Author Topic: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?  (Read 3225 times)

Anand

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What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« on: August 03, 2013, 09:04:13 AM »
Dear friends,
This is a slight variant of a topic that I had put up earlier  but my query is more pointed and more specific.
Many or all in this forum have taken to BHagavan and his teachings and may have been practising to various degrees as per their understanding and spiritual maturity.
As per the spiritual definition of Guru, Guru is a manifestation of the supreme self who appears to us in physical form at a certain ripe time of our spirital journey.
Now all of us here may or may not have seen Bhagavan in an earlier lifetime.
In the first case we know for sure that Bhagavan will be with us going by the writings of Bhagavan's disciples who knew him in his lifetime and since if in an earlier life we have seen him ,and we remember him prominently now, we are already having a Guru Sisya relationship with him.
In the second case where does Bhagavan stand in our spiritual journey ?Though Bhagavan had said many times that he is more than the body.But going by the earlier definition of Guru ,is Bhagavan only a guide in our spiritual journey and we still have to wait for a Guru or hope to be emancipated ( a rare occurence as Bhagavan himself said) on our own without a physical Guru like Bhagavan.
Having known Bhagavn and his philosophy one would like to somehow hold onto his feet (metaphysically ) and hope that he becomes our Guru since he and his teachings  is our best hope for our spiritual journey .But how we do reach him now that he merged in the supreme and somehow make him our Guru ?
Thanks,Anand Sundaram.
Sundaram Anand

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2013, 09:44:07 AM »
Dear Anand Sundaram,

Sri Bhagavan is like an elephant.  It is light eight blind men touching the elephant in some parts and trying to describe it.
No one can understand fully Sri Bhagavan unless he himself becomes a Jnani.

As for me, He is my Mother, He is my Father, He is my Guru and He is my God.  I only pray to him to give that amount of
health to continue to contemplate on Him and I also pray to Him only for moksha.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2013, 10:49:09 AM »
Anand sundaram,
All relationships are fragile and wane and disappear over a period of time.Some Relationships are on account of birth-we are born to our parents;this establishes a bond with them and others who happen to be our brothers or sisters.Some relationships we enter into-as Husband and wife,and when children are born we lovingly bring them up.We also develop relationship with some as friends and develop a bonding as we cherish something in common or see something that we mutually value in each other.We also develop relationships on account of physical proximity-like we travel in the train and make some acquaintance,sometimes even exchange our addresses or visiting cards!Rarely do we pursue it further.Sometimes we go to live in another part of the country due to compulsions of the profession we are in-and we establish our relationship with our neighbours and office colleagues.
We know that all these relationships keep changing all the time and unless fostered and attended to,wane and even pass off from our memory without a trace.

Is there any Relationship that is intrinsic to us that always survives the ravages of time and Death?The Great ones have affirmed with an emphatic 'Yes'.This is what is called as God,Self or The Guru.
Familiar as we are with other relationships,we tend to approach 'Guru' with the same mindset.All your 'questions' and 'ideas' that you have expressed are tinged with this paradigm through and through-It emphasises the Physical and Mental-and on account of this brings in the time factor-and presupposes a so called link in the previous incarnation or life-where one was in close physical proximity with 'Bhagavan'(the person!) and hopes to continue this relationship forever!
This mindset is the root of all confusion-and this is what leads to the confusion.
The Guru is Eternal and is part and parcel of ourself-our Deepest and only Truth-and it is only when this recognition dawns,we can at all speak about relationship with The Guru at all!
Having a Guru(a Physical one!) is not an enrollment,nor is it an entitlement nor a Franchise.It cannot be elected or chosen.It is not something that can be brought about by any external means.
On account of Sadhana ,The Grace manifests as The Guru and enables the 'Recognition' as an unfailing confirmation that The Guru is who he is-Our own Self.The Nature of this is Peace and Love and one finds this embodied in The 'Physical Guru' (so to say).
The True Disciple is quite confident in this knowledge that He who he acknowledges as His Guru, is in Reality his Own for ever and Ever-His own Self (Satchitananda) or God.He does not need Physical Proximity as a crutch to foist and bolster his Love and Reverence.He carries the Guru in his Heart.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 11:00:23 AM »
"Do all your duties, but keep your mind on God. Live with all - with wife and children, father and mother - and serve them. Treat them as if they were very dear to you,
but know in your heart of hearts that they do not belong to you.
"A maidservant in the house of a rich man performs all the household duties, but her thoughts are fixed on her own home in her native village. She brings up her Master's
children as if they were her own. She even speaks of them as 'my Rama' or 'my Hari'. But in her own mind she knows very well that they do not belong to her at all".

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

ksksat27

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 09:04:31 AM »
Dear friends,
This is a slight variant of a topic that I had put up earlier  but my query is more pointed and more specific.
Many or all in this forum have taken to BHagavan and his teachings and may have been practising to various degrees as per their understanding and spiritual maturity.
As per the spiritual definition of Guru, Guru is a manifestation of the supreme self who appears to us in physical form at a certain ripe time of our spirital journey.
Now all of us here may or may not have seen Bhagavan in an earlier lifetime.
In the first case we know for sure that Bhagavan will be with us going by the writings of Bhagavan's disciples who knew him in his lifetime and since if in an earlier life we have seen him ,and we remember him prominently now, we are already having a Guru Sisya relationship with him.
In the second case where does Bhagavan stand in our spiritual journey ?Though Bhagavan had said many times that he is more than the body.But going by the earlier definition of Guru ,is Bhagavan only a guide in our spiritual journey and we still have to wait for a Guru or hope to be emancipated ( a rare occurence as Bhagavan himself said) on our own without a physical Guru like Bhagavan.
Having known Bhagavn and his philosophy one would like to somehow hold onto his feet (metaphysically ) and hope that he becomes our Guru since he and his teachings  is our best hope for our spiritual journey .But how we do reach him now that he merged in the supreme and somehow make him our Guru ?
Thanks,Anand Sundaram.

Dear Anand,

My opinion

references to sayings from (from No Mind I am the Self,  Seshadri Swami tamil biography publication by Seshadri Swamigal Ashram.)


Bhagavan has no doubt merged in the Turiyathitha state the same state where Sanatkumaras, Dakshinamurthy,  Suka deva and other great brahma jnanis like Sage Dattareya reside.

However we have to only take initiative and choose Bhagavan as our Guru and for now proceed sincerely with self enquiry or nama japa (surrender). 

For now we can safely put the final stages of sadhana out of question because we have not reached that stage.

The final stages of sadhana will have some symptoms --  this has happened to many including Nisarghadatta Maharaj, Lakshmana swamy Papaji, Swami Ramagiri of Sweden,  Papa ramadas and many others.

One will get many divine visions or of the ten incarnation visions. 
Or one will start going into deep samadhis temporarily giving a direct experience of Self.
Or the world and the seer, seen and seeing will give a direct experience of Oneness.

Sri Lakshamana Swamy says that one can go upto this stage on his own (means with our own personal God or chosen Guru whom we did not see in our lifetime.) . 
Sri Lakshamana calls this stage as effortless thought free state but with the "ego I" still remaining.

After this state,  it is no longer in our hands,  most probably we need a living Guru by that time to finisht the remaining vasanas and gain ultimate liberation.
That final person --  that living Guru will obviously be different from the form of Ramana Maharshi but he is the same Self only. This final moments of liberation cannot be predicted because it can happen anytime beyond time and space.
Sri Lakshmana Swamy further says that in these advanced stages of a disciple,  sometimes the Guru himself will come to them to impart knowledge.  This really happened to Mahan Sri Seshadri Swamigal.  He was already very ripe and suddenly,  his Guru appeared from Kashi and imparted the
great words of console "Maashusha, Maashusha,  Aasusha , Aasusha"  -- "dont worry dont worry"

Immediately Seshadri Swamigal attained the permanent liberation state and started doing namaskaram to his appeared Guru praising with some hyms.   

Or we may die before this and go to some satya lokha or tapo lokha to finish remaining sadhana (Sri Annamalai Swami Final Talks says that to go to higher worlds like this no wordly desire must be left).  From there,  we may get knowledge and attain final nirvana by any competent Guru in that Lokha.

Now personally I accept this position:

Our final moments of liberation though beyond time and space is fixed already which is the secret of all secrets.  And whom has to liberate us and how is also already decided as the secret of secrets.
No matter what,  we will meet the destined living Guru the rose that has blossomed and reserved for us specially.  No one is denied of his unique share of this gift the rose flower,  the living Guru who will liberate us.
Think this way,  what gave the rights to Echhamal or Papa Ramadas or Papaji or Mudaliar Patti to sit before Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi?  Obviously their previous live vigourous sadhana and their dedication to their own past life Gurus.

Had they not regarded their past life Guru as all in all,  they would not have earned enough merits to sit before Bhagavan Ramana.

Similarly we also must start our intense devotion and practice of Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi's teachings regarding him as our Guru ,  the Dakshmamurthy Swarupa. 

And this will definitely earn us the mountain of merits and elevated state so that in the next batch of serving feast,  we will be called in first row by Ishwara.  And we will also meet someone like Bhagavan Ramana in whatever earthly or non earthly plane and we will get liberated in a split of a micro second. 

That is the key.

Or if you feel very much liking to get jnana only from Bhagavan Ramana,  there is still a way.

These four yuga cycles repeat lot of times in different Brahma's regime.  And in another kali yuga,  there will be a Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi personality again whereby we will have the chance to directly see him.  Because the pastimes of Bhagavan Ramana are eternal,  it is not fragmentary.

To whichever appeals to your mind mostly,  stick to that and it will happen the same way (because it is the same Consciousness which revealts itself in you)


Nagaraj

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 04:35:00 PM »
What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?

பித்து (pittu)

Intoxication,
Madness!!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 05:51:33 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Once Sri Ramana said to one vakil who had come to inquire into the Asramam, against which one Ranganayaki Amma had filed
a suit!  Sri Ramanasramam has seen many cases and suits. 

Sri Bhagavan asked the vakil to take food with Him during lunch.  He said: Those who come here as 1/4 mad becomes 1/2/
mad. Those who come here as 1/2 mad becomes full mad.  Because I am 100% mad sitting here.


Arunachala Siva. 

Nagaraj

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 05:59:05 PM »
Really True Sir!! Arunachala's reputation is such!!! what could be spoken on him. For Worldly people, He is a bad satsangam to have! :)

மொட்டை யடித்தெனை வெட்ட வெளியினி
Nட்டமா டினையென் னருணாசலா

How wonderful it is that you have shaved my head clean,
O Arunachala, and are now dancing a joyous dance in the
heart's vast empty space?

Arunachala who is merely standing like a inert stone, with radiating heat; his job is kabalanam, swallowing. Kabalita ghana Vishwaroopa Kiranaavalya, Whose spreading rays engulf all things

சகலமும் விழுங்கும் கதிரொளி இனமன
சலசம் அலர்த்திடு அருணாசலா

Sun whose bright rays envelop (Swallows*) the whole world,
O Arunchala, make my heart-lotus blossom

Swallowing seems more appropriate to me than evelop as used in translation.

He is a GREAT GOBBLER

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 06:07:55 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice couplets from Sri Arunachala Akshara Mana Maalai.  Motti adithenai, here means removing all my vasanas.

When all the vasanas are gone and along with mind and ego, what is there excepting Pure Awarnesss?

Then "Arunachala the Pure Awareness dances with Sri Ramana who is Pure Awareness dances in the all pervading Space!


(From Muruganar's Aksharamana Malai viruthi urai.)

Arunachala Siva.   

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Re: What is Bhagavan RAmana to us?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 08:50:01 PM »
Ramana is myself
 :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it