Author Topic: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa  (Read 77604 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2008, 06:51:08 PM »
Dear non duel (and others),   I saw your various posts.  First thing
first.  It is Annamalai Swami's talks and not Bhagavan's talks
to Annamalai Swami.  Secondly, when I said, "What next?", I
was referring to Raju's post, (which was indicated as yours by
mistake), where he had said  to the effect that "we may be
requiring the glasses sometimes...."

In the merger with the Self, there is nothing, no universe and
all that crap.  I want to quote of a portion of a poem by Saint
Manikkavachagar.  It comes in Tiruppadai-Atchi in Tiruvachakam,
a decad on Holy Rule of Siva, after his merger with Siva, Brahman.

" Will I be fondling the well formed breasts of nicely ornamented
women?"

This is shocking!  Particuarly after becoming Siva.  There are two
answers for this question.  According to G.U. Pope's translation:

Yes and No.

Yes, because after becoming Siva, there is nothing other than me.
The well formed breasts, the breasts that look like champagne glasses,
of nicely oranmented women, are not other than me!  If, I, as
Siva, touch my earlobes, am I touching anything else?   
 
No. Becuase there is no one other than me.  Where is the question
of women, their ornaments, their well formed breasts that look
like champagne glasses?

"Will be I praying to Siva and his holy ashes?"

Again, yes and no.

Yes, since there is no one other than me, Siva, I shall be touching
my forehead, and the holy ashes!

No, because there is no one to pray or touch, it is the touch
of the untouch, the one hand clapping of Zen masters!

Arunachala Siva. 

   

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2008, 07:07:22 PM »
Dear subramanian,
                        Bhagawan got realisation after death experience.Probably he never heard the word Brahman but attained to the state of Brahman.
Later after coming to Tiruvannamalai Palani Swami used to bring books from the library to clear his doubts through Bhagawan.Bhagawan started
reading these books and he is surprised to see the description of thing of what he has experienced.By that time Bhagawan is a realised master but has to use thought(glasses)to read the books and clarify the doubts of Palani Swami.This is what i mean when i say that sometimes we need glasses
even after realisation.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2008, 07:11:53 PM »
Dear Raju,  Yes, That way one may need glasses, that is the
Suddha Manas, Pure Mind, to read, write, clarify.  All the
actions and thoughts of Bhagavan Ramana in Tiruvanamalai,
for 54 years, sprang forth the Suddha Manas.

Arunachala Siva. 

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #48 on: September 08, 2008, 05:39:06 PM »
Dear All,

I would like to add one thing to this discussion. I do not want to leave the impression that no "effort" is needed. Keeping the mind one-pointedness on the self, requires an effort, as everyone here knows. Once the "I-thought" is disolved in the Self, then no effort is necessary.

The discussion on "difficult" is to nonduel, to destroy such thoughts as soon as they come, because they are from the ego and only the ego can do, work, try...
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #49 on: September 08, 2008, 11:12:57 PM »
Dear all,
          Buddha said if you come across your Guru while meditating-kill him(mentally).Sri Ramakrishna used to have visions of kali and used to
communicate with her for so many years.Once Totapuri,a realised master with advaita vasana asked Ramakrishna to meditate on thid eye
and Totapuri pierced skin of Ramakrishna over third eye with a glass piece and asked Ramakrishna to go ahead with meditation.
Immedietly Kali appeared before Ramakrishna and he reported the same to Totapuri.Totapuri told Ramakrishna to cut Kali into two pieces if she appears.
Ramakrishna innocently asked how using sword is possible during meditation.Totapuri told Ramakrishna that kali is nothing but your mental
projection arose out of devotion and you create a sword with your mental power and kill kali with it.Ramakrishna did it and he immediately went into deep samadhi and enjoyed the bliss for 21 days continuously without any distraction.So are visions our own mental projections only? though they
help us spiritually.

Dear DRPVSSNRAJU,
   There is a brief discussion about Divine forms. There Sri Ramakrishna says that Divine forms are not mental projections but are projected by Brahman on the person's mental plane.

 Regards

Gangajal

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2008, 11:29:02 PM »
Dear Silence,
     There is a difference between Shankaracharya and Sri Ramakrishna on whether only jnana can lead to moksha. I have given below two quotes from Ramakrishna Kathamrita that will tell you his position.

Bhaktiyoga is the religion for this age. But that does not mean that the lover
of God will reach one goal and the philosopher (Jnani) and worker (Karmayogi)
another. It means that if a person seeks the knowledge of Brahman he can
attain It by following the path of Bhakti too. God, who loves His devotee,
can give him the knowledge of Brahman if He so desires.

But the Bhakta wants to realize the Personal God endowed with form and talk
to Him. He seldom seeks the knowledge of Brahman. But God, who does everything
at His pleasure, can make His devotee the heir to His infinite glories if it
pleases Him. He gives His devotee both the love of God and knowledge of
Brahman. If one is able to reach Calcutta, one can see the Maidan and the
musuem and other places too. The thing is how to reach Calcutta.

--- Sri Ramakrishna


By realizing the Divine Mother of the universe, you will get knowledge as well
as devotion. You will get both. In bhava samadhi you will see the form of God,
and in nirvikalpa samadhi you will realize Brahman, the Absolute Existence-
Knowledge-Bliss. In nirvikalpa samadhi ego, name, and form do not exist.

--- Sri Ramakrishna

Regards

Gangajal

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #51 on: September 09, 2008, 12:14:03 AM »
I am not surprised that Sri Ramana did not approve of cat marga. Following cat marga implies another
while strict Advaita does not accept anything except the Self!

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2008, 07:28:24 AM »
SURRENDER IS THE ONLY WAY WHICH WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD TO SELF REALISATION.' .

 "A man is truly free, even here in this embodied state, if he knows that God
is the true agent and he by himself is powerless to do anything."
--- Sri Ramakrishna

"Give up every thing to Him, resign yourself to Him and there will no trouble
for you. Then you will come to know that every thing is done by His will."
--- Sri Ramakrishna

Regards

Gangajal





DEAR SIR,

YOUR POSSIBLE WAYS ARE TELLING THE CONCEPT OF SURRENDER, AND ULTIMATELY TO REACH THE STATE OF SURRENDER ALONE.

IS IT NOT THAT SURRENDER WHO FIXES HIS MIND AND HEART ON HIM CONTINUOUSLY ON HIM AND HAS NO DOERSHIP FOR ACTIONS PERFORMED BY HIM. WHEN WE DO WORK WITHPUT DOERSHIP IT IS SURRENDER ONLY AS I SUPPOSE; BECAUSE WE PUT ALL THE FRUITS OF ACTION ON HIM AND WE ARE FREE FROM IT.

WE MAY FOLLOW ANY WAY ONE CHOOSES BUT FINALLY HE REACHES ENQUIRY OF THE TRUTH, THEN ULTIMATELY SURRENDERS TO THE SELF. THIS IS WHAT I MEANT. WITHOUT SURRENDER ONE CAN NOT ATTAIN SALVATION, BECAUSE EGO IS THE HINDERANCE TO THE SURRENDER. AS LONG AS WE SAY SURRENDER IS DIFFICULT WE ARE NOT READY FOR SURRENDER.

AS SURRENDER REQUIRES INNOCENCE, WE ARE THINKING WITH OUR INTELLIGECE HOW CAN SURRENDER. INTELLIGENCE IS ANOTHER KIND OF ENEMY(EGO) WHICH IS OBSTRUCTING US FROM SURRENDER.

PLEASE ENQUIRE DEEPLY IN SILENCE YOU WILL FIND THE NECESSARY ANSWER.

SURRENDER ALONE SUCCEEDS.
TRUTH ALONE TRIUMPHS
KNOW THE TRUTH
BE THE TRUTH.

SIVA SIVA ARUNACHALA SIVA
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2008, 08:31:52 AM »
how are we interested in the many ? We are interested in ourselves ... i am interested in myself, you in yourself.

I am Subramanian ji agreed to disagree on one point: Thoughts need not be removed is my claim. Thoughts have to be removed Subramanian ji says [Beautiful disagreement isnt this ? We respect each others position and yet have our own ideas on this]...

 people think thoughtlessness is liberation. i wish someoen asked him this question :)



DEAR SIR,

RAMANA SPEAKS EVEN NOW IN SILENCE. ONE CAN UNDERSTAND.

HERE HIS THOUGHTS AND SPEECH ARE FROM PURITY AND FOR BETTERMENT OF OTHERS WITH OUT ANY DESIRES.

DONT ASK IS IT DUALITY TO THINK FOR OTHERS. CERTAINLY NO. BECAUSE HE SEES NO ONE OTHER THAN HIMSELF, THAT IS YOU AND ME ARE PART OF HIM AND NOTHING EXIST BEYOND HIM AND WHATEVER HE IS DOING IT IS FOR HIMSELF; AS WITH OUT SELF EXIST NOTHING ELSE. AND WHAT EVER EXIST IS ALSO THE SELF. THEN WHERE IS THE WHERE IS THE QUESTION OF YOU AND ME AS ALL ARE ONE.

IT IS ONLY OUR EGOFUL MIND THAT OURSELF TO LIMITED RELATIONS; WHERE AS THE SELF IS LIMITLESS AND PURITY AND NOTHING EXISTS APART FOM IT.

EVERYTHING IS TRUE AS EVERYTHING AS EMANATED FROM TRUTH. ONE WHO HOLDS ON TRUTH UNDERSTAND THIS OTHERS NOT, AND THIS DOES NOT MEAN OTHERS ARE NOT APART FROM SELF.

ENQUIRE AND FIND THE TRUTH TILL THE TIME YOU UNDERSTAND IT AS I UNDERSTOOD. IF NOT PLEASE CORRECT ME.

SIVA SIVA
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2008, 08:49:00 AM »
Dear all,

BEING is difficult if we are trying to BE SOMETHING.

Does anyone here has difficulty in being what he is? 

Arunachala Siva

DEAR SIR,

I AM STILL LIKE OCEAN OF BED AT MY HEART.
BUT THE THOUGHTS ARE LIKE WAVES IN THE OCEAN AND NOT APART FROM OCEAN.

SO WHEN YOUR THOUGHTS ARE PURE WITH OUT ANY DESIRE AND DOERSHIP, IT IS NOT OUR THOUGHT BUT FROM THE SELF.

AS ANY EXPLOSION COMES FROM SILENCE AND ALL THE TIME SILENCE ALONE EXIST AS THERE IS AFTER EXPLOSION AGAIN SILENCE. SO THE UNDERLYING SILENCE IS FOR ALL THE TIME, BEFORE, DURING,AFTER EXPLOSION.

THE EXPLOSION COMES AND GOES LIKE OUR THOUGHTS AND BODY, BUT THE PURE CONSCIOUSNESS EVER EXIST AS IT IS FOREVER.

SIVA SIVA ARUNACHALASIVA
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #55 on: September 09, 2008, 10:44:05 AM »
Dear Gangajal,  I agree with you, that the visions are not mental
projections and these are made out by Brahman for the seeker
to 'see' its divine forms.  Kavyakanta Ganapati Muni had a vision
in which Bhagavan appeared as Skanda, Kumarila Bhatta and Jnana
Sambandha.  Again, When Bhagavan approved only the monkey
marg, because efforts are needed by the seeker to to attain
Brahman.  Again, Bhagavan did not disapprove the bhakti marga,
but only added that the bhakti towards the Atman within, will make you
to go for self enquiry and  that, enentually makes you to merge
in the Self, through atma-samarpana.

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #56 on: September 09, 2008, 03:10:09 PM »
Dear srkudai,   I shall give a quote from Bhagavan, in Who am I?

Q:-  What is wisdom insight?  (Jnana dhrishti)

A:   Being still is wisdom insight.  To know one's thoughts, the
past, present and future and to know what is happening at a
far off place, are not wisdom-insights.

Please work it out.

To work it out differently,

Brahman always knows what is in srkudai's mind or his thoughts
or imaginations.  Definitely knows.  Why?  Becuase there is
nothing other than Brahman, the One without a second.  It is
like Manikkavachagar fondling the well formed breasts of a
nicely oranmented women?  Becuase, by fondling such breasts,
Brahman(or Siva) is only touching his earlobes!

Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #57 on: September 09, 2008, 04:32:23 PM »
Dear srkudai,  I got your correct now.  Mental simulation of
God, as your iskcon friend had, is definitely 'his own' and
that God cannot know anything else, other than, what he simulates,
e.g. your date of birth.  I fully agree.

But the word Vision means something more than that.  Even though,
again, it is one's own,  If it is activated by personal God, it is called  mantra sakti. Several mantra saktas, had these visions. E.g. Ganapati
Muni had seen Bhagavan Ramana, as Skanda, Kumarila Bhatta and
Jnana Sambandha.  One Jnani is Hrishikesh, who was a Skanda
Bhakta, saw Bhagavan as Skanda.  In fact, this Jnani has written
an Ashottara - 108 Holy Names on Bhagavan.  Yogi Ram Surat
Kumar, who lived in Tiruvannamalai, had seen Kanchi Kamakoti
Sri Chandrasekara Saraswathi as Rama.  Perhaps, I do not know,
Arjuna's vision of Sri Krishna in Viswaroopa is also the divine vision
as conferred by Sri Krishna.

But to be activated by Brahman and 'see' things is the highest.
This cannot be achieved by mantra sakti.  For example, Bhagavan
has 'seen' several caves inside the Arunachala, wherein yogis
are living and all treasures of the world are abundant inside that.
This is said by Bhagavan Sri Ramana, in Arunachala Mahatmyam,
Tamil verses.  No one, even Kavya Kanta Ganapati Muni, who had
mastered Sri Vidya, could not fathom the Arunachala and tell what
Bhagavan has seen and told.

Arunachala Siva.       

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #58 on: September 09, 2008, 07:07:20 PM »
Dear srkudai, Visions, I believe are more than mental imaginations.
Do you then, say what Arjuna saw (Krishana's Visvaroopa) is a
fevered mental imagination and Krishna is a fraud?

Arunachala Siva.

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #59 on: September 09, 2008, 11:17:27 PM »
Dear Subramanian ji, Gangajal,
                 :)

I am not yet convinced that Ramana disapproved the "cat" marga. I think he approved it when he said : surender completely... leave everything to God. Whether or not he called it "cat" marga, he mentioned specifically that one should surrender completely.

And for those who could not do it, partial surrender was suggested... this is "monkey" marga.

This is my understanding...

And Gangajal ... Ramana was a great Bhakta at heart... his Arunachala Akshara manimalai ... if u listen it has statements like :
"i have a friend, having made this faith firm, dont leave me in the ocean of Samsara" ... and
"you are more loving than a Mother, how come you do not remove my ignorance"
etc...

His bhakti was of the kind you mentioned: I requote...

Quote
"A man is truly free, even here in this embodied state, if he knows that God
is the true agent and he by himself is powerless to do anything."
--- Sri Ramakrishna

"Give up every thing to Him, resign yourself to Him and there will no trouble
for you. Then you will come to know that every thing is done by His will."
--- Sri Ramakrishna

And i think this is the essence of True Living... just leave it totally to him.... which means, you understand 100% that things happen as per God and you are not the doer ... that is things are getting done through us, we are not the doers of the actions that happen.
Firmly holding onto this conviction one gets rid of all sense of doership and firmly abides in God (Self) itself.
isnt this so ?
Just Strenghten the faith... and cling to it like a monkey until it becomes so natural that you become a cat totally.
cat attitude ... cling to it like a monkey ;)

Love!
Silence


Dear Silence,
   Yes, I agree with what you have written. The only thing is that it is a nontrivial matter to get rid of all sense of doership. Intense
spiritual practice is needed to get rid of all sense of doership.

Regards

Gangajal