Author Topic: Tiruppavai-Discussion  (Read 20689 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2014, 07:19:28 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Master TGN's expressions really a treat, as a tamizh lover, surely can sense the blood of Mahakavi, and the insights that are gained by the various interpretations of tamizh words are really so wonderful for the heart, even though i am just a layman in reading and understanding tamizh. Had i, even more proficiency in tamizh, i would have loved to read aplenty but am content with what little juice i get as they are filled as much as more.

Good day to one and all

:)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2014, 05:58:28 AM »
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for helping with the illustrations.
Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #77 on: March 14, 2014, 06:50:26 AM »
Friends,
I have cited the example of Latu Maharaj (Swami Adbhutananda),in the comments to TiruppAvai verse 12.
As Rakhturam,a poor orphaned boy who lost his parents at the age of 5,he was brought up by his uncle in Bihar, he came to Calcutta and was employed as a servant boy in the house of Sri Ramachandra Dutta,a householder disciple of Sri Ramakrishna.Ramachandra Dutta used to visit Sri Ramakrishna and when he came come back home,would recount the conversations and stories about the master to his wife.Rakhturam listened to these talks and became eager to meet Sri Ramakrishna but could never bring himself to ask his master Ramachandra Dutta to take him to Dakshineswar.However the more he listened to the recounting of Ramachandra the more ardent he became until one day he could not contain himself,and followed his master who travelled in a Horsecart to Dakshineswar!On arriving at Dakshineswar,as Ramachandra Dutta entered Sri Ramakrishna's room,the poor boy stayed outside as is customary for a servant.Sri Ramakrishna asked Ramachandra whether anyone else accompanied him and he told him that he came alone,for he never counted the servant boy as one!Sri Ramakrishna came out and finding Rakhturam standing outside asked the boy to come in and sit in the room.
Rakturam hestitantly entered the room and sat down dissolved in tears and became totally absorbed.This is a wonderful story of how this utterly rustic servant boy became a paramahamsa .
Once the Master told him in an ecstatic mood, "One day the gems of the Vedas and Vedanta will pour forth from your lips". Thus Latu was commissioned and blessed by the Master. This prophecy later came to be fulfilled to the letter. It would seem as though Sri Ramakrishna intended to demonstrate to the modern world through Latu that God can be realized without the study of books and scriptures, that spiritual wisdom comes not through intellectual knowledge but through inner realization.
Those interested may refer:
http://rkmfiji.org/swami-adbhutananda/
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 06:57:01 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2014, 06:41:24 AM »
Friends,
Verse 1 and Verse 13 in TiruppAvai help to fix the period of AnDAL's sojourn on terra firma.In the very first verse of Tirupavai, she says that it was Full moon day in the month of Markazi-மார்கழித் திங்கள் மதி நிறைந்த நன்னாளால்   and then she says in verse 13 -Venus arising,Jupiter has gone to slumber -வெள்ளி எழுந்து வியாழம் உறங்கிற்று
This happened on 18th December 731 AD according to scholars Raghava Iyengar and KG Shankar.
AnDAL lived for a mere 24 years and was absorbed in Lord Ranganatha and her father periyAzhwAr continued for another 8 years before laying down his body.

Namaskar.

ramanaduli

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2014, 04:57:28 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,

I think the planets might have fallen in such a way that afte full moon on13th day. the  Venus arised and Jupiter got slumbered. She sang even the planetary positions of that time.


Ramanaduli

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #80 on: April 02, 2014, 08:15:07 AM »
Ramanaduli,

Quote
I think the planets might have fallen in such a way that afte full moon on13th day.


I do not know,may be the astronomers may figure it out.It is not as if AnDAL completed one verse per day;it is quite likely that she might have composed it at one go on the same day.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #81 on: April 04, 2014, 07:01:32 AM »
Friends,
We are now in verse 14 of TiruppAvai-a wonderful verse is this-There is comraderie,friendly taunt,and sense of togetherness,a freedom to take liberty with each other at a Human level;yet there is an underlying sense of Unity and purpose.TGN has revealed the central theme-that a seeker has to be devoted to Truth in thought,word and action.
When i Began this thread on TiruppAvai,prompted by our esteemed friend Subramanian,I was hesitant;I still am.When I met TGN soon after I began this topic,I mentioned to him that i am posting on TiruppAvai,whatever little that I have learnt from him,and sought  his blessings.
"There is  Grasp and competence"-Said he ,with a smile.I am putting my trust in his words and taking my plunge here-guided by his wonderful talks.
In his talks,TGN has said:'I Have given all the hints and clues;the more you delve into the subject,the richer will be your reward.You need not limit yourself to whatever I have expressed.You may go farther than this'.
In this verse 14,I am on this unchartered waters,guided by the above saying of Master TGN.It is concerning the meaning of this part of the verse:

செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண்பல் தவத்தவர்
தங்கள் திருக்கோயில் சங்கிடுவான்  போகின்றார்


This is translated as :

The ascetics with raiment red as brick-dust and
whose teeth are white are proceeding on their task
to blow the conch in their own temples;

What has வெண்பல், White Teeth to do with Tapas?This is something that is totally incongruent and lady AnDAL would never have meant it.In his talks ,TGN has simply mentioned it and has passed it.His main thrust is on remaining faithful to Truth and adhering to it.

Contemplating on this verse,it occurs to me that  வெண்பல் is a shortened form of வெண்பலி -which means ash.

செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண்பல் தவத்தவர் means that Ascetics wearing Ochre Robe and Sacred ash.

வெண்பல் தவத்தவர் means the Tapasvis who wear Sacred ash or Vibhuti.

We know that Saivism and Vaishavism thrived in the same period-and both had the common objective of infusing Bhakti and jnana in the hearts of common folks.

Herein,in this verse we see the Love and wisdom of our Lady AnDAL that knows no barriers,acknowledging the Greatness of SivAchAryas;She calls them as Tapasvis,proceeding to திருக்கோயில் ;She uses the Phrase தங்கள் திருக்கோயில் -meaning 'their Holy temple'.They may be visiting their temple,whatever that be;Yet that is Holy,Sacred.

More on my ramblings later.I just wanted to sound a note of caution to readers that I am on an unchartered ground here.So please take it for what it is.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #82 on: April 09, 2014, 07:35:08 AM »
Friends,
I have taken a simple straight forward sense of the lines:

செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண்பல் தவத்தவர்
தங்கள் திருக்கோயில் சங்கிடுவான்  போகின்றார்


செங்கற் பொடிக்கூறை வெண் பல் தவத்தவர்-I have taken this to mean that Devotees both monastic as well as Lay are proceeding to the temple to blow the conch.

There are interpretations by others that go to some length to explain what  வெண்பல் veNpal White Teeth refers to-That it refers to SanyAsis who do not eat Betel Leaf and Nut (வெற்றிலை பாக்கு) -Hence their teeth is white,etc .

I also found an interpretation that took this as வெண்பலி தவத்தவர் -Those who wear Sacred Ash.I have contemplated along these lines as I have posted earlier in this thread.

I have rejected both these views and taken a simple straight forward reading -பல் தவத்தவர் to mean different types of devotees,both monastic and lay.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2014, 08:54:10 AM »
Friends,
We are now in verse 15 of TiruppAvai.To recapitulate the grouping of verses:
Verses 1-5:உய்வதற்கான மார்க்கம் (Path to Salvation)
Verses 6-15:உறங்கியது போதாதோ!(Emerge out of Slumber!)
verses 16-20:தட்டுங்கள் திறக்கப்படும் (Knock and it shall be Opened)
Verses 21-30:வேண்டியதைப் பெறலாம்(Achieve all your desires)

With this verse 15, the call for awakening from Slumber comes to a close.This verse is wonderful for the spirit of comraderie-a sharp and short exchange of words takes place -leading to what is called Vaishanava Lakshanam-The very Definition of a true Vaishnava-Where one owns complete responsibility and accepts even other's faults as one's own-This is the true mark of a seeker that he does not blame others but accepts all of it himself in a spirit of humility.

The verse 15 thus occupies a central place in TiruppAvai.Although I have said that I have been hesitant,nothing has given me greater pleasure and joy than sharing these wonderful verses here and to be part of the satsangh of our Guru AnDAL,The girl with the Fragrant garland who ruled it over the Lord and all of us.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2014, 09:03:13 AM »
i was inspired to read this in an internet source:

Charactrestrics of Superior Bhakti (Utthama Sri Vaishnavaas)

BhUvarAhAcchAr Swamy sums up the TEN distingushing codes of conduct for our interaction with UtthamAdhikAris ( BhaagavathAs/BhakthAs of BhagavAn)as instructd by ANDAL through the "ukthi-prayukthi " lines of this very important paasuram :

1. " ellE ilankiLiyE": the implied sense is that the speech of the devotee (BHagavathA) is most welcome.

2. " innam uRangudiyO?": it is wrong to indulge in other things (vishayams) when the company of BhagavathAs is available.

3. " chil yenRu azhayEnmin": Not a single harsh word should be  used in conversation with BhAgavathAs.

4. " nangaimeer pOdarhinREn": BhAgavathAs should be addressed  most respectfully with utter/sincere humility.

5. " Vallai un katturaigaL": even the chastisement by a BhAgavathA (which will always be constructive)      should be accepted gracefully.

6. " ValleergaL neengaLE NAANE THAAN AAYIDUGA" : Owning others'  mistakes as one's own is the hallmark (LakshaNam) of a true Sri VaishNavan. For example , BharathA holds himself responsible for RaamA's exile to the forest.

7. " ollai nee pOdhAi": seperation form the BhAgavathAs even for a second is unbearable.

8. " unakenna vERudayai" : The path laid down by one's poorvAs need to be followed , not what is dictated by one's own mind.

9. " ellArum pOndhArO pOnthAr ponthu yeNNikkoL ": seeing a congregation of BhAgavathAs (and being part of that      group)is the most desired fruit in this life. The enjoyment  is not complete even if one BhAgavathA  is missing.      Their sight (darsana soubhAgaym)and touch ( adorning  the dust from their sacred feet )are all vital factors      to change one's purpose in this life and acquire lasting  soubhAgyams.

10." VallAnai konRAnai mARRArai mARRazhikka vallAnai Mayanai paadu":  Singing His ( Lord's) virtues , valour , victory and other  kalyANa guNAs are vital to a Sri VaishNavA as  means of  pleasing other Sri VaishNavAs; as such , it results in  the service of BhAgavathAs( BhAgavatha daasyam), which is  the boundary limit of Bhagavath Kaimkaryam .

These ten golden rules are to be cherished by us says  ANDAL , the avathAram of BhUmi Devi for our ujjeevanam (salvation)after Her own dialog on Laghu Upayam with Her Lord BhU VarAhan to redeem us .

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #85 on: April 21, 2014, 07:36:06 AM »
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for the post by Sri BhUvarAhAcchAr Swamy.This verse 15 is indeed wonderful for its Sharp and sweet exchange of words between the Girls.We will see the significance of AnDAL asking the girl to count!
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #86 on: June 12, 2015, 07:36:40 AM »
Friends,
We have not visited Tiruppavai thread for quite some time now.To Recap,we are on this very central and deeply pregnant verse in Tiruppavai,Verse 15.

எல்லே இளங்கிளியே! இன்னம் உறங்குதியோ?
சில்லென்றழையேன்மின், நங்கைமீர்! போதர்கின்றேன்;
'வல்லை, உன் கட்டுரைகள்! பண்டே உன்வாயறிதும்!'
'வல்லீர்கள் நீங்களே நானேதான் ஆயிடுக!'

'ஒல்லைநீ போதாய், உனக்கென்ன வேறுடையை?'
'எல்லோரும் போந்தாரோ?' 'போந்தார், போந்து எண்ணிக்கொள்'
வல்லானை கொன்றானை, மாற்றாரை மாற்றழிக்க
வல்லானை, மாயனைப் பாடேலோரெம்பாவாய்.

To get to the essence of this verse,there can be no better commentary than the words of Kanchi Mahaswami-who is its best exemplar.I warmly recommend this video /Talk by the mahaswami:
http://periva.proboards.com/thread/9423/sri-maha-perivas-message-devoteesixzz3c0BB9dSi
வாயறிதும்-refers to upanyasam and we may see what mahaswami has to say on that.
See if we can find "வல்லீர்கள் நீங்களே நானேதான் ஆயிடுக!" in his talk!This is how the jnani conducts himself as an acharya!He simply practices what he preaches and it is this practice that is his tapas and this tapas benefits the whole world!('எல்லோரும் போந்தாரோ?' 'போந்தார், போந்து எண்ணிக்கொள்')
I came across this talk recemtly and it gives me immense happiness to see how this is a perfect commentary and live modern day version of this Tiruppavai verse 15.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #87 on: December 16, 2017, 06:14:47 AM »
Friends,
Today ushers in the auspicious month of margazhi ...My thoughts go back to my childhood days when temple bells and devotional songs from all directions will fill the air in the predawn period...and there will be a lilt and sprightliness to the gait of everyone young and old in the household preparing to visit the early morning temple worship...These days the worship in the temples go on but the gaiety is much mellowed but nevertheless the month has its charm undiminished.
We have not visited the Tiruppavai for quite sometime...let us see if we can continue from where we left off.
namaskar

Jewell

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #88 on: December 16, 2017, 07:35:47 AM »
O how happy,happy i am to see You are continuing this thread,dear Sri Ravi!

Truly,even if i never knew Tiruppavai,or Lady Andal,i am in love with this Divine work. There is some sort of familiarity and sweetness,beyond my understanding... It is all because of our Lord! Our beautiful blue hued Lord!

You made me so happy this morning...

With love,
« Last Edit: December 18, 2017, 05:08:39 AM by Jewell »

Ravi.N

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Re: Tiruppavai-Discussion
« Reply #89 on: December 17, 2017, 04:09:31 AM »
Jewell,
You are indeed blessed...it is indeed very rare to come across one who can appreciate spiritual fare in all its varied aspects from seemingly diverse sources...the essence is ever the same and inexhaustible i.e shivam santham sundaram (Auspiciousness, peace and beauty)...this is truly an asset.
namaskar