Author Topic: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa  (Read 79184 times)

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2008, 06:49:01 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                   I agree with your observations on surrender and nondoing.Bhagawan is of the opinion that for those people with least amount
of tendencies it is easy for them just to "be"without any doing but for those with lot of tendencies,the tendencies always stimulate them
to do this or that and they are not ease with themselves.So it possible the quality and amount of tendencies determine the feeling that
nondoing is difficult or easy.Again i say that feeling that surrender is difficult is the greatest hurdle in spiritual growth. 
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2008, 07:04:32 PM »
Dear non duel and Raju,  Both of you are correct.  Being still
is the most difficult, because tendencies to act are surging.
Even there are no tendencies to act, thoughts are surging forth.
Bhagavan said that to overcome this, think about one thing,
say, Who am I? or I am Brahman etc., etc.,  If one finds no
answer or get a conviction, I am not this or I am not that, and I am only
Brahman, then at that point, one is merged in the Self.  It is like
a silk worm inside the cocoon, becoming the bee, after contemplating
that I am a bee, and that this is not the place for me!

Arunachala Siva.

     

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2008, 07:30:30 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                   I agree with your observations on surrender and nondoing.Bhagawan is of the opinion that for those people with least amount
of tendencies it is easy for them just to "be"without any doing but for those with lot of tendencies,the tendencies always stimulate them
to do this or that and they are not ease with themselves.So it possible the quality and amount of tendencies determine the feeling that
nondoing is difficult or easy.Again i say that feeling that surrender is difficult is the greatest hurdle in spiritual growth. 

Dear Raju-ji,

Who has "tendencies" ?  When you say that for "them" it is easy...you are saying that it is easy for those "egos" ? And for those who have lot of tendencies it is difficult. In both cases you are considering as "real" the egos, and even more, you consider yourself the ego.

It is difficult for the ego, never for Self. 

Everytime "we" have these thoughts we are "outward" and we are in "I am a body".

In my humble opinion and understanding we have to destroy all these thoughts about difficult. And be CONVINCED!

There is nothing to attain, nothing to change, nothing to learn, nothing to do......

The Ultimate Reality is I AM. All the rest is from the ego.

This is the teaching of Sri Ramana.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2008, 07:44:23 PM »
Dear non duel and Raju,  Both of you are correct.  Being still
is the most difficult, because tendencies to act are surging.
Even there are no tendencies to act, thoughts are surging forth.
Bhagavan said that to overcome this, think about one thing,
say, Who am I? or I am Brahman etc., etc.,  If one finds no
answer or get a conviction, I am not this or I am not that, and I am only
Brahman, then at that point, one is merged in the Self.  It is like
a silk worm inside the cocoon, becoming the bee, after contemplating
that I am a bee, and that this is not the place for me!

Arunachala Siva.

     

Dear Subramanian-ji,

Please correct me if I am wrong.  But in all my reading I haven't found a Sage who said that we are correct in thinking that it is difficult. You are right that conviction is the important aspect. If one is convinced, tell me...what else is there to do?

I can hear Sri Ramana reply "Who is thinking this?" Whence does this thought come from? WHO AM I?"

Because only the ego can "do" !

We are repeatedly told to abide in the self, to keep the attention on the self. Sri Ramana never said that we are in a battle to control thoughts. We are also repeatedly told that we are the SELF. If one is absolutely convinced, then tell me what is there to "do" ? Because only the ego can "do".

All the "difficulties", vasanas, karma, are from the mind.

We have to get rid of this line of thinking. It only keeps us in the "I am the body" thought.

Rest in the self utterly convince, I AM THAT.

My humble opinion, with Love
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2008, 07:48:43 PM »
Dear Subramanian, nonduel , and raju
              :)

There are two things:

a) Being Still
b) Recognizing i am stillness.

If one tries to be still ... that is tough.
if one recognizes that he is stillness ... there is nothing he can do abt it. he is it.
Hence the recognition that i am stillness is what is required.

Attempts to still mind , without recognizing that one is stillness are absolutely useless.
Knowing this, if one tries to still the mind, its fantastic.

The silkworm example is a good one. But one has to see oneself as Brahman and not just think one is brahman...
That is, one has to understand Brahman is Awareness : CidRupam... and then see that one is Awareness, coz Awareness is the only live entity in us. Thus seeing, one has to see it continuously until the mind is totally convinced... This is Self Attention, isnt it ?

Love!
Silence



Dear Srkudai,

YES YES YES!

Only one point:  quote

""Attempts to still mind , without recognizing that one is stillness are absolutely useless.
Knowing this, if one tries to still the mind, its fantastic. ""

Arunachala Siva
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2008, 08:01:08 PM »
Dear all,

BEING is difficult if we are trying to BE SOMETHING.

Does anyone here has difficulty in being what he is? 

Arunachala Siva
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2008, 08:59:34 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                   Because of self-ignorance every human being tries to be something and so there is difficulty in just being"as they are".
                   If it is so easy in being"what he is"(Being as the self) why so many people are still self-ignorant?
                   Intellectual conclusion that one is self is onething and being as the self is completely another thing.
pvssnraju

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2008, 09:36:13 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                   Because of self-ignorance every human being tries to be something and so there is difficulty in just being"as they are".
                   If it is so easy in being"what he is"(Being as the self) why so many people are still self-ignorant?
                   Intellectual conclusion that one is self is onething and being as the self is completely another thing.

Dear Raju-ji,

You ARE the SELF!  You will never "become" the SELF. If we are not convinced of this, then we doubt Sri Ramana's teaching.

All the rest is "there" because of the thought "I am the body".

And thinking that it is difficult, that many are self-ignorant, are only thoughts. Without these, you are the Self.

The belief that many are self-ignorant, implies that this isn't easy to attain. The difficulties is in the mind ONLY.

From Annamalai Swami, "Final Talks" page 105:

"""Even when you are told, "Hapiness is within you as your own Self. Look inwards and find it", still you think that you have to do something or go somewhere to discover it. This is the power of Maya, of illusion. This is like one fish in the sea asking another fish for directions to the ocean.
When you are not aware that your glasses are resting on your nose, you may look for them all day, thinking that they are lost. As a consequence, you believe that they are an object to be found. Eventually, you realise that you were wearing them all the time.
While the search was on, that which was being sought was, in reality, that through which the seeing was taking place. You were looking for an object that finaly turned out to be the subject that was doing the seeing. So it is with the mind and the Self. Mind sets up the notion that the Self needs to be found, and then proceeds to hunt for it as if it were some object that could be located in some interior place. This is as foolish as a man with a goat wrapped round his shoulders spending his time wandering around, looking for his goat, and asking everyone he meets where it might be."""


What we are looking for is what we ARE. There's nothing else to do. Like in the story of the tenth man, after the slap on the tenth man, is there any need the pursue the search for the "missing" man?

The only effort, is for self-attention. Break the habit, after many births, of looking outwards. Even then, we will not attain something, we will just realise that "the glasses where on our nose" all of the time.

If one is convinced of the truth taught by Sri Ramana, then is it hard to BE what one IS? It is harder to be something, or someone ELSE. Acting is a role that actors do, and this isn't easy to be good at. Sri Ramana..."does a man continously repeat he is a man to know he is a man?"  Is it difficult for a man to be a man or for a women to be a women?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 10:07:27 PM by nonduel »
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2008, 10:21:34 PM »
Dear Raju-ji,

This example came up.  We are like a person wearing green tinted glasses and going to an eye specialist to complain that we see everything green. The specialist (Sadguru) takes the sunglasses of (removes the doubts) and the person realises that it was the glasses (thoughts) causing this.  ;D
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #39 on: September 07, 2008, 09:03:46 AM »
Dear nonduel,
                   Mind is covered by a nonexistent membrane of self-ignorance which makes us to forget our nature as self and shows the unitary
thing as multiplicity.The membrane is there just because we believe it is there.If we enquire into the existence of the membrane it will be found
to be nonexistent.What exists is self,the membrane and the consequent delusion are nonexistent.The Guru who is free of delusion that
membrane of self-ignorance is covering the self tells us how to be free of that belief that we are self-ignorant.The concept that we are self-ignorant
is nothing but a belief,it is an idea which is annihilated by self-enquiry which confers self-knowledge.Self-knowledge is the only way to get rid
of that nonexistent membrane of self-ignorance which seems to cover the self effulgence of the self.We are conditioned as self-ignorant people.
Self-enquiry is a deconditioning process which helps us to know ourselves as we are.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2008, 11:25:34 AM »
Dear non duel, srkudai, Raju,  I saw all the posts exchanged between
you three.  Very interesting.  What is difficult?  The difficulty is in
removal of thoughts.  It is like adamantly wearing green glasses
and complaining to the doctor that the world is looking green.  It
is like that fellow (the story that I have written about a few days
back), who wants the 'monkey' on his chest all the time, even
after the doctor has cut the knot and released the monkey.
Bhagavan said:  Be still.  He did not say: Think still.  That is the
whole problem.  If one could vanquish all the thoughts, then
one is self realized.

Dear nonduel, You are asking, What is next?  There is no next.
Being still is self realization.  The very thought to ask, What is
next? produces thoughts.  Since there is no next, it is Brahman,
for Brahman is One without a second.  Brahman is all pervasive,
there is no next, there is no pretext.  It is this conviction that should
remain with us all the time.

I am not sure, whether I have made the point clear.  If it is not
clear, we  should all work it out with, different sets of words.

What Bhagavan told Annamalai Swami, IS THE TEACHING, THE CRUX.

Arunachala Siva.           

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #41 on: September 07, 2008, 12:28:45 PM »
Dear srkudai,
                 In your post to nonduel you said"you have the liberty to see the world green or remove the glasses and see it as it is".That is a
comprehensive understanding.There is nothing wrong in wearing glasses,we require them sometimes as you said.I appreciate your understanding.
Probably such freedom to wear or remove the glasses are possible for chosen few.Many do not remove the glasses even when they are
not required.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #42 on: September 07, 2008, 02:12:39 PM »
Dear srkudai,  You car example fits your reasoning.  But see my
reasoning. Sri RK said, that when your mother asks you to fetch
a kg of fish, after seeing her note, your throw away the note,
because you are fetching a kg of fish!  After you have fetched a
kg of fish, the paper note is no longer needed!

Who am I? is a note.  After merging with the Self, the note
is no longer necessary.

Arunachala Siva.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2008, 05:03:36 PM »
Dear non duel, srkudai, Raju,  I saw all the posts exchanged between
you three.  Very interesting.  What is difficult?  The difficulty is in
removal of thoughts.  It is like adamantly wearing green glasses
and complaining to the doctor that the world is looking green.  It
is like that fellow (the story that I have written about a few days
back), who wants the 'monkey' on his chest all the time, even
after the doctor has cut the knot and released the monkey.
Bhagavan said:  Be still.  He did not say: Think still.  That is the
whole problem.  If one could vanquish all the thoughts, then
one is self realized.

Dear nonduel, You are asking, What is next?  There is no next.
Being still is self realization.  The very thought to ask, What is
next? produces thoughts.  Since there is no next, it is Brahman,
for Brahman is One without a second.  Brahman is all pervasive,
there is no next, there is no pretext.  It is this conviction that should
remain with us all the time.

I am not sure, whether I have made the point clear.  If it is not
clear, we  should all work it out with, different sets of words.

What Bhagavan told Annamalai Swami, IS THE TEACHING, THE CRUX.

Arunachala Siva.           

Dear Subramanian-ji,

Just a correction on my preceeding post. The excerpt and the words are those of Sri Annamalai himself to a devotee.

You are absolutely correct that this IS THE TEACHING...THE CRUX.

I have read my posts and couldn't find where I have asked "what's next?"
« Last Edit: September 07, 2008, 06:26:02 PM by nonduel »
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2008, 05:31:39 PM »
Dear All,

There is never an instant when SELF isn't "there".

Is happiness difficult in deep sleep? Only in the waking state do questions like difficult, doing, surge. Why?  Because the "I-thought" arises on waking. Then the ego starts his show, the movie is projected on the screen and throughout the waking state we believe we are the actor. The actors goes through difficulties, not the spectator, the "witness".

Like Subramanian-ji wrote this is the CRUX. The Ribhu Gita says that if one is CONVINCED (Bhavana) that I AM BRAHMAN, this is the most rapid way to Self-Realisation.

In the same book, Sri Anamalai also said:

""All is my Self". "All is the nectar of my own Self". These are the great affirmations that counter the "I am the body" thought. Holding on to one of these sayings is the equal of millions of punyas. If we continously meditate on the truth of these statements, if we hold on to the truth that they are pointed towards, countless punyas will accrue to us.
There are many other mantras, but none are as usefull as these. Ribhu Gita says, "All is one, All is the Self". This is the truth that you have to hold onto. To the real "I", nothing is foreign in the entire universe. If you know you are everything, there will be no desire to pursue some things and not others.
""

All is my Self. Difficult ?

Love to all,

Arunachala Siva



Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.