Author Topic: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa  (Read 76600 times)

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #60 on: September 09, 2008, 11:21:39 PM »
Conversation on the reality of Divine form in Ramakrishna Kathamrita:

Ramdayal (to Shashadhar):"The scriptures speak of Brahman's form as a
projection of mind. Who is it that projects?"

Shashadhar:"It is Brahman Itself that does so. It is no projection of
man's mind".

Pratap:"Why does Brahman project the form?"

Sri Ramakrishna:"You ask why? Brahman doesn't act in consultation with others.
It is Brahman's pleasure. Brahman is self-willed."

(Pandit Shashadhar was a famous Vedanta teacher at that time.)

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2008, 01:58:03 AM »
DEAR SIR,

YOUR POSSIBLE WAYS ARE TELLING THE CONCEPT OF SURRENDER, AND ULTIMATELY TO REACH THE STATE OF SURRENDER ALONE.

IS IT NOT THAT SURRENDER WHO FIXES HIS MIND AND HEART ON HIM CONTINUOUSLY ON HIM AND HAS NO DOERSHIP FOR ACTIONS PERFORMED BY HIM. WHEN WE DO WORK WITHPUT DOERSHIP IT IS SURRENDER ONLY AS I SUPPOSE; BECAUSE WE PUT ALL THE FRUITS OF ACTION ON HIM AND WE ARE FREE FROM IT.

WE MAY FOLLOW ANY WAY ONE CHOOSES BUT FINALLY HE REACHES ENQUIRY OF THE TRUTH, THEN ULTIMATELY SURRENDERS TO THE SELF. THIS IS WHAT I MEANT. WITHOUT SURRENDER ONE CAN NOT ATTAIN SALVATION, BECAUSE EGO IS THE HINDERANCE TO THE SURRENDER. AS LONG AS WE SAY SURRENDER IS DIFFICULT WE ARE NOT READY FOR SURRENDER.

AS SURRENDER REQUIRES INNOCENCE, WE ARE THINKING WITH OUR INTELLIGECE HOW CAN SURRENDER. INTELLIGENCE IS ANOTHER KIND OF ENEMY(EGO) WHICH IS OBSTRUCTING US FROM SURRENDER.

PLEASE ENQUIRE DEEPLY IN SILENCE YOU WILL FIND THE NECESSARY ANSWER.

SURRENDER ALONE SUCCEEDS.
TRUTH ALONE TRIUMPHS
KNOW THE TRUTH
BE THE TRUTH.

SIVA SIVA ARUNACHALA SIVA

Surrender is only for the aspirant. The question of surrender does not arise for a person who can directly see
that he is not the doer.

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2008, 06:02:09 AM »

Surrender is only for the aspirant. The question of surrender does not arise for a person who can directly see
that he is not the doer.
[/quote]

DEAR SIR,

YES, SURRENDER IS ONLY FOR THE ASPIRANT AND NOT TO THE SURRENDERED.

KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2008, 10:56:34 AM »
Dear srkudai, Gangajal and Sankar,

Gangajal has said the final thing.  If a person is doing everything
without a sense of doership, he can 'see', Siddhas, caves and
treasures of the Arunachala. 

Arjuna 'saw' the Visvaroopa of Krishana, without the sense
of doership.  Hence it was shown to him.

Bhagavan Ramana has also said in Talks,( when someone asked
whether Indraloka, Chandraloka are real,) that these lokas
are as real as the world, and there are people sitting before Me,
asking questions too!"

In Sri Dakshinamoorthy Stotram, of Sankara,  (which Bhagavan has translatedin Tamil verses) it is said that a Brahma Jnani, gets
eight virtues along with being Brahman.  These virtues inlcude
anima, mahima etc., and contain a virtue of 'seeing everything
at will'.  This seeing and willing are without the sense of doership.

Arunachala Siva. 

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #64 on: September 11, 2008, 12:06:04 AM »
Well, Doership is not there even now.

The body and brain are dead entities.
Consciousness/God is pure witness.
Who is the doer here ?
Doership is just a thought in the mind !

That is why "Om Namh Sivaya" means I am not... Namah.... only OM, or Siva IS.
So in Siva's Siva Tandavam, i appear alive ... Truely this is a Seva even now ...
Siva is birthless and deathless.
Body is never alive... so it is neither born nor dies!


Love!
Silence

Dear Silence,
     If you really believe that 'Body is never alive... so it is neither born nor dies! ' then you
should not call a doctor when you become sick. A Jnani must consider his own body as
like dirt. Sri Ramana refused operation to save himself from cancer. Sri Ramakrishna scolded
his disciples for asking him to request the Divine Mother for curing his cancer.

    It is a non-trivial matter to be a Jnani! I am yet to see one although I sat through nearly 750
lectures given by different Swamis of Ramakrishna Order and other organizations from 1985 to 2000.

Regards

Gangajal

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #65 on: September 11, 2008, 07:44:53 AM »
Well, Doership is not there even now.

The body and brain are dead entities.
Consciousness/God is pure witness.
Who is the doer here ?
Doership is just a thought in the mind !

That is why "Om Namh Sivaya" means I am not... Namah.... only OM, or Siva IS.
So in Siva's Siva Tandavam, i appear alive ... Truely this is a Seva even now ...
Siva is birthless and deathless.
Body is never alive... so it is neither born nor dies!


Love!
Silence

Dear Silence,
     If you really believe that 'Body is never alive... so it is neither born nor dies! ' then you
should not call a doctor when you become sick. A Jnani must consider his own body as
like dirt. Sri Ramana refused operation to save himself from cancer. Sri Ramakrishna scolded
his disciples for asking him to request the Divine Mother for curing his cancer.

    It is a non-trivial matter to be a Jnani! I am yet to see one although I sat through nearly 750
lectures given by different Swamis of Ramakrishna Order and other organizations from 1985 to 2000.

Regards

Gangajal


DEAR SIR,

AS YOU SAID BODY IS NOT A MATTER TO BE BOTHERED FOR A JNANI AS HE IS NOT THE BODY. BUT AS OF NOW SO CALLED GURUS SAY SO ONLY TO THE PUBLIC AND NOT FOR THE SELF. AS THEY GO FOR SPECIALISED TREATMENT. THAT IS CLEAR INDICATION OF PREACHING IS NOT IN PRACTICE AND THOSE ARE NOT REALISED IN REAL.

EVEN ONE HAS DESIRE FOR AND EXHIBITS SIDDHI IS ALSO NOT REALISED AS HE IS CRAVING FOR NAME AND FAME. AS SIDDHIES ARE AS WELL REQUIRED FOR THIS BODY ONLY. REMAINING WITHOUT ANY DESIRE FOR ANYTHING AND LOSS OF BODY CONSCIOUSNESS ATTAINED BY SRI RAMANA, JESUS, RAMAKRISHNA SWAMI ARE REALISED SOULS WITHOUT ANY DOUBT AND THEY ARE LIVING AS BEFORE EVEVN NOW. AND ONE CAN DEFINITELY CHOOSE THEM AS GURU INSTEAD OF LIVING BOGUS BODIES, HOLD ONTO THEIR FEET AND CAN SWIM FROM THIS WORLD TO THE REALISATION BY THEIR GRACE WITH OUR SINCERITY.

MY DESIRE IS TO HAVE DESIRELESSNESS AND TO LOSS BODY CONSCIOUSNESS TOTALLY AND IT CAN ONLY HAPPEN ONLY WHEN I AM RIPE UNTIL THEN I KEEP FOLLOW THEIR PATH. THE PATH IS VERY DIFFICULT AND YET VERY EASY AT LATER STAGE. ONLY I BELIEVE IN PATIENCE, PERSISTENT ENQUIRY WITH TOLERANCE. I FALL DOWN MANY TIMES BUT STILL I DONT LEAVE THE FEET OF SRI RAMANA, AS I AM A CHILD HOLDING HIS HAND AND LEARNING TO WALK.

SIVA SIVA
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #66 on: September 11, 2008, 11:16:52 AM »
Dear Gangajal,  As you say, only a Brahma Jnani can feel
that he is not the body and he is neither born, nor is he going
to die.  For all the rest, body is very much there and so are the
pain and pleasure and the fear of burning ghats.  Vivekananda,
I believe, once said:  I believe in Advaita, but when a stone
hits my leg, there is pain and I feel 'Oh, there is pain."

Arunachala Siva. 

gangajal

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2008, 11:08:18 PM »
Dear Subramanian and Sankar,
     Both of you are correct.

Regards

Gangajal

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #68 on: September 12, 2008, 10:37:57 AM »
Dear Gangajal and srkudai,  Your nice posts.  Jnani does also
have pain.  But only thing is, he does not mind it, because he
has no mind.  Saiva Siddhanta says that the pain and suffering
from will be 'thinned'.  In other words, what has come to hit
the Jnani's head, will hit his head-wear and it will fall.  Bhagavan
Ramana has said the pain due to sarcoma bleeding and surgeries
were like ant bites!  Dr Guruswami Mudaliar who did the surgeries
has said that the pain would be as excrucitating as if a lorry is
running over your hand.

Arunachala Siva.     

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #69 on: September 12, 2008, 12:41:24 PM »

when presence of pain does not create any conflict, why remove it at all ?


 DEAR SIR,

HE MUST HAVE ACCEPTED AS NOT TO DISAPPOINT THE DOCTORS WHO HAS COME WITH SO MUCH COMPASSION AND CARE IS ONE THING.

AND ANOTHER THING LET ANY AMOUNT HUMAN STRUGGLE BE PUT ON WITH ANY AMOUNT OF CARE CAN NOT CURE THE DISEASE WHICH IS FOR DESTRUCTION OF THIS BODY. THIS MIGHT THE ANOTHER LESSON HE MUST TAUGHT TO ALL IN SILENCE.

IT IS CLEAR THAT ONE HAS TO ACCEPT THE PAIN OF DEATH AS IT IS WITH MEDICAL OR WITH OUT IT AND NO OTHER GO. ONE SHOULD GET ABSORBED IN SELF ALL THE WHILE TO MITIGATE THE PAIN WITH EASE AND COMFORT.

SIVA SIVA
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #70 on: September 12, 2008, 12:59:34 PM »
Dear srkudai and Sankar,

You said that Bhagavan withdrew the mind, due to surgery so
that He could not have the pain and did not do so, during knee
problem.  This raises another question.  Where was the mind
for Him to withdraw or not to withdraw?

In this connection, I have to quote only the first verse of
Kamba Ramayanam in Tamil by Kambar, 10th century AD.

O Narayana, we surrender to your feet,
You are the one who plays a clueless play!
You make the world, sustain it and and dissolve it,
You are there in the world but not there."

Like Brahman, Brahma Jnani is also a person of clue less play!

Why did He bear with the pain of surgery?  Why did He not.
during knee joint pain?   Why did He have medicine for His
eczema? Why did He have spectacles for reading (during His
later years?  Why did He fall down in the Ashram and have a
sprained neck?

How do we know, srkudai?

Arunachala Siva.

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #71 on: September 12, 2008, 05:22:20 PM »
What nonduel "sees" and interpret is nonduel's delusion.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #72 on: September 12, 2008, 05:28:07 PM »
Dear non duel,  Or could it be non duel's Knowledge?

Arunachala Siva. 

nonduel

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #73 on: September 12, 2008, 06:00:09 PM »
Dear non duel,  Or could it be non duel's Knowledge?

Arunachala Siva. 

Dear Subramanian-ji,

Yes! Knowledge is also delusion, Self is beyond knowledge.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

SANKAR

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Re: Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa
« Reply #74 on: September 12, 2008, 06:53:37 PM »

O Narayana, we surrender to your feet,
You are the one who plays a clueless play!
You make the world, sustain it and and dissolve it,
You are there in the world but not there."

Like Brahman, Brahma Jnani is also a person of clue less play!

Why did He bear with the pain of surgery?  Why did He not.
during knee joint pain?   Why did He have medicine for His
eczema? Why did He have spectacles for reading (during His
later years?  Why did He fall down in the Ashram and have a
sprained neck?


Arunachala Siva.

DEAR SIR,

SORRY SIR, IT IS NOT REQUIRED FOR US TO ANALYSE.

HE IS  CLUELESS. WE CAN NOT FIND ANY SOLUTION. BUT BE PRACTICAL THAT WE CAN BEAR SOMETHING AND EVERYTHING WHEN THERE IS NO ALTERNATIVE.

IN BHAGVANS ACTION THERE MAY BE MESSAGE TO SOMEONE IN DIRECT FORM OR INDIRECT FORM.

WE CAN NOT JUDGE HIS ACTIONS. THOSE MAY BE SPONTANIOUS AND TO SHOW LESSON TO SOME ONE. PLEASE LET US NOT DRAG THIS KIND OF DISCUSSIONS AS IT IS NOT REQUIRED. WE ARE LEAVING THE CONCEPT.

YOUR ABOVE QUOTES NICELY THAT, THEY ARE THERE AND NOT THERE AND CLUELESS. IT IS TRUE.

SIVA SIVA ARUNACHALA SIVA
KANNAN MEERA SANKAR