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I am Married
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Author Topic: Subject of Marriage  (Read 24102 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 08:09:19 PM »
Udai,
I do not care for this sort of a revelling;It does not mean anything to me.I appreciate the Ranti deva type of revelling.True spirituality is not to impregnate oneself in some fortress and to pass through vicissitudes of life in an unassailable manner.It is to be connected to the whole of Life and this is the last word in spirituality.

This is what Sage Thayumanavar says so wonderfully:

தம்முயிர்போல் எவ்வுயிருந் தானென்று தண்ணருள்கூர்
செம்மையருக் கேவலென்று செய்வேன் பராபரமே!

When shall I do the biddings
Of the holy ones with compasssion filled,
Who hold all lives as their own?
Oh Para Param!

Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 08:15:36 PM »
Friends,

It is not something to be gained by doing something in some way or the other. I may not communicate it correctly. But you can be sure, whenever you get a thought that "I have to do it this way to get that since I am in this situation" - it is the big bloated "I" ego using its so-called amazing tools of brain and mind  which is saying this.

Yes - we can always quote two different great jnanis who may have made statements which  to our little ego's evaluation "seemingly" will be for or against this idea. But no doubt - Only ego will make you "work" to get "there". So does it mean - it involves no effort. My take is - Just try that and you will know that takes the biggest effort - to not do anything ("inside" not "outside"). "Finding a path that suits a situation" is a nice gimmick of ego. Ego says - "OK, So you are in so and so situation? We will find a path for you in this situation". 

I think there may be at least some readers in this forum who visit and read very regularly for years, but do not make any posts - and I envy them - because it is an amazing death of ego to not to have a pressing desire to respond / react to ideas which dont suit one. There the attachment to a path also dies, all efforts die and then the Grace inside starts leading you, per my humble opinion. As long as you feel, you can do something and gain this or that, Arunachala will let you play :) with your toys.

Pranamams to Arunachala - The Supreme Truth,
Sanjay
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 08:24:38 PM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2013, 08:51:07 PM »
Friends,
Uncertainty and ambiguity are the warp and woof of one's life on this earth.One does not even know what is driving one to wherever it does.One conveniently calls it Prarabdha and is satisfied that one has had a measure of what is happening!
Things being such,it is only earnestness that can provide a toe hold and one definitely needs to orient himself according to the best of Light available at his or her disposal.This will necessarily mean  due evaluation of all that one has experienced,all that others have experienced and the pros and cons of one approach over the other,etc.
To blame the poor 'ego' bloated or otherwise is just begging the question!We are the Ego and Ego alone.Let anyone dare say otherwise. :)
The 'Ego' is not a concept or an imaginary ghost to be exorcised;it is us and no degree of theory or abstraction or ratiocination is  going to eliminate it.Sadhana is for the ego and by the Ego only.All glory to the blessed ego. :)
As long as the Ego exists and cannot be denied or wished away,an appropriate path exists and it is only use of intelligence to determine the most appropriate means and methods  that is in order.One definitely needs to think over the momentous and irreversible decisions in life and cannot leave it to chance.
It is from this perspective that our friend Nagaraj's soul searching is quite appropriate and valid too.This sort of a decision has been taken by Swami Vivekananda ;he did deliberate between living a Royal Life viz a viz that of a Renunciant.It took some years for him to choose what ultimately he was destined to!So,I would say that our friend here is in good company.It is better to be deterministic than to be fatalistic and bank on prarabdha to carry one.What if prarabdha carries one to the wrong shore?
Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2013, 08:58:56 PM »
Quote
It is better to be deterministic than to be fatalistic and bank on prarabdha to carry one.What if prarabdha carries one to the wrong shore?

What are you banking on Prarabdha to take you? Where to? What is right shore and what is wrong shore? How did you determine there are two shores - why not more? As long as, the concept of two shores exists and you wanting to go to the right shore - yes - let us put in the effort to reach there till we realize supreme surrender is the only way. No - you are wrong when you say it is surrendering to fate or prarbdha. Surrendering to fate or prarabdha - internally you will rot. You will know it, You will feel it. But in supreme surrender you only have joy - immense joy. No shores to go. No path to take. Just be... birth comes.. death comes... just be...

NO more comments from me on this topic - so as to avoid any unnecessary deviations. Let me allow my friend Nagaraj garu to use the thread for the purpose he created it.

Arunachala Siva
Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2013, 09:20:20 PM »
sanjaya,
I am unable to make out what you have posted.
Namaskar.

deepa

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2013, 12:43:31 AM »

I went through these "supposed" frustrations caused in marriage. It seemed to me that my married life was coming in the way of spiritual progress. It seemed to cause agitations.

Swamiji said this perception is also only caused by ego. Ego aims for progress, gets frustrated with supposed "failures", gets elated with "supposed" progress, sets milestones. He said our situation in life, marriage, people around us, events are given only as a opportunity for us to find out the truth. Running away will not help us find the truth. (Nochurji also said similarly in Dakshinamurthy sthothram lecture)

For e.g., when we see a snake in the night, we can run away from it, but our fear will come again when we come near the path again. But if we go near the snake with a flashlight, first, we realize it is not a snake. Then, on further scrutiny, we realize that it is only a rope. Samsara (married life) is like that. You go near it/live it to understand first what is anatma, and then realize atma.

All the values mentioned in chapter 12 and chapter 13 can be practiced within grihastha life. (I was thinking of "asakthir anabhishvangah putra dhara grihadishu yesterday - how do you do your duty to family "asakthir" - without attachment and  "anabhishvangah" - with equipoise)


sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 05:47:29 AM »
Very Well written, Deepa. You are blessed.

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2013, 05:52:33 AM »
sanjaya,
I am unable to make out what you have posted.
Namaskar.

:) Vice versa. So best left there till Arunachala wills otherwise.

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2013, 07:06:35 AM »
Sanjaya,
If we understand the 'context' of this thread,we will be in a position to understand each other better.
I have posted in this thread a few posts,and these are designed to address the particular needs of a seeker within this context.I have done this consciously.I am quite familiar with each and every inch of this 'context' and have been at this 'Crossroad' and fully understand the dilemma that an earnest seeker will face.This is why I have recommended the Book,spiritual Practice by Swami Ashokananda.
This 'Dilemma' cannot be sorted out by any degree of general advice-it has to be handled by the seeker alone.This is how Ralph Waldo Emerson puts it:
Quote
There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried
The Earnest seeker faces this sort of a 'Half conviction,Half dilemma'-He definitely needs to see that he lives upto the full potential with which he is not yet fully acquainted;he needs to take care that he does not squander it away by a reckless choice or by following a routine beaten track mechanically.At the same time,he also needs to be wary that he does not overestimate his capacity to walk the path of a celibate and later on find himself in a quandry.
We cannot be citing the likes of Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Bhagavan and say -If we were like them-we would not have raised this topic in the First place!This is something that goes without saying,but this sort of a view is too over simplified and does not address the needs of this thread.
To marry or not to marry -This is a Big decision that an earnest seeker has to carefully consider.This is not a trivial question at all.This choice cannot be left to chance.It cannot be left to providence.
The needs of the one who is at the 'crossroads' are very  different  than the one who has already taken the plunge.For the one who has taken the plunge and finds himself wherever,it is easy to reconcile with it in a spirit of 'surrender'?Does he have any other choice?No!
Not the same for the one who is young and is carefully considering the Best route to God.Those who can remain single by choice(and not by default!)for God are  Blessed.They are like 'unpecked fruits',as Sri Ramakrishna says.Again as he says 'They are like warriors in the open'.
They do not have to slave for the sake of kith and kin.They do not have to serve God and mammon.Certainly that sort of a 'Freedom' and 'Surrender' is of a very tall order and is worthy of our highest adoration.No householder can measure upto that.
I have kept in view some of these thoughts in my posts in this thread.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2013, 08:40:10 AM »
Friends,
An excerpt from TGN's talk:
                                                    COMPULSION  FOR  MARRIAGE
There is an insect called mayfly which lives for less than 24 hours.  A mosquito has a life-span of two months and a rat runs about for two years.  These beings do all what a human does, expect going to school and college and earning a living.  They too hurry hither and thither for food, they too seek the company of the opposite sex and bring forth progeny like Xerox-copies !
Coming to think of it, two factors are overwhelmingly  present in the psyche of all living beings: (i) the instinct for survival even against odds; and (ii) the urge to ensure continuity of species.  It is for the first of these requirements that Nature has fitted out every being with sting or nails or teeth.  For fulfilment of the second need, certain hormones are generated at the appropriate age in the metabolic routine.  When there is hormonal imbalance of a particular order, a need would come to be felt for seeking the company of the other sex.  In beings on the lower scales of evolution up to animals, the urge abates once the hormonal balance is restored.Any surplus within the physical body is a burden that manifests as unrest; and the excretion of the surplus is experienced as pleasure by the mind although actually it is only relief.
The sixth sense is absent in lesser beings up to animals and they live by instinct.  The tiger, for instance ceases hunting for prey when its abdomen is filled for the day and it does not catch and store deer or sheep for the morrow and the days after.  So is their preoccupation with the opposite sex.
Man alone, of all living beings, has the sixth sense.  That is why the poet Alfred Lord Tennyson (1809-1892)- do even Professors of Literature remember him these days? – called man ‘the roof and crown of things’. The sixth sense is endowed to man by Nature so that he may embark on the inquiry to ascertain the purpose of life and devise ways and means to get that purpose fulfilled.  But, alas, the homo-sapien is putting the sixth sense to all uses except the primary purpose ! The thought of the transient pleasure of meeting the need to continue his own species is stored and remembered by the sixth sense which makes him hanker for it again and again even after the basic need is past.  This thought results in over-expending of the life-energy, which alone is any living being’s opening balance or Capital.  Don’t you hear a sad J. Krishnamurti warning you, ‘A life was given to you, the most precious thing possible.  And what have you done with it?  You have distorted it’.
The pressure for the perpetuation of the clan is the outcome of the soul’s imperative need to clear the imprints it has acquired through the generations.  Any object or article has an inherent quality.  For example, coolness is the inherent quality of the water.  When poured in a vessel and placed over fire, water acquires heat, which is not natural to it.  Effort is required to induce a quality into an object, which thereafter would be striving on its own to shed the addition.  Likewise the soul.  In the embodied condition, it projects as the mind, becomes cribbed  and cabined (as Shakespeare would put it), engenders the ego branching out as the ‘I’ and ‘Mine’ notions, develops likes and dislikes (ragam and dwesham), slips into the six temperamental moods ranging from kamam to matscharyam and draws on to itself countless stigmas in the form of imprints.
In its sustained endeavour to restore itself to its native state of  pristine purity, when the soul realizes that the job of clearance cannot be completed in the course of the physical body’s life-time, it has perforce to rope in some working partners in the shape of spouse and sons and daughters.  When this work-force too is in the same state of intoxication with worldly objects; the family-line has to necessarily continue from generation to ignorant generation.  History repeats itself in a most ignoble and inglorious manner. What shame, this !
I have explained to you the science behind marriage.  The institution of marriage has to be harnessed to what the Totality of Nature intended it to be.  In case some of you, boys and girls, would prefer to remain single for life, it is possible for you to do so, as long as you evolve a scheme of living, which would aid the clearing of imprints.  I shall share more information with you, depending on the earnestness you display during the question-time for which we could perhaps allot an hour even

Excerpt from a talk by Sage TGN to college-students
 

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2013, 10:20:28 AM »
Sri Ravi,

Thanks for the wonderful posts, they are most beneficial, and are to be read again and again, it is commonly applicable to everybody, no matter which station one is. This reminded me the teachings of Yama in Katha Upanishad. Yama begins his teaching by distinguishing between preyas, "what is pleasant", and shreyas, "what is beneficial."

(A similar distinction between the pleasant and the beneficial was made in ancient Greek philosophy by Plato.)

Yama's teaching also notably includes the Ratha Kalpana (parable of the chariot, Verses 1.3.3–4), Yama's parable consists of the following equations:




atman, the "Self" is the chariot's passenger
the body is the chariot itself
consciousness (buddhi) is the chariot driver
the mind (manas) is the reins
the five senses (indriya) are the chariot horses
the objects perceived by the senses are the chariot's path


 

I see the dangers of casual approach to life and stations of life after having had small glimpses or tastes of deep spirituality. I beg forgiveness, but in general i have noticed here and elsewhere, a sense of debunking of traditional spiritual practices and disciplines among many Ramana followers if not all.

Many have taken to the famous jargon "Summa Iru" or "Just Be" as the father of all and the only teaching and thereby debunking all the other disciplines necessary. I realised over introspection, (Can't talk for others) but i am truly far from just being, i am not engaging all of my waking times in communion. All who say, "Just Be" they may introspect within themselves, if they are Just Being at this very moment, or are we truly engaging in Self Enquiry in all our waking hours? I am sure not! Sometimes it appears to me 'Just Being' has taken the place of even Self Enquiry, where sadhakas feel, Enquiry is no more required and they are practicing 'Just Being' Teaching of Bhagavan have been distorted, i felt, from my perspective.

I truly felt this is a wake up call. We all should first know where we truly stand in the scheme of things, leaving aside Bhagavan Ramana or Sri Ramakrishna, They are the Supreme Self, Are we even closer to either devotees such as Muruganar or Master Mahashay? We are not, at least I am not.

The body needs to be governed and disciplined, it does not get disciplined simply saying "Just Being" and being far from it in reality. We need to assess ourselves truly by being an honest witness of ourselves and take necessary steps and take ownership of our lives and govern ourselves for the better.

Sri Jewel, yes, as you have said, Self is the Guru, Krishna says in Gita -

उद्धरेदात्मनात्मानं नात्मानमवसादयेत् ।
आत्मैव ह्यात्मनो बन्धुरात्मैव रिपुरात्मनः ॥

uddharedātmanātmānaṁ nātmānamavasādayet,
ātmaiva hyātmano bandhurātmaiva ripurātmanaḥ.

By the self thou shouldst deliver the self, thou shouldst not depress and cast down the self (whether by self-indulgence or suppression); for the self is the friend of the self and the self is the enemy.

and he also says -

तद्विद्धि प्रणिपातेन परिप्रश्नेन सेवया ।
उपदेक्ष्यन्ति ते ज्ञानं ज्ञानिनस्तत्त्वदर्शिनः ॥

tadviddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā,
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninastattvadarśinaḥ.

Learn that by worshipping the feet of the teacher, by questioning and by service; the men of knowledge who have seen (not those who know merely by the intellect) the true principles of things, will instruct thee in knowledge.

So, what is wise as i see, is yes, one had we must be aware and harness ourselves with the words of Sages that Self is God, Guru is truly within and go on with our lives but at the same time, we should be wise enough to not get stuck with just this ideal alone and stop our efforts and desire to truly meet a real Guru. Both go hand in hand. Truly wisdom calls from within to not rationalise as just this or just that what we say generally is that we need to be open minded.

Thanks all for your comments. The conviction in my quest has only increased now, over various opinions and questions posted in this post.

« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 10:32:18 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 10:42:27 AM »
I just wanted to add an extention to the example of Yama as given in the previous post.



When we say 'Just be' It is like this,

The intellect is says Just be, do not react, just keep quiet, while the horses are dancing in field of activity, and what we do is attribute the field of activity to the hands of prarabdha karma and keep quiet doing nothing, neither the horses are tamed neither the intellect is harnessed and is shown its faulty advise, one gets stagnated over this going no where.

Those who say, body is not Self, and one has to keep quiet also are not correct, its like saying, let the intellect say, do somethings, you keep quiet, let the horses say and go hither tither you just be. This is not spirituality, this is not what "Just Be" is.

To be master of the entire thing is the aspiration, the horse should stop upon your command, the intellect should act upon your command, the reigns should only move when you command the intellect, and horses move only upon the command of the intellect commanded by you.

there are a lot of things, we just cover them all up by just saying and practicing "Just Being" blindly. Without the mastery of Body, nothing will last. Thank you. Carrying on with Self Enquiry without keeping the chariot in check also is futile. One has to govern oneself overall.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 03:35:10 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,

Quote
To be master of the entire thing is the aspiration

This is what our Lady AnDAL refers to in this verse from Tiruppavai:

தூமணி மாடத்து சுற்றும் விளக்கெரியத்
தூபம் கமழத்
துயிலணைமேல் கண் வளரும்
மாமான் மகளே மணிக் கதவம் தாழ் திறவாய்
மாமீர் அவளை எழுப்பீரோ! உன் மகள் தான்
ஊமையோ அன்றி செவிடோ அனந்தலோ
ஏமப் பெருந் துயில் மந்திரப் பட்டாளோ!
மாமாயன் மாதவன் வைகுந்தன் என்றென்று
நாமம்  பலவும் நவின்றேலோர் என்பாவாய்

O Daughter of our uncle who is asleep on the soft couch placed in the immaculate and well-appointed chamber on the High,where lamps are burning all around and the air is laden with the aroma of incense!O do open the latch of the ornate door.Oh Aunt,would you not waken the girl?Pray tell us whether your daughter is dumb or deaf or simply sunk in stupor or confined to deep sleep through some incantation!Otherwise how could she be unresponsive to the several names we chant such as "the lord of mightily wondrous deeds","the repository of the fruits of penance"and "the deity of Vaikunta"?

In this wonderful verse AnDAL is referring to the adept who is in Nirvikalpa samadhi and yet the 'Lamps are burning all around and the air is laden with the aroma of incense'-TGN refers this as all round illumination,where the wisdom informs every quarters and manifests in thought,word and deed-and permeates all the senses;No quarter for any darkness!

I will be covering it in my tiruppavai thread hopefully.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2013, 08:20:18 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
What is meant by  'summa iru' ? An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Those whose spiritual consciousness has been awakened never make a false step. They do not have to reason in order to shun evil. They are so full of love of God that whatever action they undertake is a good action. They are fully conscious that they are not the doers of their actions, but mere servants of God. They always feel: 'I am the machine and He is the Operator. I do as He does through me. I speak as He speaks through me. I move as He moves me.'
"Fully awakened souls are beyond virtue and vice. They realize that it is God who does everything".

This is a clear measure to examine the 'summa Iru' that one may imagine oneself to be in.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Subject of Marriage
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2013, 09:57:32 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

For me Be Still mean Abide in the Self,and Self enquiry is just that. The one Who is "debunking" traditional practices is Bhagavan Himself. For the simple reason,we dont need it,if we are trully devoted to Him. He gave us metod,which is something like shorcut through danse forest. Chosing other spiritual practices over it,is like having short way map wr chose to go around,not only this forest,but few more. I dont see the need for that,exept it is some sort of,i must say,attachment towards it,or that very idea how that way should look like. For me,the only means for progress is patience,steadiness and above all,faithfullness to ones Guru. If we chose self enquiry that should mean we took Bhagavan to be our Guru,then all other search for other Guru is unnecessary. If we dont have faith in the teaching,how we ecspect to progress.At least,thats my seeing of it. With what kind of things and difficoulties someone have encounters,only each one of us know for himself. Inner life of anyone is very complex and unique,so what ever i say can be very false. But in one thing i am sure. Faith and steadiness are very important. And absolute madness after it,which means sincere wish. With it,no amount of self enquiry can be hard. I never doubded You have it. Maybe You are more close then You think. We cannot messure progress in our ways. It depends on what we expect.True,this path is very hard and difficult,and life appart from that. But i always remember Graham post in this very forum,when He encountered difficulties and loss of faith. He said to Bhagavan something like:"What kind of Guru are You,leaving Your ernest devotees. " In the same moment voice shouted loudly:"You believe illusion to be real." That experience changed all outlook of Sir Graham. I would never forget that post. I just wanted to share it.
And in my case,and i believe in general too,self inquiry is the tool for quieting the mind and senses.

With love and prayers,