Author Topic: Is Jnaan through sadhana or study of scriptures?  (Read 6056 times)

ksksat27

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Re: Is Jnaan through sadhana or study of scriptures?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2013, 01:40:39 PM »
Dear Subramanian ji,
   :)

Quote
Scriptural study and contemplation there of, is only to understand clearly about Self, Reality or God.  Once this study is
completed to a reasonable level, the sadhka chooses one of the two paths; viz., bhakti or jnana

Where did you get this idea sir?
1. Sravana-Manana-Nidhidhyasanam ... contemplation ... is self sufficient.
2. There are no "Two" paths like bhakti and Jnana. Even the highest bhakta ... like Hanuman ... learnt Atma Jnana from Sri Rama. The teaching was given to hanuman ... coz he was a bhakta.
3. Without Brahma-Atma-Aikya bodha ... no liberation is possible ... no second thoughts on this. Atleast as far as Shankara and upanishad's go.
4. A guru must be srotriya , knowledgeable in scriptures ... mundaka .

:) how can we ignore all this ?

But Subramaiam Sir has told is exactly what I believe and majority of Ramana Maharishee's followers believe this only.      We dont agree endless reading of scriptures.  Ramana Maharishee stressed importance for efforts and sadhana may it be bhakthi or jnana.

To say that something is self sufficient may be correct,  but to say that something is a absolute pre-condition for final liberation is not correct.

12 + 3 is 15.

But 17 - 2 is also 15.  One cannot deny that.




Subramanian.R

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Re: Is Jnaan through sadhana or study of scriptures?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2013, 01:56:37 PM »
Dear Tusnim

Sri Bhagavan Himself has said that in Atma Vichara itself, there is antra-sravana, antra-manana and antra-nidhidhyasana.

Bhakti and Jnana are not different. Bhakti is  Jnana matha. However, for the sake of understanding I quoted separately,
the ways of a bhakta and a Jnana sadhaka. In Para bhakti where ego dissolves, it becomes automatically a  Jnana Marga.
Murugnar calls it a state of Irai Pani niRRal in Upadesa Saram. The real service to God is only contemplating God or the
Self.

Regarding stotriyam brahmanishtam, one understands the Sastras in the beginning. Sri Bhagavan's case was unique.
By His Self Realization, sastra jnanam came on their own accord. Sri Bhagavan says this in Atma Vidya Kirtanam, Verse 3. 

Arunachala Siva.

   
   

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Is Jnaan through sadhana or study of scriptures?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2013, 02:31:13 PM »
From Talks with Ramana Maharshi

"Objects perceived by the senses are spoken of as immediate knowledge(pratyaksha). Can anything be as direct as the Self -- always experienced without the aid of the senses? Sense-perceptions can only be indirect knowledge, and not direct knowledge. Only one's own awareness is direct knowledge, as is the common experience of one and all. No aids are needed to know one's own Self, i.e., to be aware. The one Infinite Unbroken Whole (plenum) becomes aware of itself as 'I'. This is its original name. All other names, e.g., OM, are later growths. Liberation is only to remain aware of the Self. The mahavakya 'I am Brahman' is its authority. Though the 'I' is always experienced, yet one's attention has to be drawn to it. Then only knowledge dawns. Thus the need for the instruction of the Upanishads and of wise sages."

D.: Gandhiji adhered to satya (Truth) so long and won realisation of the Self.

M.: What is satya except the Self? Satya is that which is made up of sat. Again sat is nothing but the Self. So Gandhiji’s satya is only the Self. Each one knows the Self but is yet ignorant. The person is enabled to realise only after hearing the mahavakya. Hence the Upanishadic text is the eternal Truth to which everyone who has realised owes his experience. After hearing the Self to be the Brahman the person finds the true import of the Self and reverts to it whenever he is diverted from it. Here is the whole process of Realisation.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Is Jnaan through sadhana or study of scriptures?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2013, 02:36:32 PM »
Krishna(ksksat27)/Friends,
My answer to your simple query is jnana is not the result of anything that we may do or not do.This does not mean that Sadhana is not required or that Study of Scriptures is pointless.
Perhaps you wish to know whether a seeker without any scriptural knowlege can attain to JnAna?The answer to this is an emphatic yes.

Udai has quoted sri sankara as having said:
Quote
Jnana Viheena Sarva Mathena Bhajati na muktim janma shatena" ... without jnana , what ever system of thought you follow ... you wont find liberation in a 100 births ... shankara
First and foremost the verse in question is verse 17:

Quote
One may go to Gangasagar, observe fasts, and give away riches
in charity ! Yet, devoid of jnana, nothing can give mukthi even
at the end of a hundred births
.

This Stanza is attributed to vArtikakAra,sankara's disciple.As can be seen from the verse itself,it just says that outer observances of any kind cannot give Mukthi.This is to be understood as such and cannot be stretched to mean that one cannot attain Mukti without scriptural study.

In Fact there is another Verse in Bhaja Govindam which States:
Born again, death again, again to stay in the mother’s womb !
It is indeed hard to cross this boundless ocean of samsAra . Oh
Murari ! Redeem me through Thy mercy.
Stanza attributed to nityanAtha.

Also this other verse:
Regularly recite from the Gita, meditate on Vishnu in your
heart, and chant His thousand glories . Take delight to be with
the noble and the holy . Distribute your wealth in charity to
the poor and the needy.
Stanza attributed to sumatir.

Also this verse:
Through the company of the good, there arises non-attachment;
 through non-attachment, there arises freedom from delution;
 through delusionless-ness, there arises steadfastness;
 through steadfastness, there arises liberation in life

This verse is attributed to Sri sankara and also the final verse 31 of Bhaja Govindam:
Being devoted completely to the lotus-feet of the Master,
become released soon from the transmigratory process.
Thus, through the discipline of sense and mind-control,
you will behold the Deity that resides in your heart.

The Refrain is 'Bhaja Govindam,Bhaja Govindam ,Bhaja Govindam Mooda mathe'!

So,it is quite clear what Sri Sankara has said.

Namaskar.