Author Topic: Jivan mukta and his actions  (Read 1857 times)

silence

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Jivan mukta and his actions
« on: March 20, 2013, 11:13:56 PM »
This is a somewhat speculative question. Let's say a person, call him X, is a jivan mukta and this is his last birth. Does that necessarily mean he would act in a certain way - being a sanyasin or renouncing the world, desires etc. Or could such a person also behave like an ordinary worldly person entangled in material concerns, having desires, lust etc.?

My question is: can the two coexist - a person who is practically indistinguishable from a worldly person yet a jivan mukta? The reason I am asking is I read something like this in Aurobindo's talks where he told some disciples that an enlightened or soon-to-be-liberated soul may be subject to error just like any worldly soul, yet his liberation is sure because unlike the worldly person he has wisdom. Others, in contrast to Aurobindo, argue that if that is the case then why would such a wise soul behave like a worldly person with desires, lust etc.?

Subramanian.R

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Re: Jivan mukta and his actions
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 10:47:04 AM »

Dear silence,

The hall marks of a Jivan Mukta have been elaborated by Sri Sankara in Verses 425 to 444 in Vivekachudamani.

1.  In the consciousness of Brahman, staying there forever, free from external desires, enjoying the blessedness UNKNOWN by
others, (as in sleeping), seeing this world as in his dream, and yet full in established understanding, -- surely he is the enjoyer
of endless merits.  He is blessed indeed. He is to be followed in this world.

2. Only he whose understanding is established, enjoys because he is always merged in Brahman, which is changeless and
actionless.

3. What is 'established in understanding'?  The Self in Brahman -- that  purified consciousness of the Self, always uniform -
is what is called 'established in understanding'. And when this understanding is CONSTANT IN ONE, he is called 'One of
established in understanding.'

4. He is of such established understanding who feels the blessed state ALWAYS, and has almost forgotten duality.  He is
called a Jivan Mukta - free even while in this world.

5. He whose intellect is merged in Brahman, who though wakeful, is yet free from the effects of wakefulness and whose knowledge
is free from desire -- he is called a Jivan Mukta, free even while in this world.

6. The noise of the world is pacified in him. Though with part, yet is he without part. Whose heart is without anxiety. It receives
no impression. He is called a Jivan Mukta.

7.  He who follows the body as one follows a shadow, and yet with no idea of 'me' or 'mine' in this body -- he is called a Jivan
Mukta.

8.  He who does not inquire about things past, does not take thought for the future, and in the present remains indifferent  and
unattached - that is the sign of a Jivan Mukta.

9. In this nature, that is composed of good and evil, one who sees the sameness everywhere -- he is a Jivan Mukta.

10.  He who remains unchanged in pleasure or pain - that is the sign of a Jivan Mukta.

11. He whose heart is ever filled with the blissfulness of Brahman, regardless of internal and external things -- that is a sign
of a Jivan Mukta.

12.  In body and in senses, free from the idea of 'me' and 'mine', who remains here as the Witness only -- this is the sign of
a Jivan Mukta.

13. He who has known his own Self  by the power of the scriptures, who has become free from the bondage of the world, -
he is a Jivan Mukta.

14. He who does not feel his identification with the body or senses or with any objects of the world -- he is a Jivan Mukta.

15. He who knows no difference between the world and Brahman in his real consciousness - he is a Jivan Mukta.

16. Being worshipped by the good or ill treated by the wicked, who remains the same always -- he is a Jivan Mukta.

17. He in whom the enjoyments enter like rivers into the ocean, yet cannot disturb it, - he is Jivan Mukta.

18. He who has known the reality of Brahman cannot be like one of the world, and he cannot do things as before.  If he does,
he has not known the Reality, and he is deluded.

19.  He cannot engage again in his old habits, because he sees the oneness for all time. His desires cannot be felt.

20.  Even a very lustful man feels no desire when he is in the presence of his mother. In the same manner a man is freed from
worldliness if he has realized Brahman, and only immersed in the infinite Bliss.

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Arunachala Siva.                           

ksksat27

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Re: Jivan mukta and his actions
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 11:11:04 AM »
This is a somewhat speculative question. Let's say a person, call him X, is a jivan mukta and this is his last birth. Does that necessarily mean he would act in a certain way - being a sanyasin or renouncing the world, desires etc. Or could such a person also behave like an ordinary worldly person entangled in material concerns, having desires, lust etc.?

My question is: can the two coexist - a person who is practically indistinguishable from a worldly person yet a jivan mukta? The reason I am asking is I read something like this in Aurobindo's talks where he told some disciples that an enlightened or soon-to-be-liberated soul may be subject to error just like any worldly soul, yet his liberation is sure because unlike the worldly person he has wisdom. Others, in contrast to Aurobindo, argue that if that is the case then why would such a wise soul behave like a worldly person with desires, lust etc.?

Silence

I got your question --  a jivan muktha can act like anybody in the world.  but inwardly he will surely not have desires, lust, fear etc.

but outwards,  he may act in any manner --  but 99% of t he cases,  they act only with wisdom and non violence. 


Saradamma has told this very clearly --     there will be no traces of desire or fear or attachment in That state.

She further explained that She has no rigid memories that bind Her.

For example , if a jivan muktha sees you,  only for that moment,  your image is recorded in his consiousness.  the very next moment, he does not carry your memory
or any liking or disliking towards you.

So by all means jivan muktha cannot have any lust or worldy desries.

but outwardly he can act like one having lust.  but 99% they will not act that way. 

But they may drive people away when they visit such  a jnani.  They may shout and drive away but lust and desire they will surely will not be having.

there is one story where this 1% very rare exception.
I forgot both the Guru and the disciple name.

But this Guru used to visit a prostitue but one day while everybody criticized him,  he provied his abidance in Self.