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Author Topic: Subject of Marriage  (Read 24109 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2013, 09:29:56 AM »
Dear Sri Vinod,

I am unmarried & not sure were my destiny takes me on this. Some times I feel difficult to follow the quest of spirituality & however try my level best to be on it. When I was not spiritual I was not concerned of any thing & used to do any thing with out a second thought but now even though some times I cannot control my sences but still I give a second thought wether to do a thing or not.

I agree on a point which u have made, that it becomes routine for us coming to this forum & forget to implement what we learn from here or take it forward. It all depends on us & how serious are we, so it is a personal quest & how commited one is. However even if it becomes a routine exercise it acts as a reminder or a wake up call at times. I am so thank ful to this forum that what ever spirituality I have gained, its only through this platform with the sympathy & grace of Arunaachala & our master.

I would just like to express some of my thoughts. Firsty, I came to understand, that what has already happened, were the results of our prarabdha, there  is no way we can think about our past, what we did in the past, has brought us to where we are now. I believe, we have the wisdom to chose our course of actions now, for the ultimate good with the help of scriptures and the words of Gurus. Also, it is only our past good actions or deeds that only bring us near even such a light, otherwise we will be one among everybody, moving about just existing away the life.

Life has to be lived, and consciously, as we have been bestowed with the power of discrimination, so we have the ability to discriminate. IT is very important to sit and carefully look at your life at this juncture, as it is these few years that will decide the course of your future. It is common in families to start looking for marriage when the boy or girl is around the primal age (Pls read Sri Ravi's posts, he has covered the subtle points, so appropriate) the boy or girl also, imagine, yes, everybody get married, so i should also get married and things eventually take shape thus.

One has to ponder about marriage, find out what marriage really is, what are the true commitments of marriage, the responsibilities towards one's spouse, how the life is going to take shape, what is the purpose, what is the common goal, what should be the ideals and so on. Majority of marriages taking place today is simply marriage of convinience, the ironically, the primary ideal being earning, reproducing, working, sending kids to school, buying house, and saving for retired life, and once retirement comes, people do not seem to have a clue as to what to do, how to pass time, and i have seen so many brood saying i have wasted my youth, i got so many opportunities to learn vedas, spiritual wisdom came ringing towards me, but i did not recognise the importance of that. I was more eager to flourish in life, earn money, build luxury, name, and so on. These days, people openly say that their first kid was just accident, its really shocking, the world is so unconsciously living, just existing.

Secondly, if you are deeply spiritual, you are obliged to think twice and thrice before getting married, and really take extreme patience and communicate with great clarity what is your purpose of life is to the girl who is getting married and even if it takes time, it is best to get married to one who is atleast wiling to be supportive to a moderate extent if not completely. Without taking such points into considerations, if you get married to some girl whose horoscope matches with yours, then the entire life will be a compromise, but turns out to be a great life teacher.

On the other hand, if you truly feel, you are not inclined to lead a married life, prefer the life of solitude, you have to think twice thrice and even much more, firstly, I believe you must take your parents into confidence, mostly from your mother. Mother's acceptance is the ultimate word. Sort out the matter with your parents, explain patiently about your purposes and slowly you can make them understand. But then even after you get their acceptance, it is not done yet, you have to sort your own life from here. What are you going to do. How are you going to lead your life, you need to be anchored in the proper way and also require tapas, these things, you must slowly discern and make your way out, and remembering your parents on hand as well.

Another point of importance is, indecision is curse, if you feel you are spiritually inclined and have less or no interest in worldly life and get married, it would be a grave injustice done upon the girl whom you will marry who will have atleast some aspirations, if she is not yet deeply spiritual. while you may have no interest in money luxury life and your spouse having reasonable flare for all the wonderful things of life, this is very bad, this should not happen, else you must be spiritually strong enough to earn money just for the sake of your spouse, reasonably do justice to the marriage.

What are the options if you are not married, you can remain brahmacharya life long, naishtika brahmacharya, or sanyasam. What kind of life are these, you need to acquaint further from reliable source. We all need Physical Guru. Only one is million may not need, Rarest of rare was Bhagavan. Muruganar, Annamalai Swami and many others came running towards Bhagavan, did they not have enough knowledge, did Muruganar who drank the nectar of Bhagavan's teachings still required the presence of Bhagavan. So, we must also not fall to the "knowledge Trap" I have always believe that even Ignorance trap can be escaped slowly, but knowledge trap is very very tough!

Long back when Abdul Kalam was president, in an interview, the interviewer addressed him as a bachelor, Dr Kalam took quick notice and corrected him saying, don't say I am a bachelor, I am brahmacharya. There is a huge difference between the two. There is no purpose living a bachelor life, but one must aspire to live the life of Brahmacharya if unmarried.

I know of many to are unmarried, who are good people, but are just existing it away. The aspiration aimed should be God.

These, i have very generally mentioned, there are very many subtle points which one needs to carefully discern oneself.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 09:32:23 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #61 on: February 11, 2013, 09:45:30 AM »
Another point, which i forgot to mention is unsaid understood, however,

if we recklessly decide not to marry in order to lead a spiritual life and later we find ourselves neither here nor there is the worst of worst thing that can happen.

This is tricky and yet very important point of life. One has to be very careful.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2013, 10:06:27 AM »
Talking about Sanyasis, there are also certain set of people who dont want to take any responsibilities & as an excuse adopt an option called Sanyasi. My nephew, he is the only son to his parents who r financially very weak & he did not study well, doesnt do any work & reads all the mythological/spiritual books & preaches his parents not to eat non veg & other things & fails his primary responsibilities being a son.

My friends Uncle is a married guy, also had kids but after few years of married life he left his family & now lives somewhere near parvathamalai hills as a sadhu. So there are certain set of people who adopt spirituality(as an excuse) & become sanyasi to escape from the worldly responsibility.

I wanted to express on the above concerns. There are many who criticize even Buddha, Raghavendra for they left left their wives and small kid in the lurch and became a Sadhu. Perhaps it is not that easily observed in Buddha or Raghavendra because they are famous.

But the truth is, i heard from some wise person is this, that upon extreme dispassion and with the taste of yathartham (fact) they realise  that they are absolutely helpless to care for their family, it is this profound wisdom that makes them leave their family, as they realise what they truly are, unsaid (nothing!)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

silentgreen

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2013, 10:19:29 AM »
d: Shall I marry?

cguru: You know yourself. What is your deepest aspiration will prevail whether you are married or not. Whatever helps that, try to pursue that path.

d: umm...I am still not able...you know me very long, why don't you suggest?

cguru: Then listen to this story and decide. A son who was spiritually minded after his studies wrote to his parents that he wont return and taking a job live a contemplative life. The parents by trick brought him home somehow and took him to a party to socialize. The son stood in a corner since he was not accustomed to all these neither liked such environment. The parents said that you go around and ask normal question like "are you married?", "how many children do you have?" etc.

The son went to a lady.
son: Are you married?
lady1: Yes
son: How many children do you have?
lady1: Two, one boy, one girl
son: Nice, so what are they studying ....etc etc... and the conversation went on for 15 minutes.

After the initial success the son was enthused and went to another lady.
son: Are you married?
lady2: No
son: How many children do you have?
lady: (Angrily) Whaaat?

The son realised his confusion and somehow escaped. He then went to another lady.

son: How many children do you have?
lady3: Four
son: Are you married?
The lady shouted, gathered some people and threw the son out of the party.

The son thought: if this is my condition before marriage, what will be my condition after marriage. Let me return to my own life.

d: Oh! my god
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2013, 10:25:04 AM »
Dear Silentgreen,

I wonder how you craft out such excellent conversations :D It is definitely fit to be published as a book!

d: Shall I marry?

cguru: You know yourself. What is your deepest aspiration will prevail whether you are married or not. Whatever helps that, try to pursue that path.

Brilliantly put!

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #65 on: February 11, 2013, 11:17:51 AM »
vinod/Nagaraj/friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Are father and mother mere trifles? No spiritual practice will bear fruit unless they are
pleased. Chaitanya was intoxicated with the love of God. Still, before taking to the
monastic life, for how many days did he try to persuade his mother to give him her
permission to become a monk! He said to her: 'Mother, don't worry. I shall visit you every
now and then.'
(To M., reproachfully) "And let me say this to you. Your father and mother brought you up.
You yourself are the father of several children. Yet you have left home with your wife. You
have cheated your parents. You have come away with your wife and children, and you feel
you have become a holy man. Your father doesn't need any money from you; otherwise I
should have cried, 'Shame on you!
'"
Everybody in the room became grave and remained silent.
MASTER: "A man has certain debts to pay: his debts to the gods and rishis, and his debts
to mother, father, and wife. He cannot achieve anything without paying the debt he owes to
his parents. A man is indebted to his wife as well. Harish has renounced his wife and is
living here. If he had left her unprovided for, then I should have called him an abominable
wretch
.
"After attaining Knowledge you will regard that very wife as the manifestation of the
Divine Mother Herself. It is written in the Chandi, 'The Goddess dwells in all beings as the
Mother.' It is She who has become your mother.
"All the women you see are only She, the Divine Mother. That is why I cannot rebuke even
Brinde, the maidservant. There are people who spout verses from the scriptures and talk
big, but in their conduct they are quite different. Ramprasanna is constantly busy procuring
opium and milk for the hathayogi. He says that Manu enjoins it upon man to serve the
sadhu. But his old mother hasn't enough to eat. She walks to the market to buy her own
groceries. It makes me very angry
.
Through divine love man transcends his worldly duties
"But here you have to consider another thing. When a man is intoxicated with ecstatic love
of God, then who is his father or mother or wife? His love of God is so intense that he
becomes mad with it. Then he has no duty to perform. He is free from all debts. What is
this divine intoxication? In this state a man forgets the world. He also forgets his own body,
which is so dear to all
. Chaitanya had this intoxication. He plunged into the ocean not
knowing that it was the ocean. He dashed himself again and again on the ground. He was
not aware of hunger, of thirst, or of sleep. He was not at all conscious of any such thing as
his body."

Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #66 on: February 11, 2013, 08:02:29 PM »
Udai garu

Your posts are a bit harsh - but I like them ;) - you know why? They carry subtle messages that stand on their own feet without needing any quotes, stories, jnanis shoulders to lean on to. And truth is that which can stand alone on its own feet without needing supporters.

-Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

deepa

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #67 on: February 11, 2013, 08:06:35 PM »
vinod/Nagaraj/friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
"Are father and mother mere trifles? No spiritual practice will bear fruit unless they are
pleased.

Ravi-ji,
I have not read the Gospel (though I have read some of the Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda). These are so simple, yet so profound.

Regarding the quote above regarding mother/father, how much does one balance keeping them pleased versus our sadhana. For e.g., we visit India for about 3-4 weeks which is split between both sets of parents. I usually want to take 2-4 days visiting TVmalai and Kanchipuram.

I realize place is not important, but at this stage of my growth, I believe it is very important for me to "recharge" at both these places. I also believe it is very important for my children to imbibe this early on (there is difference of opinion on this also in the family). Since my children also learn music and know stories, I love taking them to our temples in Tanjore/Kumbakonam area also. Since my in-laws are not spiritually bent, this annual trip causes such agitation among all of us (also between me and my husband since I crave this visit more than he does).

I understand they want to spend time with us and kids. But I feel like while we should do our duty to parents, but not at the expense of our sadhana. I am not able to avoid the pull of Bhagawan and also meditating in Periyava's samadhi. When I visit, I am able to detach from even that agitation and also come back to a renewed commitment for sadhana. Though I also realize they will be upset.

Is there a way to handle this at all?



atmavichar100

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #68 on: February 11, 2013, 09:29:34 PM »
Quote
I understand they want to spend time with us and kids. But I feel like while we should do our duty to parents, but not at the expense of our sadhana. I am not able to avoid the pull of Bhagawan and also meditating in Periyava's samadhi. When I visit, I am able to detach from even that agitation and also come back to a renewed commitment for sadhana. Though I also realize they will be upset.

Is there a way to handle this at all?

Dear Deepaji

It is a very tricky situation balancing the views of the husband/in-laws along with one's personal sadhana ( i.e here visiting the Samadhi Shrine of Bhagwan Ramana and Kanchi Maha Swamigal etc ) . I suggest you appeal directly  to both these Mahans themselves to find out a way for you that helps u achieve what you want without upsetting your in-laws and husband . God , Gurus bless the deep and sincere prayers of their devotees .

Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

deepa

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #69 on: February 11, 2013, 09:56:56 PM »

Thanks, atmavicharji.

I have cried in surrender.. spent all my tears last year on my inability to handle work/life as well as my "perceived" poor progress in sadhana (unable to meditate, losing patience, etc). My swamiji (from our local Chinmaya mission) has guided me to get out of that spiral and move on, by not giving place for any negative emotions towards others and myself. It has made a big change in my spiritual studies.

While earlier I would have been irritated with in-laws, family, etc, now, I am more compassionate - everybody has their own journey and their own pace. I have to surrender to Bhagawan and my guru to guide me through day-to-day decisions.

However, I still am caught between sadhana and samsara (which I guess is a good reason for this thread itself!)
When I gave up silk (and my daughter followed me), I made my mother "sad". When I refuse to eat certain foods, I make friends "sad". When I follow certain sadhana practices/values, I make my family "sad".

So, a general question, I have is - we can definitely deal with others' "needs" with compassion/sense of duty, but do we have to give into others' "wants"? With the understanding of happiness that we have, is it necessary to expend ourselves to keep all around us "happy"?




Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #70 on: February 11, 2013, 10:47:24 PM »
Deepa,
I fully appreciate your earnestness and deep interest in laying a sound spiritual foundation for your children.You are truly blessed,being devoted to Kanchi Mahaperiyava and Sri Bhagavan.
I do understand how important and helpful it is for you to recharge and 4 days out of a 3-4 week stay in Tamil nadu is quite a reasonable time allotment for all concerned.
As I understand,your question is
1.where to draw the line when it comes to duty towards our parents?Just what is meant by Pleasing them,as Sri Ramakrishna has said?
2.How to minimize conflict?Not just in this situation but in any situation.

We can only express our Love and take care of their physical needs in terms of monetary aid if need be,take their blessings-The Key thing is not to be indifferent to their needs and estrange them.We cannot make others 'Happy'-that clearly is not in our hands but we certainly should not be the cause of their unhappiness.This we can avoid by not losing our temper and enter into heated exchange.This in itself will minimize the conflict.
The calmer and composed we are ,the lesser will be the opposition from any quarter.

Ultimately what we sow,we reap and if we stay positive and wish others well,the same thing comes back to us.The other persons are not the cause but they are just conduits through which whatever has to reach us reaches us.The moment we understand this simple law,it becomes easier for us to assume responsibility for whatever we do and whatever the outcome;We stop blaming others and this automatically lessens conflict,and not just that,we start getting a positive response from all sides.With this responsibility comes empowerment as well.

Sadhana can go on all the while and every situation can be used to our advantage in removing the dross and fueling the inner fire.

I am happy that you found the excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna engaging and helpful.Here is another excerpt from The Gospel on the theme of our discussion:
The Master was told that now and then Ram cooked his own food at home.
MASTER (to M.): "Do you too cook your own meals?"
M: "No, sir."
MASTER: "You may try it. With your meals take a little clarified butter made from cow's
milk. That will purify your body and mind."
A long conversation ensued about Ram's household affairs. Ram's father was a devout
Vaishnava and worshipped Krishna daily at home. He had married a second time when
Ram was quite young. Both the father and the stepmother lived with Ram at Ram's house.
But Ram was never happy with his stepmother, and this sometimes created a
misunderstanding between himself and his father.
They were talking about this when Ram said, "My father has gone to the dogs!"
MASTER (to the devotees): "Did you hear that? The father has gone to the dogs and the
son is all right!"
RAM: "There is no peace when my stepmother comes home. There is always some trouble
or other. Our family is about to break up. So I say, let her live with her father."
GIRINDRA (to Ram): "Why don't you too keep your wife at her father's
home?" (Laughter)
MASTER (smiling): "Are husband and wife like earthen pots or jars, that you may keep the
pot in one place and the lid in another? Siva in one place and Sakti in another?"
RAM: "Sir, we are quite happy. But when she comes the family is broken up. If such is the
case-"
Our duties to father and mother
MASTER: "Then build them a separate home. That will be a different thing. You will
defray their monthly expenses. How worthy of worship one's parents are! Rakhal asked me
if he could take the food left on his father's plate. 'What do you mean?' I said. 'What have
you become that you cannot?' But it is also true that good people won't give anyone, even a
dog, the food from their plates."
GIRINDRA: "Sir, suppose one's parents are guilty of a terrible crime, a heinous sin?"
MASTER: "What if they are? You must not renounce your mother even if she commits
adultery. The woman guru of a certain family became corrupt. The members of the family
said that they would like to make the son of the guru their spiritual guide. But I said: 'How
is that? Will you accept the shoot and give up the yam? Suppose she is corrupt; still you
must regard her as your Ishta. "Though my guru visits the tavern, still to me he is the holy
Nityananda."

I will post some more excerpts from The Gospel that deals with this theme.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #71 on: February 11, 2013, 11:07:22 PM »
Deepa/Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Tarak of Belgharia arrived with a friend and bowed low before Sri Ramakrishna, who was
sitting on the small couch. The room was lighted by an oil lamp. A few devotees were
sitting on the floor.
Tarak was about twenty years old, and married. His parents did not allow him to come to
Sri Ramakrishna. He lived mostly at his home near Bowbazar. The Master was very fond of
him. Tarak's friend had a tamasic nature; he rather scoffed at the Master and religious ideas
in general.
MASTER (to Tarak's friend): "Why don't you go and visit the temples?"
FRIEND: "Oh, I've seen them before."
MASTER: "Is it wrong for Tarak to come here?"
FRIEND: "You know best."
MASTER (pointing to M.): "He is a headmaster."
FRIEND: "Oh!"
Master warns Tārak
Sri Ramakrishna asked about Tatak's health and talked with him at length. Tarak was ready
to leave. Sri Ramakrishna asked him to be careful about many things.
MASTER: "My good man, beware. Beware of 'woman and gold'. Once you sink in the
maya of a woman, you will not be able to rise. It is the whirlpool of the Visalakshi. He who
has fallen into it cannot pull himself out again. Come here now and then."
TARAK: "My people at home don't let me."
A DEVOTEE: "Suppose someone's mother says to him, 'Don't go to Dakshineswar.'
Suppose she curses him, saying, 'If you go there you will be drinking my blood!'"
MASTER: "A mother who says that is no mother; she is the embodiment of avidya. There
is no sin in disobeying such a mother. She obstructs her son's path to God. There is no harm
in disobeying your elders for the sake of God. For Rama's sake Bharat did not obey his
mother Kaikeyi. The gopis did not obey their husbands when they were forbidden to visit
Krishna. Prahlada disobeyed his father for God. Vali disregarded the words of Sukracharya,
his teacher, in order to please God. Bibhishana went against the wishes of Ravana, his elder
brother, to please Rama. But you must obey your elders in all other things
.

Sri Ramakrishna knew that tarak will renounce the world.He became Swami Shivananda,one of the monastic disciples of Sri Ramakrishna.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #72 on: February 11, 2013, 11:16:37 PM »
Deepa/Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Purification of mind
There is no use in merely making a noise if you want to establish the Deity in the shrine of
your heart, if you want to realize God. First of all purify the mind. In the pure heart God
takes His seat. One cannot bring the holy image into the temple if the droppings of bats are
all around. The eleven bats are our eleven organs: five of action, five of perception, and the
mind.
First of all invoke the Deity, and then give lectures to your heart's content. First of all dive
deep. Plunge to the bottom and gather up the gems. Then you may do other things. But
nobody wants to plunge. People are without spiritual discipline and prayer, without
renunciation and dispassion. They learn a few words and immediately start to deliver
lectures. It is difficult to teach others. Only if a man gets a command from God, after
realizing Him, is he entitled to teach.

Thus conversing, the Master came to the west end of the verandah. M stood by his side. Sri
Ramakrishna had repeated again and again that God cannot be realized without
discrimination and renunciation. This made M. extremely worried. He had married and was
then a young man of twenty-eight, educated in college in the Western way. Having a sense
of duty, he asked himself, "Do discrimination and dispassion mean giving up 'woman and
gold'?" He was really at a loss to know what to do.

M. (to the Master): What should one do if one's wife says: 'You are neglecting me. I shall
commit suicide?'
 
MASTER (in a serious tone): "Give up such a wife if she proves an obstacle in the way of
spiritual life. Let her commit suicide or anything else she likes. The wife that hampers her
husband's spiritual life is an ungodly wife."

Immersed in deep thought, M. stood leaning against the wall. Narendra and the other
devotees remained silent a few minutes. The Master exchanged several words with them;
then, suddenly going to M., he whispered in his ear: "But if a man has sincere love for God,
then all come under his control - the king, wicked persons, and his wife. Sincere love of
God on the husband's part may eventually help the wife to lead a spiritual life. If the
husband is good, then through the grace of God the wife may also follow his example."

This had a most soothing effect on M.'s worried mind. All the while he had been thinking:
"Let her commit suicide. What can I do?"


Namaskar.

deepa

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #73 on: February 11, 2013, 11:22:22 PM »
Ravi-ji
Very powerful story from the Gospel. For mahatmas, the "sin" was not visible.. they only saw the pure Atman. It is hard to do, but something I need to aspire for.

Swamiji also said what you suggested - be firm in your values, but always follow them with humility. As you say, I do avoid conflicts, try to explain as well as possible, try to do "prayaschitta" by doing something special for them. Inspite of that, if they feel "unhappiness", I leave that to Bhagawan.

Swamiji also says when you follow something strongly, people not following it get a uncomfortable feeling. So, I try to be as low-key as possible, but the draw of satsang is too strong!! (which is why even in the middle of a busy day at work, I try to visit this forum  :D)

Anyway, thanks to all of you for your valuable guidance.
Deepa






Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #74 on: February 11, 2013, 11:25:06 PM »
Deepa,
you may mail me .My email id is niveditahr@rediffmail.com
I wish to share a wonderful small book by Master TGN called இல்லற வாழ்க்கையில் இணக்கமும் இனிமையும்.TGN is a living jnAni and this book is a rare treasure that we gift to most couples and elders as well.
Namaskar.