Author Topic: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa  (Read 79672 times)

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2008, 03:18:59 PM »
I personally feel that thinking that self-enquiry,surrender,self-realisation are difficult is one of the greatest hurdle on the spiritual path.
In reality they are not difficult but ego for it's own survival makes us feel that they are difficult.Beware of this trick of the ego.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2008, 04:17:23 PM »
Dear Raju,  You have answered srkudai, on the point that
I wanted to make.  Be it atma vichara, or be it  atma samarpana,
the difficulty, is with our fattened ego.

Arunachala Siva.   

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2008, 10:14:57 PM »
Dear Subramanian-ji and Raju-ji,

Surrender being difficult reminds me of the example that Sri Ramana gave of the person carrying his luggage on his head while on a train instead of putting it down and letting the train carry it. It makes me think of the reply he gave to someone saying it was difficult, "Is it difficult for man to know that he is a man". There are many other replies of Sri Ramana on this.

I think that this is very much based on doubt and lack of conviction. We have talked about conviction, Bhavana, in a thread on the Ribhu Gita.

Thus is it really difficult?  Or are we still doubting?  What has to be done is NOTHING!  We have to put the suitcase (thinking of difficulties) down, and let the train (Self) carry it.

It is obvious that Grace is flowing from the Self, and Self is pulling, inspiring "us"...otherwise we wouldn't even talk about all of the teaching.

We have to let-go. We (ego) have been trying through many births without much success. Why not let Self take over? And get out of the way.

Everytime these thoughts surge...the only thing we have to "do" is to return to self-attention.
Love,
Arunachala Siva
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2008, 01:32:16 AM »
Dear Sankarji,

    I have to disagree with your statement that,'SURRENDER IS THE ONLY WAY WHICH WILL ULTIMATELY LEAD TO SELF REALISATION.' .

Gita chapter 12 lists several possible ways. I have given below the relevant Gita verses:

Those I consider as the most perfect in Yoga, who with their minds fixed
intently on Me in steadfast love, worship Me with absolute faith.
(Gita 12.2)

Those who are devoted to the Imperishable (the Impersonal Absolute) - who is
the firm support of the world and is also undefinable, unmanifested,
transcendent, motionless, and all-pervading - even they reach me alone,
striving with their senses controlled, and with mind tranquillised and set
on the welfare of all.
(Gita 12.3-4)

But, O son of Prtha, soon will I lift from this ocean of death-bound wordly
existence, those whose minds are ever set on Me - those who abandon to Me
the fruits of all their actions together with the sense of agency thereof,
and who worship Me, meditating on Me as their sole refuge and their only
love. (Gita 12.6-7)

Fix your mind on Me alone; let your reason penetrate into Me; without doubt
you will then abide in Me alone for ever more. (Gita 12.8)

If you are unable to fix your mind steadily on Me (even at the start) then try
to reach Me through the systematic practice of concentration. (Gita 12.9)

If you are not capable of practising systematic concentration, then devote
yourself wholeheartedly to works service to Me (consisting in external worship
and discharge of duties for My sake). Thus working for Me, man can attain
to perfection. (Gita 12.10)

If even this is difficult for you to perform, then taking refuge in Me
and then controlling the mind, give up the fruits of all your actions.
.(Gita 12.11)

Take a look at Gita 12.10 where Karma Yoga is being suggested for those who are unable to
systematically practice concentration. Gita is then saying that if one can not do even that
then one should give up the fruits of all action. (Gita 12.11)

It is true, however, that someone who can really surrender will have self realization.

"A man is truly free, even here in this embodied state, if he knows that God
is the true agent and he by himself is powerless to do anything."
--- Sri Ramakrishna

"Give up every thing to Him, resign yourself to Him and there will no trouble
for you. Then you will come to know that every thing is done by His will."
--- Sri Ramakrishna

Regards

Gangajal




gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #19 on: September 06, 2008, 01:33:23 AM »
Surrender requires an innocent mind.Innocent mind neither demands anything nor make any complaints against God.This is possible only
when one loves God for God sake only.

Yes, this is absolutely true!

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2008, 01:37:47 AM »
Dear Gangajal,
            :) Thanks for posting, i would like you to post more often here ... thanks you.
as i understand...
Pure Surrender happens only via knowledge.
its like this ...

I think there is a doer, an actor, a sufferer, an enjoyer. This is wrong idea and we have to see that this is an illusion. and that within there is only God ... Sat-Chid-Ananda[Consciousness , awareness... the pure witness] ... that is, when i understand that God alone is ...there is absolutely no place for a doer... coz the things get done, actions happen ... but there is no doer ...

This is the idea Sri Ramakrishna explans... if you understand that what ever happens is through God ... and see clearly that doership is born out of ignorance, that is complete surrender.

its like a wave in an ocean... when the wave understands the ocean, it leaves no place for itself as a separate entity...

Love!
Silence

Dear Silence,
     Surrender is a well known part of Bhakti marga and not just jnana. Let me give 2 examples here.
  Sri Ramakrishna distinguishes between cat bhakti and monkey bhakti. Those who follow monkey bhakti wrap their arms
around the mother the way monkeys do. As a result the Bhakta is responsible for staying on the right path. Those who
follow cat bhakti allow God to carry them towards their goal, i.e., they completely surrender to God.

Regards

Gangajal

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2008, 01:38:54 AM »
Dear gangajal and srkudai,  Yes.  Surrender is as difficult as
self enquiry.   We are all doing partial surrenders thinking it
is surrender.  Total surrender is something quite different.  Saint
Manikkavachagar says in Tiruvachakam, Tiruvembavai,

" O Siva, I am your maiden, I am subservient to you always.
Our breasts will not rest in anyone's else's shoulders excepting yours!
After that, what if, if it is day or night?  I do not see either.
I do not care, even if the sun rises in any direction! "

Arunachala Siva.
 
Yes, this is very true!

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2008, 09:34:26 AM »
Dear all,
          Buddha said if you come across your Guru while meditating-kill him(mentally).Sri Ramakrishna used to have visions of kali and used to
communicate with her for so many years.Once Totapuri,a realised master with advaita vasana asked Ramakrishna to meditate on thid eye
and Totapuri pierced skin of Ramakrishna over third eye with a glass piece and asked Ramakrishna to go ahead with meditation.
Immedietly Kali appeared before Ramakrishna and he reported the same to Totapuri.Totapuri told Ramakrishna to cut Kali into two pieces if she appears.
Ramakrishna innocently asked how using sword is possible during meditation.Totapuri told Ramakrishna that kali is nothing but your mental
projection arose out of devotion and you create a sword with your mental power and kill kali with it.Ramakrishna did it and he immediately went into deep samadhi and enjoyed the bliss for 21 days continuously without any distraction.So are visions our own mental projections only? though they
help us spiritually.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2008, 11:04:09 AM »
Dear Raju,  Yes.  Visions are also dual but as you say, they help us
in the process of self realization.  David Godman says that even
the visions of Ganapati Muni, seeing Bhagvan as avatara of Skanda,
Jnana Sambandha and Kumarila Bhatta, are also dual and these
may not be correct, even though the Muni made these points
in Sri Ramana Gita.  I had some exachange of comments with
David regarding this point.  I told him that I did not want to
discuss the duality of the visions, but the avatara conclusions
of Ganapati Muni are true.

Arunachala Siva.

   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2008, 11:06:11 AM »
Dear Raju,  The Zen Master's statement:  "If you want to see
Buddha on the road kill him!" is the great truth of Advaita
Sadhana.  There is a book with that title.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2008, 11:10:43 AM »
Dear Gangajal,  Your two ways of Bhakti Marga, the monkey way
and the cat way have also been discussed with Bhagavan by
somone in His Talks.  He said categorically that He did not approve
of the cat way, and wanted every seeker to make efforts on their
own, (by holding on to the mother monkey's belly) to merge
with the Self.  He also says in Who am I?  "God and Guru will
help the seekers to attain self realization, but will not on their
own, lift and drop the seekers into the Self!  Everyone should
follow the ways of god and guru.

Arunachala Siva.   

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2008, 01:16:05 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                  I never said surrender is difficult.I wrote that thinking surrender is difficult is a trick of the ego to save itself from annihilation.I also
wrote that it is a greatest hurdle in spiritual growth to think that surrender is difficult.Kindly see my previous posting also for clarification.
pvssnraju

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2008, 01:37:30 PM »
Dear srkudai, Raju and others:  Bhagavan Ramana has said
in Talks (I do not remember to whom He said and on what
occasion, but when these two 'margas' were discussed) that
the seekers shoud try to make efforts on their own, that is
monkey way, to realize the Self.  He has also said that Guru and
God will help you in Self realization, but will not lift you up and drop you
into the Self and for that purpose, one should follow the ways of
Guru in letter and spirit.  He has also said the same in Who am I?
to Sivaprakasam Pillai. The story about seeking the Guru who is
keeping his legs on the Siva lingam is from Korak Kumbar & Mukti
Natheshwar and this has also been told by Bhagavan Ramana.  This
is the story told by one of the Veera Saiva saints in 'The Speaking
of Siva.'  This is also attributed to the Tamil poet and Jnani Avvaiyar,
a lady saint.  She said the same thing to the king, who got angry
when he saw her keeping her legs on Siva lingam.

Arunachala Siva.     
 

DRPVSSNRAJU

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2008, 02:01:38 PM »
Bhagawan has great reverence for Avvaiyar.
pvssnraju

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2008, 06:33:29 PM »
Dear nonduel,
                  I never said surrender is difficult.I wrote that thinking surrender is difficult is a trick of the ego to save itself from annihilation.I also
wrote that it is a greatest hurdle in spiritual growth to think that surrender is difficult.Kindly see my previous posting also for clarification.

Dear Raju-ji,

I know. If you read my post you will find that I always used "we" which includes nonduel. It wasn't pointing at anyone, but just a thinking out loud sort of post. All of you already know this.

But I find that "we" are all subject to period of finding it difficult, and this is just a play of the mind. It is rather peculiar that we all know this, but nevertheless it keeps surging and surging. The teaching of Sri Ramana, and by many Sages continously say this. We have all read this numerous and numerous times.

Surrender isn't difficult. What can be difficult in doing nothing??? The example of the train is a good one. And what can be difficult in BEING???

Everytime this thought surges, we have to destroy it because it is a delusion...we ALREADY ARE!

Dear Raju-ji, I have written this before, please never see in my post a negative critic to someone. Maybe a badly expressed opinion, but no bad intention whatsoever. There is only SELF.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.