Author Topic: Bhagawan on role of intellect  (Read 1045 times)

sanjaya_ganesh

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Bhagawan on role of intellect
« on: December 28, 2012, 09:48:30 AM »
Quoted from Talks with Ramana Maharshi (2006 Publication) as available at http://www.messagefrommasters.com/Ebooks/Ramana_Maharshi_Books/talks_with_sri_ramana_maharshi_complete.pdf

Page No. 55

D.: Is intellectual knowledge enough?
M.: Unless intellectually known, how to practice it? Learn it intellectually first, then do not stop with that. Practise it.

Page No: 58

D.: Is hatha yoga necessary?
M.: It is one of the aids - not that it is always necessary. It depends upon the person. Vichara surpasses pranayama. In Yoga Vasishta
Chudala advises investigation (vichara) to Sikhidvaja for killing the ego. Reality can be reached by holding on to prana or intellect. Hatha yoga is the former; Vichara is the latter.

Page No: 16

D.: It is understood intellectually only. Is not intellect a help for realisation?
M.: Yes, up to a certain stage. Even so, realise that the Self transcends the intellect — the latter must itself vanish to reach the Self.


Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on role of intellect
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 10:02:41 AM »
Sri Sanjay, i have been clear in what i had expressed. I would like to present my expressions as it has been posted in the respective thread to ease out the tension.

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'That', by which we are able to utilize the intellect or even know intellect, is alone important, you do not need intellect to know 'That'. Intellect is even known only because of 'That'.

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Bhakti comes not because of intellect, Bhakti comes only because of 'That', Bhakti is beyond intellect

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Who is it that uses intellect alone is important. Without knowing That, it is only Round-Robbin Who is it that feels the need for intellect? - These alone are important, as i see from the line of teachings of Bhagavan.

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but the moon can never know, as it is maya. The Upanishads and scriptures say, you are not the moon. That is all about it. There is no knowing really, but only wisdom of giving up the knowing.

The Self can never know itself. In the line of Bhagavan's teachings, the demand is like wanting to know that "I am Man"

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Bhagavan's direct teaching is all about giving up these illusions, and all its efforts and sticking to only the source of everything. In this journey (not really a journey) there is no need to undo anything (as really there is nothing to undo), the only thing is to keep sticking to only That, the source, By which all these are seen. The moment we cease from this tapas, we are in samsara, trying to cut asunder something that is untrue, this is Maya.

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no need to eliminate the ghosts. Like a child goes to its mother, go to a Guru, rest will be taken care. We are not asked to do anything external, in this case, we are already acquainted with the teachings of Bhagavan and therefore we are asked to enquire, who is it that wants to eliminate the ghosts, nothing else.

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Only when one drops ones intelligence can one realise the ambrosia, it is nothing through intellect, that one gets anything, ones intelligence is nothing before that which is, what ever one realises or discerns is only because of 'That' alone and never by ones own intelligence, intellect.

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the realization is all that is needed, you have said, then question follows, who is it that needs to be realized, the answer would be 'I', who am I, has to follow, without sticking to this, do you see the plays of the intellect? it is only maya, deviating one from tapas and taking one away from adhering to the teachings of Bhagavan.

Thank you.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Bhagawan on role of intellect
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 10:08:55 AM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Can You please explane how bhakti can be beyond maya,or beyond That,coz we came to that conclusion obviously? And what helped You to read and understand Upanishads?

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagawan on role of intellect
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 12:37:13 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Can You please explane how bhakti can be beyond maya,or beyond That,coz we came to that conclusion obviously? And what helped You to read and understand Upanishads?

Sri Jewel, what was said was not whether Bhakti is beyond maya or beyond that, i present again, the quote, what was conveyed, yet again, for better clarity!

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Bhakti comes not because of intellect, Bhakti comes only because of 'That', Bhakti is beyond intellect

It is not the question - what is helping us in reading and understanding upanishads, important; rather it is this question that is important - Who is it that is helped in reading and understanding upanishads, this alone is important!

Understanding here is of inconsequence, (no use) it is not what is understood that is important, but the one who is understanding, He ought to be pursued.

What is of use any understanding or discernment, if the one who is understanding is not sought after.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta