Author Topic: Excommunicated from the Christian church - Now what? Coming to Ramana only?  (Read 2383 times)

Kicsi108

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Namaste,

I have written some posts in this board in connection with Ramana's teaching and that of Christianity. Whether they can be followed at the same time or they contradict each other, etc.

I have been excommunicated from the Christian church recently because I said no to throwing away Ramana's book, pictures of Him and Arunachala and denying Him as a person worthy of being a devotee of him. I also have a Shiva murti in my house and that was also a 'stumbling block' for members of the church.

I have been a member of this church for years on and off.
But recently I have been excommunicated as long as I don't turn away from Ramana.

I love Ramana and I also love the members of the church.
Now it seems that I need to make a choice between Jesus/Church and Ramana.

I love Ramana and I am said to deny Jesus by that, etc.
I am surrounded by either Christian or unreligious/atheist people but no other devotees of Ramana.

What shall I do?

Thank you for your kind and helpful answers as well as your patience with me.

Arunachala,

Graham

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Dear Kicsi,

In my youth I turned my back on the 'Church' when I discovered that the clergy and teachers of Christianity did not even understand what they were so vehemently preaching.

There is a profound difference between faith and religion. Religion fears the acquisition of knowledge and truth, whereas faith accepts all that nurtures and strengthens it.

Religions have a place; they are the kindergarten and junior school of faith, but when they are forced down your throat they cease to be about faith and become more about power and control.

Did my faith in Christ fall away when I turned my back on the Church? The answer is no, it matured and became stronger, especially when I began to see it in the light of advaita.

Those who worship words and books think that God cannot rule His creation without 'them'.

Do not all religions say that God is the primary cause of all, that there was nothing before Him and that everything arises from the one source - therefore everything IS God.

They ignore the fact that all creation and the intelligence permeating it is God, because when you accept that, really accept it, you understand that God does not need 'you' to rule the universe on His behalf, He is quite capable of doing it - and IS doing it.

Kicsi, follow your heart that is the only advice that is worthwhile.

Graham

latha

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Dear kicsiji,

Grahamji has given a wonderful answer. I just wanted to share something I read a few minutes ago, in the book Power of the Presence by Sri David Godman. It is on page 103.
Somebody asked Bhagavan, "We have all met at your feet. Was it our good luck or is there a link between us from our previous births?"
Bhagavan replied "Were it not for the old links, how could you all have come here?"
The book goes on to say... Those who loved him in previous births come to him again in this. However far they are born, Bhagavan would pull them to himself.

To me Bhagavan is God, Guru and Self. As Grahamji said, follow your heart.

You mentioned that there are no Ramana devotees near you.This forum is a big blessing of Bhagavan, please consider yourself surrounded by his devotees here.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Ravi.N

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Kicsi,

"If God is for us, who can be against us?" Romans 8:28-31.

Please refer to this Good article on the above saying in the Biible:
http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-romans-8-28-31.htm

Friend,I wish to refer this fine talk given by Ralph Waldo Emerson before he laid down his robes and quit the church.
 
"Historical Christianity has fallen into the error that corrupts all attempts to communicate religion. As it appears to us, and as it has appeared for ages, it is not the doctrine of the soul, but an exaggeration of the personal, the positive, the ritual. It has dwelt, it dwells, with noxious exaggeration about the person of Jesus. The soul knows no persons. It invites every man to expand to the full circle of the universe, and will have no preferences but those of spontaneous love. But by this Eastern monarchy of a Christianity, which indolence and fear have built, the friend of man is made the injurer of man. The manner in which his name is surrounded with expressions, which were once sallies of admiration and love, but are now petrified into official titles, kills all generous sympathy and liking. All who hear me, feel that the language that describes Christ to Europe and America is not the style of friendship and enthusiasm to a good and noble heart, but is appropriated and formal,—paints a demigod, as the Orientals or the Greeks would describe Osiris or Apollo. Accept the injurious impositions of our early catechetical instruction, and even honesty and self denial were but splendid sins if they did not wear the Christian name. One would rather be

“A pagan, suckled in a creed outworn,”

than to be defrauded of his manly right in coming into nature, and finding not names and places, not land and professions, but even virtue and truth, foreclosed and monopolized
. You shall not be a man even. You shall not own the world; you shall not dare, and live after the infinite Law that is in you, and in company with the infinite Beauty which heaven and earth reflect to you in all lovely forms; but you must subordinate your nature to Christ’s nature, you must accept our interpretations, and take his portrait as the vulgar draw it.

