Author Topic: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances  (Read 23156 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2013, 10:54:18 AM »
Dear Ravi,

I am not saying that Shirdi Baba was not a great soul etc.,  What I was trying to say was that he looked at God or Allah
as different from his individuality.    He followed the Master-Servant concepts.  Sri Bhagavan never admitted duality in any
thing and He said that there is only one which is non dual and is called Paramatma or Brahman.  For that matter, all great
souls of Sri Vaishnavism like Azwars always approached Narayana as different from their own individualities. Only Nammazhwar
speaks about non duality in his Tiruvoimozhi.

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2013, 10:57:01 AM »
Dear Sir,

Baba never admitted Ego . IN the same sense Bhagavan was the best Dvaiti!

Bhagavan says:

There are only two ways to conquer destiny or to be independent of it. One is to enquire whose this destiny is and discover that only the ego is bound by it and not the Self, and that the ego is non-existent.

The other way is to kill the ego by completely surrendering to the Lord, realizing one's helplessness and saying all the time, 'Not I, but Thou, oh Lord', giving up all sense of 'I' and 'mine' and leaving it to the Lord to do what he likes with you.

There is no Advaita or Dvaita or Visishtadvaiota, these are real illusions!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2013, 11:08:45 AM »
Dear Sir,

another instance:

The arati plate offered to Arunachaleswarar was brought to Bhagavan by Ashram devotees and Sri Bhagavan took a little Vibhuti (holy ashes) and applied it to his forehead, saying in an undertone “Appakku Pillai Adakkam”(The son is beholden to the father). His voice seemed choked with emotion as he spoke. The expression on his face proved the ancient saying “bhakti poornathaya Jnanam” (the culmination of devotion is knowledge).

Dear Sir, your expressions seem to feel lesser to admit Servant feeling towards Master, but why Sir? does the Jnana get corrupt by being a Servant? is this not a sure light on oneself how the subtle ego persists? it does not want to give itself up in the name of Advaita, non duality? is not giving oneself up completely is destruction of ego, be it getting lost in names of dvaita or visishtadvaita, what matters if ego is being dissolved as being servant. doesn't it still segregate things as duality, non duality, qualified quality and so on? is it not still trapped in these affairs and matters theory. Please excuse my reasoning, this is not in any way to question you, but simply reasoning out.



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॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2013, 11:53:51 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Surrender starts with duality and ends up in non duality, since finally one feels 'Only He and no I".   The ego is finally given up.
Whereas the ego is first killed in Atma Vichara and then one experiences that he is the Self, the non dual one.  I am not
belittling duality. What I am saying is that different Brahma Jnanis followed different paths.  One Azhwar says in his vers:
'O Venkateswara, I shall be the step at your sanctum and always see your coral red mouth.'  Padiyai kidanthu nAn pavaLa voi
kANbeno.....'  That Azhwar is also a Brahma Jnani. But he keeps his duality till the end.  He is the Step and Venkateswara has
to seen as he being the Step.

Arunachala Siva.       

Hari

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2013, 03:17:23 PM »
I agree that duality and non-duality are in the mind. All these philosophies are for the mind (ego). If we accept that the world comes from our mind then we must conclude that all philosophies come from our mind. When the mind is not there where is Advaita and where is Dvaita?
Neverthelss I don't reject any philosophy anymore. There is no right and no wrong philosophy for me. My view is more like Sri Ramakrishna's view - everything is just different perspective.
P.S. Sri Subramanian, Sai Baba's view on liberation is not different from Advaita. I have opened a topic about that in the past. If you want you can check it. Sai Baba, Jesus, Ramakrishna are just very little interested in philosophy. All their life was more about love than philosophical discussions.
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Nagaraj

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2013, 04:02:20 PM »


Baba's kafni
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2013, 06:10:28 PM »
Dear Hari,

I am not sure about Dwaita, duality.  But non duality is definitely not in MIND.  It may be so for those who do not  practice
self inquiry.  The self inquiry envisages killing of mind/ego and after killing the mind with long time Sadhana, the Sadhak
attains the Self experience, where the mind is no longer there.  Further as Sri Bhagavan said: Self Realization or Advaita
is not a philosophy but an Experience.'  This experience makes the victorious Sadhak to have bliss of sat chit ananda.

T. K. Sundaresa Iyer, with Bhagavan's approval summed up the Advaitic teachings as this -- He alone is, and everything
else only seems to be but really is NOT.

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2013, 06:32:24 PM »
All are agreed on the annihilation of the ego. Let us get to business
on the agreed point. Nanajivatva (different individualities) are
mentioned by some Advaitins also. All that is immaterial to one’s
spiritual uplift. First realise the Self and then see what lies further.

(Talks)

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2013, 06:43:46 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I agree.

nAnA jiva vadham appears in both in some schools of Adviaita and particularly in Saiva Siddhanta which is essentially a
bhakti marga with individuals and Siva.  Excepting Manikkavachagar no one speaks of merger with Sivam. See Kovil
Tirupadigam in Tiruvachakam.  nAnA jiva vadham cannot  hold a candle before pure advaitaic experience, where there is
only nondual consciousness and nothing else is real.

Arunachala Siva,     

Ravi.N

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2013, 12:24:44 AM »
Subramanian,
Please read that excerpt from 'Day by Day with Bhagavan' and not my add on comments.

Quote
What I was trying to say was that he looked at God or Allah
as different from his individuality.    He followed the Master-Servant concepts. 



It appears to me that you have not read  the Life and Teachings of Baba.Here is an Excerpt from 'Sai Satcharita':

Baba said that He was omnipresent, occupying land, air, country, world, light and heaven, and that He was not limited. To remove the misunderstanding of those, who thought that Baba was only His body - three cubits and a half in length, He incarnated Himself in this form and if any devotee meditated on Him day and night with complete self-surrender, he experienced complete union (without any difference) with Him like sweetness and sugar, waves and sea, eye and its luster. He, who wants to get rid of the cycle of births and deaths, should lead a righteous life, with his mind calm and composed.

He should always engage himself in good actions, should do his duties and surrender himself, heart and soul to Him. He need not then be afraid of anything. He who trusts Him entirely, hears and expounds His Leelas and does not think of anything else, is sure to attain Self-realization. Baba asked many to remember His name and to surrender to Him, but to those, who wanted to know who they were ('Who am I' enquiry), He advised Shravanam (study) and Mananam (meditation). To some, He advised remembering God's name, to others hearing His Leelas, to some worship of His Feet, to others reading and studying Adhyatma Ramayan, Jnaneshwari and other sacred scriptures. Some He made sit near His Feet, some He sent to Khandoba's temple, and some

He advised the repetition of the thousands names of Vishnu and some the study of Chhandogya Upanishad and Geeta. There were no limit, nor restriction to His instructions. To some, He gave them in person. To others by visions in dreams. To one addicted to drink, He appeared in his dream, sat on his chest, pressed it and left him, after he gave a promise not to touch liquor anymore. To some, He explained some Mantras like `Gurur Brahma' in dreams. To some devotee, who was practising Hath-Yoga, He sent word that he should leave off Hath-Yoga practices, sit quiet and wait (Saburi). It is impossible to describe all His ways and methods.

Discussion of Dualism,Nondualism is pointless when it comes to Sri Sai Baba.If we dwell on the wonderful life of this great one,it will be a Great Blessing.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2013, 08:35:17 PM »
Friends,
Arthur Osborne wrote the book -'The incredible Sai Baba'.The Foreword to this book is written by Papa Ramdas:

THE INCREDIBLE SAIBABA- by Arthur Osborne

Foreword by SaiBakta Ramdas:

It is perfectly true, as the author remarks, that Sri SaiBaba, although well - known all over India, is not known out side India, especially in the Western countries. The author wishes to introduce him to the Western world. With this laudable object in view he has written this book which contains Sri Sai Baba's brief life, teachings, miracles and anecdotes. Although Sri Sai Baba's life,as depicted in the book based on authentic report of his devotees, is strange and eccentric, no one who has come in contact with him and his devotees can deny the fact that he was, and Ramdas can say, he is, a saint of the highest spiritual eminence.

Ramdas had the privilege of visiting Shirdi about four years ago for the darshan of Baba's Samadhi. He found that the atmosphere in the Mandir where the Samadhi located was vibrating with spiritual peace and joy. Sai Baba seems to be still living in that holy place. Another wonderful sight that met Ramdas's eyes was that a regular stream of devotees was pouring into the temple for the darshan of Baba's Samadhi through out the day. In Ramdas's wanderings in different parts of India and during his visit to the houses of devotees he also discovered everywhere picture of Sai Baba adorning the walls. His popularity is so vast and wide that his name has become almost a household word among the people of India who hold him in the highest veneration. Sai Baba is a most potent spiritual force that moulds and transforms the life of spiritual aspirants who seek His guidance and blessings even to this day.

The author, Sri Arthur Osborne, has done an invaluable service to the seekers of Truth in the west by presenting this book to the world. He has, in a spirit of love and devotion to Sai Baba, related the most important events in his life, which stand out in bold perspective, conveying to the heart of the reader the pre-eminent glory of Sai Baba. SaiBaba's divine personality seems to have captured the heart of the author and he writes about him with such a spontaneity, giving details of the life and miracles culled from various sources, that he cannot but create in the heart of the reader a wave of admiration and devotion for this great spiritual master.

Ramdas earnestly wishes that this book should be in the hands of every spiritual aspirant and, for the matter of that, everyone, whether he is a believer or non-believer, so that he can know how God reveals Himself in the form of a unique and fully inspired saint of Sai Baba's stature. Sai Baba's sayings are quite original in their import and expression. The last quotation from Baba's sayings, as mentioned in this book, has charmed Ramdas and he will end this short foreword by giving it here: "I give people what they want in the hope that they will begin to want I want to give them".

(sd) Saibakt- Ramdas.

Anandashram, Kanhangad.

Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2013, 09:13:11 PM »

Discussion of Dualism,Nondualism is pointless when it comes to Sri Sai Baba.If we dwell on the wonderful life of this great one,it will be a Great Blessing.


Very well said, Sri Ravi. For Avatars like Jesus and Sai Baba such philosophical discussion have never been raised. The only important thing in Their lives was the Heavenly Father and how to bring His children to Him.
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ksksat27

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2013, 10:20:28 PM »
Subramanian,
Please read that excerpt from 'Day by Day with Bhagavan' and not my add on comments.

Quote
What I was trying to say was that he looked at God or Allah
as different from his individuality.    He followed the Master-Servant concepts. 



It appears to me that you have not read  the Life and Teachings of Baba.Here is an Excerpt from 'Sai Satcharita':

Baba said that He was omnipresent, occupying land, air, country, world, light and heaven, and that He was not limited. To remove the misunderstanding of those, who thought that Baba was only His body - three cubits and a half in length, He incarnated Himself in this form and if any devotee meditated on Him day and night with complete self-surrender, he experienced complete union (without any difference) with Him like sweetness and sugar, waves and sea, eye and its luster. He, who wants to get rid of the cycle of births and deaths, should lead a righteous life, with his mind calm and composed.

He should always engage himself in good actions, should do his duties and surrender himself, heart and soul to Him. He need not then be afraid of anything. He who trusts Him entirely, hears and expounds His Leelas and does not think of anything else, is sure to attain Self-realization. Baba asked many to remember His name and to surrender to Him, but to those, who wanted to know who they were ('Who am I' enquiry), He advised Shravanam (study) and Mananam (meditation). To some, He advised remembering God's name, to others hearing His Leelas, to some worship of His Feet, to others reading and studying Adhyatma Ramayan, Jnaneshwari and other sacred scriptures. Some He made sit near His Feet, some He sent to Khandoba's temple, and some

He advised the repetition of the thousands names of Vishnu and some the study of Chhandogya Upanishad and Geeta. There were no limit, nor restriction to His instructions. To some, He gave them in person. To others by visions in dreams. To one addicted to drink, He appeared in his dream, sat on his chest, pressed it and left him, after he gave a promise not to touch liquor anymore. To some, He explained some Mantras like `Gurur Brahma' in dreams. To some devotee, who was practising Hath-Yoga, He sent word that he should leave off Hath-Yoga practices, sit quiet and wait (Saburi). It is impossible to describe all His ways and methods.

Discussion of Dualism,Nondualism is pointless when it comes to Sri Sai Baba.If we dwell on the wonderful life of this great one,it will be a Great Blessing.

Namaskar.

Dear Ravi Sir,

What I have observed both on Thakur and Shirdi Sai Baba is --  they seemed to met lot of people with different mind inclinations to such a degreet that there is no central core message they delivered.

I mean,  to one person they will adore Krishna bhava and pure duality and next person they will talk about Neti Neti. 


In Maharishee Ramana's school,  he also met many people and spoke at length on many devotion and other dualistic topics but the central theme of Self ,  Atma , Jnana ,  Brahmam etc. were always emphasized by Maharishee Ramana.  I would say Bhagavan Ramana though he also came down to the level of the questioner,  Bhagavan was very careful in not coming down beyond a point and time and again stressing the ultimate unreality of the world.  That mode of expression is not to be always found with Shirdi Baba and Thakur. Both of them gave a free ride themselves into the ocean of devotion ,  sometimes they were so carried away in that bhakthi current that they indeed made statements of clean duality like soul-God relationship.

I have read few extracts Gospel after I bought that book on your advise.    It amazingly carries a free flow of various sentiments. 

I think all these three Gurus saw a distance future to see who will come to them and they lived their lives and delivered messages in accordance with that spirit.

That is the unique style of every Guru.    I will later create a separate topic on how each Guru has his own style of dealing with our minds.

Ravi.N

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2013, 10:41:55 PM »
Ksksat(Krishna):
I am happy to note that you have read a few extracts from The Gospel Of Sri Ramakrishna.I will respond to your post here in the Rough-notebook thread.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Shirdi Sai Baba Teachings & Assurances
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2013, 11:08:13 AM »


   




“Once, when I sat at His Feet along with many others, I had two questions in my mind and He gave answers to both.
  • There are so many crowding to Sai Baba. Do they all get benefit from Him? To this, He replied orally, “Look at the mango tree in blossom. If all the flowers become fruit, what a splendid crop it would be. But do they? Most fall off (either as flowers or as unripe fruits) by wind etc. very few remain.”
  • The second question was about myself. If Baba were to pass away, how hopelessly adrift I would be and how am I to fare then? To this, Baba answered that, He would be with me, whenever and wherever I thought of Him.
Damu Anna
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 11:10:43 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta