Author Topic: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?  (Read 2388 times)

Kicsi108

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Namaste,

I have just read this in "The Path of Sri Ramana":

"After sitting for some time in His presence, a devotee
asked Sri Bhagavan, “Bhagavan, I am not able to do Selfenquiry.
I find it difficult. Shall I do dhyana instead ?” “All
right”, replied Sri Bhagavan. Soon afterwards the devotee
left the hall, whereupon Sri Bhagavan turned to those near
Him and said, “He says that Self-enquiry is difficult for him
and that he cannot do it, so he asks me for permission to
do dhyana. How can I compel him to do Self-enquiry when
he himself says that he cannot do it? So when he wants to
do dhyana, I have to say ‘All right’. He may come tomorrow
and say, ‘Bhagavan, my mind does not remain in dhyana,
so shall I do japa?’ Again I will have to say ‘All right’. In the
same manner, he will one day complain, ‘My mind does not
remain quietly in japa. Only my tongue spells the mantra,
but my mind wanders on many things. Shall I do worship
(puja), recite hymns (stotras ! and so on?’ What else can I
do except to say All right, all right’ in reply to each and
every complaint? If one is able to make a sincere effort to
practise anything, whether recitation of hymns, japa,
dhyana or any other sadhana, one can, with the same effort,
practise Self-enquiry ! All these complaints are made only
by those who do not earnestly like to do any sadhana, that’s
all. What is essential in any sadhana is to try to bring back
the running mind and fix it on one thing only’. Why then
should it not be brought back and fixed in Self-attention?
That alone is Self-enquiry (alma-vichara). That is all that is
to be done!
"
 
I would like to read your thoughts, insights on this excerption - especially on the part quoted in bold.

Thank you in advance.

Arunachala Shiva

Jewell

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 04:57:07 AM »
Dear Kicsi108,

I completely agree with this quote from Bhagavan. I also believe that all can practice selfenquiry,if they want,sure. It is simple logical. We all try,in one way or another,to avoid ourself. I think thats.main reason of everything. I believe,if we are serious in threading any path,and completely absorbed in what we do,it is bound to give results. That is applyable in any matters. Complete dedication.

And that indeed is selfenquiry,Self atention. Nothing else. And it is most natural way.

With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 05:27:52 AM by Jewell »

Nagaraj

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 11:32:24 AM »
If one is able to make a sincere effort to
practise anything, whether recitation of hymns, japa,
dhyana or any other sadhana, one can, with the same effort,
practise Self-enquiry ! All these complaints are made only
by those who do not earnestly like to do any sadhana, that’s
all. What is essential in any sadhana is to try to bring back
the running mind and fix it on one thing only’. Why then
should it not be brought back and fixed in Self-attention?
That alone is Self-enquiry (alma-vichara). That is all that is
to be done!
"

Dear Sri Kicsi108,

You have posted a very important post. the whole point rests in this - "If one is able to make a sincere effort to practise anything" The fact would be we are definitely not 100%, even stalwart devotees who were very close to Bhagavan expressed their difficulty. Hence it is wise and common sense to complement our main Sadhana (what ever it may be, self enquiry or other) with other sadhanas that anchor the sadhaka. We are all no different from the case as mentioned above. We may profess to say, Self Enquiry is enough, being still is enough and so on, but if we see closely, we will be quite far from it. Therefore, even if we are not doing Self Enquiry, it is best to practice some other discipline at least rather than just expend ourselves purposelessly, talking about the glory of Self and Enquiry and so on. A good staple discipline, all-round disciple is very much essential.

Bhagavan also practiced Bhiksha, begging food, living an austere life, with just one cod piece. Lets leave Bhagavan, if we take the cases of Serious disciples, Muruganar, Annamalai Swami, or the disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, all practiced a living that complemented their main faith or sadhana. It would be a folly to ignore ourselves over all believing Self Enquiry would suffice, there is no need for any other disciplines.

When we are faced with such a situation, then our rational mind would begin playing games saying, logically, truly there is nothing else to do but being Still, Self Enquiry alone is truly enough! This is True, but, are we truly at it? Are we just over confident of ourselves? is it a fact about ourselves? Are we so steadfast? Therefore a sincere Sadhaka has to be honest with oneself, if not with anybody else, he will discern, yes, Self Enquiry is sum and substance of all Sadhanas put together, truly speaking Self Enquiry alone would suffice, but yet, i discern and realise that in those times, when I am bored? from self enquiry or need a break from self enquiry, when the mind is loosened and demands for some fun, then we need to see objectively, are we now steadfast to bring back the mind back to Self Enquiry? pursue back to the source? we will not be.

Hence, we need to carefully study ourselves, and train ourselves with other sadhanas as well, when we are not in a frame of state to continue Self Enquiry. IT is practical and common sense to have a regular routine of other disciplines and it does not mean rejecting Self Enquiry, it is merely discerning ourselves and offering ourselves practical solutions to better ourselves so that in time, we will be able to spend more and more quality time in Self Enquiry than now, slowly, when one is master, one will be able to perform Self Enquiry for most party of the waking time.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 01:05:52 PM »


Any Sadhana can be successful only when the efforts towards it is continuous and with great perseverance.  The people
are afraid of Self Inquiry, because here the mind is lost. People think mind loss means going mad. It is not so. However
if one is not able to do even in dhyana or japa with mind constantly towards (here there is no fear of mind loss),  then
he may not be fit for anything spiritual in life. He can at best go for pilgrimages and temples as picnics.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 01:22:48 PM »
Sir just one thing, i would like to comment on your observation. I fet it was rather harsh to say persons visit temple being unfit as just for picnics. Everybody goes to temples and masjids hoping some good will also come their way also, someday. Visiting temples and gurus even with a picnic mindset also has its positive effects.

The question is if we are that perseverant ourselves, after all. Atleast those unfit people recognise their inability and do something atleast to better themselves, instead of nothing.

 ॐ
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 03:47:51 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
Annamalai Swami used to quote this verse of Thayumanavar:

மூர்த்திதலந் தீர்த்தம் முறையாய்த் தொடங்கினர்க்கோர்
வார்த்தைசொலச் சற்குருவும் வாய்க்கும் பராபரமே.

To them who commenceth in manner decreed - Worship of image, visit to temple And bathing in sacred waters -
The Holy Guru will of himself comeTo impart the Supreme Word of instruction,Oh Para Param!

Sometimes,I prefer to go to a quiet temple(Thiruvanmiyur temple) and enjoy the devotion of anonymous ,simple, lowly people.The way they call on God  and chant the Divine Hymns like Thevaram makes me spell bound.These are truly great devotees and we can learn what genuine devotion is from these lowly people.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 04:06:21 PM »
Sri Ravi,

I recollect my own, such small experiences of listening to some songs sung by such persons in a very low and melodious tone expecting absolutely nothing in some corner.

Such instances leave life long impressions on our hearts, their voices still echoing from within. I don't even remember the temples or the deities but i remember these persons, their voice, their attire and their stance, the place.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 04:10:17 PM »
Dear Ravi,

I agree with you. As Thayumanavar said only for those who start pilgimages and visit of temples, in an orderly manner, that is
with extreme devotion, not caring for comforts on the way, only for such person who will be having the boon of a guru's
appearance to guide them further.

What I was referring to in my post, only those who go to temples and pilgrimages as if these are picnics, without any serious
devotion in heart and contemplating God all along the way. I have seen many people in Asramam, where while standing for
lunch and dinner, talking about the following:

1. I think here one gets Achi MiLagai Podi and other Podis. We shall go to the bazaar this evening.

2. I am told handloom saris are comparatively cheaper here so we can go in the evening and buy some.

3. I am also told that tomatoes and brinjals are very cheap here.

Lucy Ma who heard this, (she knows Tamizh very well) said: Have you come to T'malai only for these things. Think of Sri
Bhagavan and Bhagavan only. If you want to talk these things, go outside the Asramam and talk these things.

Arunachala Siva.
         

Jewell

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 04:16:48 PM »
Dear friends,

I think that Sri Subramanian Sir never mentioned that going to temples is bad or persons who do it are unfit. I think he only made observation that to one who is not serious,even going to temples will be as going to picknik. The thought is that ego will find one way or another to avoid its death. At least,i see it that way.
Nothing wrong in doing anything which suits someone,or causes some peace,but the above quote of Bhagavan was the subject.

With love and prayers,

Nagaraj

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 04:18:21 PM »
just in good humor,   :) please do not mistake.

and in those moments, we also weren't thinking Bhagavan but were listening to conversations of some visitors and provide some free advice. Unfortunately i also do many time :(

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

atmavichar100

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 04:23:34 PM »
Dear Ravi,

I agree with you. As Thayumanavar said only for those who start pilgimages and visit of temples, in an orderly manner, that is
with extreme devotion, not caring for comforts on the way, only for such person who will be having the boon of a guru's
appearance to guide them further.

What I was referring to in my post, only those who go to temples and pilgrimages as if these are picnics, without any serious
devotion in heart and contemplating God all along the way. I have seen many people in Asramam, where while standing for
lunch and dinner, talking about the following:

1. I think here one gets Achi MiLagai Podi and other Podis. We shall go to the bazaar this evening.

2. I am told handloom saris are comparatively cheaper here so we can go in the evening and buy some.

3. I am also told that tomatoes and brinjals are very cheap here.

Lucy Ma who heard this, (she knows Tamizh very well) said: Have you come to T'malai only for these things. Think of Sri
Bhagavan and Bhagavan only. If you want to talk these things, go outside the Asramam and talk these things.

Arunachala Siva.
       

My Yoga Guru Swami Vishnu devananda ( who was a direct disciple of Swami Sivananda ) , narrated that when he was a young Sadhak in the Sivananda Ashram in Rishikesh , he found some people talking worldly things inside the Ashram and he immediately went to Swami Sivananda complaining about those people . He was expecting Swami Sivananda to appreciate him for being vigilant about such people and he was shocked when Swami Sivananda replied that "This Ashram is for such impure people to get purified and if you feel you are pure enough you can walk out of this Ashram "

Bhagwan Ramana also scolded people when they complained of others behavior in the Ashram saying "Attend to what you have come here for "

Later on Swami Vishnu devananda when he set up his Ashrams world over said that his Ashrams are like Dhobi Ghats where people come to purify themselves and while ensuring basic discipline in the Ashrams he advised the senior staffs to be quite tolerant towards people who exhibited such worldly behavior when they visited Ashrams as it is not possible for a person to make a 180 degree shift in his behavior in a single / few visits to an Ashram .


So next time when we visit a temple / ashram and find such worldly behavior by people ,instead of having an attitude of "Holier than thou" we must either remember Bhagwan's Advice "Attend to what you have come " or Swami Sivananda's Advice "If you are pure enough , you are not needed here "
   :)

Om Peace .
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:38:26 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Your thoughs about this excerption from The Path of Sri Ramana, please?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 04:42:46 PM »
Quote
Later on Swami Vishnu devananda when he set up his Ashrams world over said that his Ashrams are like Dhobi Ghats where people come to purify themselves and while ensuring basic discipline in the Ashrams he advised the senior staffs to be quite tolerant towards people who exhibited such worldly behavior when they visited Ashrams as it is not possible for a person to make a 180 degree shift in his behavior in a single / few visits to an Ashram .

Very true. Late Vedantist Prof. G. Balakrishnan sir used to jokingly say - Ashrams and temples are for impure souls. If you are pure, you are not needed here and you dont need them either :). Expecting only pure souls in temples and Ashrams is like saying - I expect only 100% healthy people in hospital. Criticizing them only adds to the ego of the self-proclaimed pure souls... We should rather spend time thinking of Bhagawan rather than watching and listening to what others are doing :)

Sanjay
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:47:14 PM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan