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Author Topic: Subject of Marriage  (Read 25348 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2013, 10:39:36 PM »
Dear Sri Jewel and friends,

Firstly i want to clarify this topic is really not about 'path' or change og paths oreven about marriage or bachelorhood being hindrance. I humbly request members to lindly read with a little more attention before conveying your views then it will be a fine discussion that truly benefits everybody. The topic is really carried out of its true purpose now, really.

Debunking other spiritual practices, did ramana say so? Why do we differentiate any spiritial discipline at all? 

patience is all yes, but in the pretext of patience is the key are each onr of us really striving with madness as uou havr observed? Am afraid not. Are we truly practicing self enquiry constantly? Am afraid not. Being still, to me is    bi-product of our sadhana, and not something that is practiced.

How much have we all reslly mastered our stomach, the cravings for food and taste, are we masters of our stomach? Are we masters of our mind? Do we not watch television, are we not instigated by mere arguements even here or whrn we see newspapers and television? Have we mastered them. Have we mastered the dependence on money people telationships love and others? Where do we stand we need to be fair. Have we genuienly taken steps to transcend these defaults in us? Have we all mastered our bodies, and sensual cravings? Dont we want to enjoy an occassional movie, fun  etc

I do not see we are truly performing self enquiry as the only sadhana, if bhagawan meant self enquiry alone is enough it should unsaid be understood that one is already very close renunciate meaning one has truly givrn himself in working out ones external hsbits. How much dependent are we on money, promotoons and job?

We need to reassess truly well of ourselves. Other spiritual diaciplines include monitoring these aspects, and they are not counter to self enquiry.

We have to face it, we need to.afopt certain changes.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2013, 10:42:21 PM »
Posted from mobile, spelling, language excuse pls
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2013, 11:06:49 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I truly dont know about others and it is not my concern. All i am saying,is comming from my experience only. I can live without fun,without television,movies,etc. I dont care about money or about sensual plesures. I only cannot live without love. But that was all happening becouse of self enquiry. With time,with constant trying to Abide in the Self,that Abindance must increace.
But,i love life,and if tomorow i have idea to have fun,i will have fun. Why not? Do i need to beat myself to death for the sake of spirituality?! I cant live without fun,and in the same time i am torturing myself because i dont want to want it. How sick is that! What am i,sadist! I dont want to led go this person,but i want Immortality with it. How ambitious! If i cant leave my passions,then i cant. Period. He whi gave me will need to bear me just like this. Coz i am what i am. He made me luke this.
And even that is nonsence. There is no me. Only that we need to drop. With it all else goes. Drop or not,it is like it is. All this is just ego playing,nothing more.
Everything is anyway in His hands. If i need to play,then i will play.  Nothing other is not left. It is the dream anyway.
And i dont mean,let become clowns and going crazy,but to do what ever is felt it need to be done.

I dont know if You understood,i hope You did.

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2013, 11:20:39 PM »
Nagaraj/Jewell/Friends,
Who is Guru?Guru is not an 'individual' .Guru ,God, Self are synonymous.I wish to share this wonderful excerpt from 'The Human Gospel of Sri Ramana maharshi' by V Ganesan.Ganesan,as we know is the Grandson of Chinna Swami,and has had the benefit of growing up in Bhagavan's presence.
Here is the Excerpt:
"In 1960, I moved to Ramanashram. I worked diligently at Ashram duties but I was not completely happy. I couldn‘t put my finger on what was missing, and how I could be more fulfilled. Though I received a lot of well-meaning advice from peers at the Ashram, I was simply not fulfilled. My Teacher, T. K. Sundaresa Iyer then said to me, ―If you are not satisfied with our advice, then you should go and get it from an acknowledged jnani.‖ He then directed me to Papa Ramdas of Kanghangad in Kerala, who in turn sent me to his spiritual heir, a saint called Krishna Bai or Maatha ji.
I asked her, ―How should I serve my Master? What is my practice?‖ She replied, ―Old devotees of Bhagavan have already left the Ashram. Go bring them back, attend to them, and serve them until their last day. This is your service, your life. It is your Seva.‖ I was taken aback. I had closely studied Eastern and Western philosophy. Nowhere had I heard of serving the guru‘s devotees as a form of practice. She added, ―Another important hurdle is that since you are related to Ramana Maharshi, everybody will tell you and treat you like you are already liberated. They will tell you that according to the Hindu scriptures, a realized Master‘s relatives are already realized beings. Seven generations preceding and the subsequent seven generations are supposedly free of karma. Be here now. It is a golden chain into the non-existent past. It is a lie. You must earn your bread—your spiritual bread. God is absolutely impartial. You are to practice Ramana Maharshi‘s teachings, so pursue Self-Enquiry for your Self.‖
Overwhelmed by the magnitude of the task before me, I shed tears, ―Mother, I am leaving, and you will be far away!‖ ―I am going to guide you,‖ she reassured me. ―You are six hundred miles away from me! How are you going to guide me?‖ I looked at her questioningly. She replied, ―Don‘t worry about that. I will be guiding you every moment.‖ (Sure enough, I can palpably feel her guidance even now.)

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2013, 11:22:39 PM »
Nagaraj/Jewell/Friends,

Who is a Guru ....continued....

Here are a few interesting and instructive observations.
1.T K Sundaresa Iyer is a direct disciple and devotee of Sri Bhagavan and had grown up in Bhagavan's presence as a Boy.(At The Feet of Bhagavan will clearly bring out the Depth of his devotion and intimacy and knowledge of Sri Bhagavan's teachings).What did he tell Ganesan?Did he ask him to stick to Bhagavan as Guru?NO!
Instead he advised him:"then you should go and get it from an acknowledged jnani" and sent him to papa Ramdas who in turn directs him to his disciple Mataji Krishnabai!
2.How many links here? Four links in the chain -Sri Bhagavan-TKS-Papa Ramdas-Mataji Krishnabai!Yet Guru is one Only!
The Key thing is that when a Disciple is not in a position to establish a connection  with the inner Guru or God or Self,He definitely needs the guidance of a Living Guru-Living Guru means 'outer Guru' .We cannot get sentimental and feel scandalized and say -'Well,Bhagavan is there as a Living guru.Why look for another Guru'-We also need to understand who this 'Bhagavan' is.
If Bhagavan is the Self,certainly the 'Living Guru'(the outer one with a different Name and Form)is also the Self.With this 'outer Guru' ,we can express our difficulty and get it sorted out.This is certainly a wise thing to do and one need not feel that one has 'Switched' guru.
3.This is why Sri Ramakrishna Makes it clear over and over again:
"Satchidananda alone is the Guru. If a man in the form of a guru awakens spiritual consciousness in you, then know for certain that it is God the Absolute who has assumed that human form for your sake".
4.Did not Ganesan acknowledge the guidance from Mataji Krishnabai?He does in a most grateful manner.In fact there is more to the story than what is posted here.Ganesan was at the 'crossroad' and was contemplating a life of celibacy.His brothers had got married.He was totally unsure about what the future and whether he could continue in his path of celibacy and dedicate himself fully to spiritual Living.Mataji gave him the assurance that he will live the life of a celibate and blessed him with a prophecy-'The Moment that he completes his service to the devotees of Bhagavan(He played a big role in taking care of them until their mahasamadhi which he handled deftly by having their bodies interned in the ashram compound),you will be free from the Responsibilities of running the ashramam'.This is exactly how it turned out to be.After the mahasamadhi of Ramasami pillai,Ganesan handed over charge to his brother and left the ashramam.He now lives in his home near Yama lingam,in Tiruvannamalai.
There is thus a Big difference between what we practice from the Books and what direct guidance from a 'Living Guru' can accomplish,so to say.All the same,one need not feel diffident on this score;if there is earnestness and Faith,patience and Steadiness as jewell has beautifully put it-one may draw upon Grace to lift oneself into its fold.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2013, 11:36:55 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Just to add,all what i have said is something i am telling to myself. That is my thoughys based on all my pondering. It reveals my adressing to myself. I realised that my very search is based on selfishness only. Why i want Immortality? Because i want lasting happiness and pleasures. Would i wont it,if i didnt realised they are trancient,and not permanent. No. Why should i. Sure,it is ment to happen,for the simple reason this individual is nonexistent,and whole life and death illusion only. So,search is bound to happen one day. The Perfect Reality is shrinking on one not existent entity,sure it is ment to be brocken.
But,my own reasons are ego reasons only. I realised i never wanted extinction,but eternal life,a happy one. There lies paradox. I want all that,but i know i need to be without desires and wantings,and then i am strugling with it. The one who is himself desire wants to be desireless,wants to be perfect. Can it? Or it just need to see his nonexistence.

With love and prayers,

Jewell

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2013, 11:56:23 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

All what i have said have ameaning only in context of what is said,in all. You certainly right about Guru,but like i said,my point is all what i wrote in general. Looking only fragment of it loses the meaning i wanted to convey. And it is subtle. Anyway,it is beautiful post You have posted.
Also,i didnt mention marriage or celibacy anywhere,it is the question of intimacy,and very private one,and for me,not truly important for the spirituality in general. I dont think we can chose anything against Gods wish. It is against very nature of Maya and God. All chose what they want and must.

What i wrote is adressing Sri Nagaraj's previous post.

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2013, 12:31:20 AM »
Nagaraj/Jewell/Friends,
Bhagavan's life itself is a Great teaching;if we examine how he lived his life in the ashramam,we will see that all the best of traditional wisdom is upheld.I have to differ with our friend Jewell here-Bhagavan clearly upheld all the Best in Traditional wisdom-Right till today,there is Veda parayana ,there is a GO-shala in the ashramam,there is a Meru Chakra installed and empowered by Bhagavan in Matru bhuteswara temple,there is Traditional puja performed to Ramaneswara Mahalingam as well as Matrubhuteswara,there is poor feeding.
There is no other way it can be.Sri Bhagavan never advocated self-enquiry as an 'exclusive Practice';he did admit all other practices like puja, Japa,Dhyana-and gave them their due place depending on the predeliction and need of seekers.He did translate Major works of Adi Sankara like vivekachudamani and atma Bodha.
It is indeed true that he gave self-enquiry as a direct path;yet it can in no way be said that he debunked the Traditional approach or its values.His appalam song clearly brings out his upholding all the elements and prerequisites for sadhana.
In fact,the fundamentals of sense-restraint,Disciplined and balanced living are something that just cannot be de-emphasized and debunked.Whosoever does it cannot be Guru,however intelligent he or she be.It is indeed unfortunate that a lot of neo advaitic nonsense is finding favour -and the worst thing is the belittling of this wonderful Life and Living as a 'Dream' as 'unreal' etc  and yet having a soft corner for all creature comforts and luxuries!This sort of pseudo spirituality is truly a danger as it totally runs counter to the affirmation of the Life in spirit.
Life has to be lived in right earnest and the Vedic wisdom always have upheld living a full 100 years in the plenitude of wisdom and Love.
I fully concur with our friend nagaraj here that more care and attention needs to be paid to the fundamentals of spiritual living;this just cannot be ignored or avoided.
Namaskar.
 

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2013, 12:39:25 AM »
Jewell,
I have posted on the 'Guru' on a as is where is basis.I have not 'responded or reacted' to what you have posted.I had thought of posting this earlier in the day but got hold of the material only now.It has nothing at all to do with what you have posted now.
My previous post where I have commented on the Traditional approach viz a viz Bhagavan's self enquiry is the one I have posted in response to your post.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2013, 12:48:21 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Why Bhagavan held traditional practices is very questionable. Many do that because is simple smart thing to do. It brings more people,they more easily have trust in such a Guru,and people simple get whst they want and need. Belief that something will helo is essential. It doasnt have anything with the Truth. I am not against traditional approach. That is not the meaning of my post.
And about discipline and restraint i dont want to talk. I will talk about it with the one who lives that kind of life. Only with that kind of man. Who is himself capable to stand behind that with His own exsample. If someone can show me such a man,and not to be a sage,or a lifeless stone,i will listen very cafefully. Sur,they are some exceptions.
Anyway,that wasnt also a point! So i will leave this disscution here!

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2013, 01:04:06 AM »
Jewell,
I have posted in an impersonal way and purely in objective fashion.It is not meant to disrespect your view point or you as a person.You may choose to ignore it if it does not please you.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2013, 01:54:46 AM »
Jewell/Friends,
Quote
I realised i never wanted extinction,but eternal life,a happy one. There lies paradox. I want all that,but i know i need to be without desires and wantings,and then i am strugling with it. The one who is himself desire wants to be desireless,wants to be perfect. Can it? Or it just need to see his nonexistence.

Yes,this is the paradox.How to reconcile Freedom with Discipline?This is an interesting topic.
Logically,if there is no 'I',then all associated problems ,paradoxes cease!Is advaitic solution then the only definitive one?Does it mean that the other schools of Visishtadvaitic or Dvaitic systems are intrinsically flawed ?Then how come the Great ones who championed them could have said what they did?Were they mistaken?Did they mislead their followers?To me,the answer is an emphatic NO!This may not be an appropriate thread for this discussion,but nevertheless the interesting thing is that in all the three schools or Philosophical systems,the Fundamentals of spiritual Living are the same!We may examine it in the Rough Note book thread,if we are interested.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2013, 08:11:28 AM »
udai,
It is upto you to evaluate where you are,who and what you are.This is all that I can say.Anything subjective is suspect;more when the subjective element is thrown outwardly for display.

I would like you to examine your statement:
Quote
Ofcourse both the people have to have maturity ... otherwise a buddha may love angulimala , but angulimala still tries only to hit

What happened to Angulimal?Love is a wonderful thing and not just angulimal,but even a Ravana will respond to it.This is what connecting with the whole of Life means.
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Some friends said to Ravana: You have been assuming different forms for Sita . Why don't
you go to her in the form of Rama?' Ravana replied: 'When I contemplate Rama, even the
position of Brahma appears insignificant to me, not to speak of the company of another
man's wife! How could I take the form of Rama for such a purpose?'

If we are in Rama,even Ravana will respond.

Let me put it the other way.To find out where we are,just get a feedback from one's wife and children or other kith and kin.What do they have to say?This should tell the actual story.Ofcourse,I do not mean that they will be in a position to divine the state of your mind;yet definitely they will be in a position to state whether your understanding of them  is adequate or not.This 'Harmony' is a clear sign of your progress.This is the one and only objective Yardstick.All other things are dabbling in Mysticism only.Nothing more.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2013, 08:24:10 AM »
Friends,
In a lighter vein:
A Man was going around claiming to his friends,'I know the Chief Minister'.
One acquaintance asked;'We would like to know whether the Chief Minister knows you' :)

Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2013, 08:32:00 AM »
Friends,
This is what Sage Tiruvalluvar says:

ஈதல் இசைபட வாழ்தல் அதுவல்லது
ஊதியம் இல்லை உயிர்க்கு

Giving(of oneself)and living in Harmony;Other than this
There is no nourishment for the soul.

Namaskar