water (of rivers or tanks) in autumn; nothing could soil him like the leaf of a lotus; his senses were well protected like those of a tortoise; he was single and alone like the horn of a rhinoceros; he was free like a bird; he was always waking like the fabulous bird Bharundal, valorous like an elephant, strong like a bull, difficult to attack like a lion, steady and firm like Mount Mandara, deep like the ocean, mild like the moon, refulgent like the sun, pure like excellent gold'; like the earth he patiently bore everything; like a well-kindled fire he shone in his splendour.
    —Kalpa Sutra 118
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