That is always best which gives me to myself. The sublime is excited in me by the great stoical doctrine, Obey thyself. That which shows God in me, fortifies me. That which shows God out of me, makes me a wart and a wen. There is no longer a necessary reason for my being. Already the long shadows of untimely oblivion creep over me, and I shall decease forever.

I warmly recommend this wonderful talk by this bold thinker and earnest soul.You may read this here:
http://www.bartleby.com/5/102.html

Friend,Ramana is the immortal and eternal Truth within us;to deny it is to deny our existence.Sri Bhagavan embodied this principle and lived it in recent times as did Lord Jesus the Christ in those times.This gives us the Faith and Strength to walk the path and reclaim this Truth for ourselves.There is absolutely no contradiction between being a True christian and the way shown by Sri Bhagavan Ramana.

I truly appreciate the way you are facing this sort of development."If God is for us, who can be against us?"

Wishing you the very Best.

Namaskar.

Hari

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Dear Kicsi, I am so sorry to read that. Unfortunately this is the attitude of the most christians. You don't need to go to the church to follow Lord Jesus. Everyone can serve Him everywhere. you must not be angry or to be disappointed from your church members. This is the way they have been taught and they are afraid when they face situation like yours. Christianity is not a sectarian religion. We have made it that way. Christianity is about how to reach the realm of our Heavenly Father. It is not about Jews, Gentiles, Europeans or Indians, Muslims, Hindus or Christians. It is about every living creature in the universe (and I believe that we are not alone in the universe). Christianity is about Love, Respect, Tolerance, Patience, God-realization. You should try to find some more tolerant and friendly church which is in alignment with the true Christ Spirit. Don't let them judge you. As the Lord has said: "Do not judge". Only God can judge if He wants to. Glory to Lord Jesus! I wish you good luck!
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Jewell

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Dear kisci,

I am so sorry to hear about this. All members gave You excellent replies.

I even didnt know that they can do that. You maybe arent their member anymore,but You can still visit any other Church,and even appart from that,Jesus is in Your heart,and no body can steal it from there.

I just cannot understand that this things still happen. Like we are in time of inquisition. God forbits! People stupidity can go so far ... My thinking that this is really a blessing for You. We dont need such rigid and narow minded people teach us what faith is. What can they possible teach us,except this very lesson they are giving to You,that religion and faith are two different things,like Sri Graham has said.
You can still be friends with them,sure,if You are for the long time in that Church,but then,Your feeling toward faith and God You can keep just for Yourself.
Dont worry about that much,and cherish that love you have toward Bhagavan and Jesus. Jesus is not property of any church or institution,and He will never be. Let all settle,then You will know what to do. And what ever You do is not important,coz that wont change the way You feel about Jesus or Bhagavan

Wish You All the Best!

With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 07:30:30 PM by Jewell »

Kicsi108

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Dear All,
Namaste,

Thank you so much for your answers. They are very helpful.
I have left the church and since then I have been reading books by Ramana.
When I read his books, I become more peaceful than before for example. Furthermore, there is no outside "motivation" to do it but it comes rather from inside.

On the other hand, I was blessed to visit Arunachala and Ramana's Asramam a few years back.
I think it is also a "sign" that I need to do something about this connecting to Ramana.

When I was a child one of my dreams was to get to India one day. Of course, at that time I didn't know anything about Ramana. And many a people around me only smiled at me and made fun of me hearing my "dream" later becoming a goal. But finally I was really blessed to see  Arunachala in live and stay some days at Ramana's Asramam.

I don't have any idea if  I can get back ever but I think having gone there once was not by mere chance.

Thank you for your helpful answers and that I can be a part of this community here. :)

Arunachala Ramana
 

Nagaraj

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Dear Kicsi,

experiences such as yours are really inspiring!

real journey is within, the initial outward journey is merely to push us to the path within.

The kingdom of heaven is within us, as so is said.

:)

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta