Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:

[Subramanian.R]

continues......

Talks No. 641:

Explaining the opening stanza of the Sad Vidya, Sri Bhagavan observed:  The world is always apparent to everyone.  All
must know 'I and this world exist'.  On inquiry, 'do these always exist?' and 'if indeed real, they must remain even unrelated
to time, space and differentiation.  Are they so?'  It is evident that only in the waking and dream states these are perceived
but not in deep sleep.  Therefore 'I' and the world appear sometimes and disappear also.  They are created, have their being
and later vanish.  Whence do they arise? Wherein do they remain?  Where do they go on vanishing from view?  Can such
phenomena be admitted to be real?

Furthermore, I and the world, objects of creation, sustenance and destruction, are perceived in the waking and dream states
only and not in deep sleep.  How does deep sleep differ from other two states?  In sleep  there are no thoughts whereas in
the other two states, there are.  There the thoughts must be the origin of the 'I' and the world.

Now what about thoughts?  They cannot be natural.  Otherwise they cannot appear at moment and disappear at another. 
Where from do they arise?  Their source, ever present and not subject to variations must be admitted to be. It must be
the eternal state as said in the upadesa mantra - That from which all beings come forth, that in which they remain and that into
which they resolve.

This stanza is not in praise or adoration but only an expression of the Reality.

***

Arunachala Siva.             
     

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 642:

Mr. K. Lakshmana Sarmaz asked:

Svasvarupanusandhanam bhaktirityabhidhiyate.

Again, Svatamatattvanusadhanam bhaktirityapare joguh.

What is the difference between the two?

Maharshi:  The former is Vichara, -- Who am I? (Koham?).   It represents Jnana.

The latter is dhyana - Whence am I? (Kutoham?).   This admits a jivatma which seeks the Paramatma.

****

Arunachala Siva.   

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 643:

An elderly learned Andhra asked:  'Are the two methods  Karma marga and Jnana marga separate and independent of each
other?  Or is the Karma marga only a preliminary, which after successful practice should be followed by Jnana marga
for the consummation of the aim?  The Karma advocates non attachment to action, and yet an active life, whereas the Jnana
means renunciation.  What is the true meaning  of renunciation?  Subjugation of lust, passion, greed, etc., is common to all
and forms the essential preliminary step for any course. Does not freedom from passions indicate renunciation?  Or is renunciation
different, meaning cessation of active life?  These questions are troubling me and I beg lights to be thrown on these doubts.'

Bhagavan smiled and answered: 'You have said it all.  Your question contains the answer also.  Freedom from passions is
the essential requisite.  When that is accomplished all else is accomplished.

Devotee: Sri Sankara emphasizes the Jnana Marga and renunciation as preliminary to it.  But there are clearly two methods
dwividha mentioned in Gita.  They are Karma and Jnana (lokeshmin dwividha nishta...)

Maharshi: Sri Acharya has commented on the Gita and on that passage also.

Devotee: The Gita seems to emphasize Karma. For Arjuna is persuaded to fight. Sri Krishna Himself set the example by an active
life of great exploits.

Maharshi: The Gita starts saying that you are not the body, that you are not therefore the karta.

Devotee: What is the significance? 

Maharshi: That one should act without thinking that oneself is the actor. The actions go on despite his egolessness. The person
has come into manifestation for a certain purpose. That purpose will be accomplished whether he considers himself the actor or not.

Devotee: What is Karma Yoga?

Maharshi: Karma Yoga is that yoga in which the person does not arrogate to himself the function of being the actor.  The actions
go on automatically. 

Devotee: Is it the non attachment to the fruits of actions?

Maharshi: The question arises only if there is the actor.  It is being all along said that you should not consider yourself the actor.

Devotee: So Karma yoga is kartrtva buddhi rahita karma.  --- action without the sense of doership.

Maharshi: Yes. Quite so.

Devotee: The Gita teaches active life from beginning to end.

Maharshi: Yes, the actor-less action. 

Devotee: Is it then necessary to leave home and lead a life of renunciation?

Maharshi: Is the home in you? Or are you in the home?

Devotee: It is in my mind.

Maharshi: Then what becomes of you when you leave the physical environment?

Devotee: Now, I see. Renunciation is only action without the sense of being the karta.

                Is there not action for a jivanmukta?

Maharshi: Who raises the question? Is he a Jivanmukta or another?

Devotee: Not a jivanmukta.

Maharshi: Let the question be raised after jivanmuki is gained if it is found necessary. Mukti is admitted to be freedom from
the mental activities also. Can a mukta think of action?

Devotee: Even if he gives up action, the action will not leave him. Is it not so?

Maharshi: With what is he identified in order that this question might apply?

Devotee: Yes, I see all right. My doubts are cleared.

****

Arunachala Siva.               

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 644:

A District Official, a Muslim:  What is the necessity for the reincarnation?

Maharshi: Let us first see if there is incarnation before we speak of reincarnation.

Devotee: How?

Maharshi: Are you now incarnated that you speak of reincarnation?

Devotee: Yes. Certainly.  An amoeba developed into higher organisms until the human being has been evolved.  This is now
the perfection in development.  Why should there be further reincarnation?

Maharshi: Who is to set limits to this theory of evolution?

Devotee: Physically it is perfect.  But for the soul, further development may be required which will happen after the death
of the man.

Maharshi:  Who is the man?  Is he the body or the soul?

Devotee: Both put together.

Maharshi: Do you exist in the absence of the body?

Devotee: What do you mean?  It is impossible.

Maharshi:  What was your state in deep sleep?

Devotee: Sleep is temporary death.  I was unconscious and therefore I cannot say what the state was.

Maharshi: But you existed in sleep.  Did you not?

Devotee: In sleep, the soul leaves the body and goes out somewhere.  Then it returns to the body before waking.  It is
therefore temporary death.

Maharshi: A man who is dead never returns to say that he died, whereas the man who had slept says that he slept.

Devotee:  Because this is temporary death.

Maharshi: If the death is temporary  and life is temporary, what is it that is real?

Devotee: What is meant by this question?

Maharshi:  If life and death be temporary, there must be something which is not temporary. Reality is that which is not
temporary. 

Devotee: There is nothing real. Everything  is temporary.  Everything is maya.

Maharshi: On what does Maya appear?

Devotee: Now I see you.  It is all maya.   

Maharshi: If everything is Maya, how does any question arise?

Devotee: Why should there be reincarnation?

Maharshi: For whom?

Devotee: For the perfect human being.

Maharshi: If you are perfect, why do you fear to be reborn?  It indicates imperfection.

Devotee: Not that I fear.  But you say that I must be reborn.

Maharshi: Who says it?  You are asking the question.

Devotee: What I mean is this.  You are a Perfect Being, I am a sinner. You tell me that I being a sinner must be reborn
in order to perfect myself.

Maharshi: No. No. I do not say so.  On the other hand I say that you have no birth and therefore no death.

contd.

Arunachala Siva.       

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 644:

continues....

Devotee:  Do you mean to say that I was not born?

Maharshi:  Yes.  You are now thinking that you are the body and therefore confuse yourself with its birth and death.
But you are not the body and you have no birth and death.

Devotee: Do you not uphold the theory of rebirth?

Maharshi: No. On the other hand, I want to remove your confusion that you will be reborn.  It is you who think that you
will be reborn. 

See for whom this question arises.  Unless the questioner is found, the questions can never be set at rest.

Devotee: This is no answer to my question.

Maharshi: On the other hand, this is the answer to elucidate the point and all other doubts as well.

Devotee: This will not satisfy all others.

Maharshi: Leave others alone.  If you take care of yourself, others can take care of themselves.

Silence followed. He left in a few minutes apparently dissatisfied with the discourse.

Sri Bhagaan said after a few minutes:  This will work in him.  The discourse will have its effect.

He does not admit any Reality.  Well - who is it that has determined everything to be unreal?  Otherwise the determination
also becomes unreal.

The theory of evolution is enlarged upon by the person in this state.  Where is it, if not in the mind?

to say that the soul must be perfected after death, the soul must be admitted to exist.  Therefore the body is not the person.
It is the soul.

To explain evolution Sri Bhagavan continued:

One sees an edifice in his dream. It rises up all of a sudden.  Then he begins to think how i should have been already built
brick by brick by so many laborers during such a long time.  Yet he does not see the builders working.  So also with the
theory of evolution.  Because he finds himself a man he thinks that he has developed to that stage from the primal state of
amoeba.

Another devotee: It is an illustration of the saying that he see the universe full of cause and effect. Visvam pasyati karyakaranataya.

Maharshi: Yes. The man always traces an effect to be a cause, there must be a cause for the cause, the argument becomes
interminable.  Relating the effect to a cause makes the man think.  He is finally driven to consider who he is himself.  When he
knows the Self,  there is Perfect Peace. It is for that consummation that man is evolved.

Later in the evening, another devotee said to Sri Bhagavan that the Muslim official continued to speak of the same topic to the
Municipal Commissioner.

Then, Sri Bhagavan said: He says that body and soul together form the man.  But I ask what is the state of the man in deep
sleep.  The body is not aware whereas the man is there all along. 

Devotee: But he says that sleep is temporary death.

Maharshi:  Yes, so he says.  But the qualifies the word death by the word temporary, so that the man returns to the body.
How does he find the body to re-enter it?  Moreover, he is sure to return.  That means that he must exist to return to the
body or claim the body for himself.

The scriptures however say that the prana protects the body in sleep.  For when the body lies on the floor, a wolf or a tiger
may feed on it.  The animal sniffs and feels that there is life within and therefore does not feed on it as on a corpse. That
again shows that there is someone in the body to protect it in deep sleep.

General Remarks by Sri Bhagavan:

All knowledge is meant only to lead the person to realization of the Self.  The scriptures or religions are well known to be for
that purpose.  What do they all mean?  Leave alone what they say of the past or of the future; for it is only speculative. 
But the present existence is within the experience of all. Realize the Pure Being.  There is an end to all discourses and disputes.

But the intellect of man does not easily take to this course.  It is only rarely that a man becomes introverted.  The intellect delights
in investigating the past and the future but does not look to the present.

Devotee: Because it must lose itself if it sank within in search of the Self. But the other investigation gives it not only a lease of
life but also food for growth.

Maharshi: Yes. Quite so. Why is intellect developed?  It has a purpose.  The purpose is that it should show the way to realize
the Self. It must be put to that use.

*****

Arunachala Siva.                     
           

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 645.

A man of about 30, of good appearance came to the Hall with a few companions.  The man abruptly began: 'To say 'I-I' cannot
help anyone to reach the goal.  How can 'I' be appointed out?

Maharshi: It must be found within.  It is an object so that it may be shown by one to another.

Devotee: When the instruction to find the 'I' is given, the instruction must be made complete by showing what it is.

Maharshi:  The instruction to find the 'I' is given, the instruction here amounts to direction only.  It depends on the seeker
to use the direction.
 
Devotee: The seeker is ignorant and seeks instruction.

Maharshi:  He is therefore guided to find the Truth.

Devotee: But it is not enough.  The 'I' must be pointed out specifically.

The man assumed an aggressive attitude and did not listen.  Sri Bhagavan tried to explain, but he would not allow Sri
Bhagavan to do so.

Finally, Sri Bhagavan said:  This is not an attitude of the seeker.  When someone teaches humility to the seeker, he will
reach the way and not till then.

The chanting of the Vedas began.

The conversation was casually referred to by a devotee present.

Sri Bhagavan again said:  The seeker must listen and try to understand. If on the other hand he wants to prove me, let him
do so by all means.  I do not argue.

The man began again: My attitude was not properly understood, I want to know the 'I'. It must be pointed out to me.'

But he displayed considerable malice,  The others did not like it and so tried to bring him round.  He became worse.  Sri Bhagavan
finally said: Go back the way you came. Do it externally or internally as it suits you.

The man grew excited and others were also equally excited.  He was finally led out of the Hall and sent away.

Later it was learnt that the man was an adherent of yoga and that he used to abuse all other methods.  He used to vilify Jnana
and the Jnanis.

At night after supper, Sri Bhagavan spoke of one Govinda Yogi, a Malayalee Brahmin pandit of some repute, who used to extol
yoga and vilify the other methods.  He always cited the Gita, the Upanishads etc., to support his statement.  Others e.g., Sri
Naryana Guru, used to refute him on the same grounds.

Later Sri Bhagavan spoke appreciating the amiability of Amritanada. He is a great tapasvi, who had made considerable japa.
He had fed the poor on many occasions in many places.  He could easily gain the good will of others including great men like
Sri P. Ramanathan and Pandit Malaviya.

****

Arunachala Siva.             

           

[Subramanian.R]

continues...

Talks No. 646:

Sri Bhagavan referred to the following passage of Gandhiji in the Harijan of the 11th instant:

'How mysterious are the ways of God!  This journey to Rajkot is wonder even to me. Why am I going, whither am I going?
What for? I have thought nothing about these things.  And if God guides me, what should I think, why should I think?
Even thought may be an obstacle to the way of His guidance.

'The fact is, it takes no effort to stop thinking.  The thoughts do NOT come. Indeed there is no vaccuum  -- but I mean to
say that there is no thought about the mission.'

Sri Bhagavan remarked how true the words were and emphasized each statement in the extract.  Then He cited Thayumanavar
in support of the state, which is free from thoughts:

"Although I had often heard that all the Srutis declare the state of stillness to be one of Bliss, all Bliss, -- yet I continued
to be ignorant.  Again I did not follow the advice of my Lord -- the Silent Master - because of my folly.  I wandered in the forest
of illusion; alas! it was my fate."

"Bliss will reveal itself if one is still. Why then is this illusory yoga practice? Can it (i.e. Bliss) be revealed by directing the intellect
in a particular way? Do not say so, you who are given to the practice and are therefore an innocent babe."

"The eternal Being is that state where you have disappeared.  Are you not in it too?  You, who cannot speak of it, do not
be perplexed. Although you do not manifest, yet you are not lost.  For you are eternal and also still.  Do not be in pain.
Here is Bliss, -- come on !"

***

Arunachala Siva.

         

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 647:

Devotee: Is not what Gandhiji describes, the state in which thoughts themselves become foreign?

Maharshi: Yes. It is only after the rise of 'I' thought that all other thoughts arise.  The world is seen only after you have
felt 'I am'. The 'I'-thought and all the other thoughts had vanished for him.

Devotee: Then the body sense must be absent in that state.

Maharshi: The body sense is also a thought whereas he describes the stat in which 'thoughts do not come'.

Devotee: He also says,'It takes no effort to stop thinking.'

Maharshi: Of course no effort is necessary to stop thoughts whereas one is necessary for bringing about thoughts.

Devotee: We are trying to stop thoughts. Gandhiji also says that thought is an obstacle to God's guidance. So it is the
natural state.  Though natural, yet how difficult to realize. They say that sadhanas are necessary and also that they are
obstacles.  We get confused.

Maharshi: Sadhanas are needed so long as one has not realized it.  They are for putting an end to obstacles.  Finally
there comes a stage, when a person feels helpless notwithstanding the sadhanas.  He is unable to pursue the much
cherished sadhana also.  It is then that God's  Power is realized.  The Self reveals itself.

Devotee: If that state is natural, why does it not overcome the unnatural phases, and assert itself over the rest?

Maharshi: Is there anything besides that? Does anyone see anything besides the Self?  One is always aware of the Self.
So It is always Itself.

Devotee: It is said, because It shines forth, It is directly perceived. I understand from it that It becomes Pratyaksha
(directly perceived), because it is Pradeepa (shining).  Since it is not realized by us, I take it to be not shining. It is only
Pradeepa (shining) and hence admits of obstacles and goes under them.  If the Atma becomes prakarshena deepta
(very shining) it will shine over all the rest.  So it seems necessary to make it shine more.

Maharshi: How can it be so?  The Atma cannot be dull at one moment and blazing at another. It is unchanging and
uniform

Devotee: But Chudala says to Sikhidvaja that she simply helped to trim the wick.

Maharshi: That refers to nididhyasana.  By Sravana, Knowledge dawns.  That is the flame.  By manana, the Knowledge
is not allowed to vanish. Just as the flame is protected by a wind screen, so the other thoughts are not allowed to overwhelm
the right knowledge.  By nididhyasana, the flame is kept up to burn bright by trimming the wick.  Whenever other thoughts
arise, the mind is turned inward to the light of true knowledge.  When this becomes natural, it is Samadhi.  The inquiry
Who am I? is Sravana. The ascertainment of the true import of 'I' is manana. The practical application on each occasion is
nididhyasana.  Being as 'I' is Samadhi/

Devotee: Although we have heard it so often and so constantly, yet we are unable to put the teaching into practice successfully.
It must be due to weakness of mind. Is it possible that one age is a bar?

Maharshi: The mind is commonly said to be strong if it can think furiously.  But here the mind is strong only if it is free from
thoughts.  The yogis say that realization can be had only before the age of 30. But not the Jnanis. For Jnana does not cease
to exist with age.


contd.,

Arunachala Siva.       

                   

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 647:

continues...

It is true that in the Yoga Vasishta, Vasishta says to Rama in the Vairagya Prakaranam - 'You have this dispassion in your
youth.  It is admirable.' But he did not say that Jnana cannot be had in old age.  There is nothing to prevent  it in old age.

The sadhak must remain as the Self.  If he cannot do so, he must ascertain the true meaning of the 'I' and constantly revert
to it whenever other thoughts arise.  That is the practice.

Some say that one must know the 'tat' because the idea of the world constantly arises to deflect the mind.  If the Reality
behind it is first ascertained it will be found to be Brahman.  The 'tvam' is understood later.  It is the Jiva.  Finally there will
be jiva-brahma-aikya (union of the two).

But why all this? Can the world exist apart from the Self?  The 'I' is always Brahman.  Its identity need not be established by
logic and practice.  It is enough that one realizes the Self.  It is always the Brahman.

According to the other school, nididhyasana will be the thought Aham Brahmasmi (I am Brahman).  That is diversion
of though to Brahman.  No diversion should be allowed. Know the Self and there is an end of it.

No long process is necessary to know the Self.  Is it to be pointed out by another?  Does not everyone know that he exists?
Even in utter darkness when he cannot see his hand, he answers a call and says, 'I am here'.

Devotee: But that 'I' is the ego or the 'I'-thought and it is not Absolute Self that answers the call or is otherwise aware of
oneself.

Maharshi: Even the ego can become aware of itself in the absence of light, sight etc., Much more so should be the Pure
Light of the Self.

I am saying that the Self is self evident.  One need not discuss the tattvas to find the Self. Some say there are 24 tattvas,
others more and so on.  Should we know the tattvas, before we admit the existence of the Self?  The sastraas dilate upon
them in order to point out that the Self is untouched by them.  But for the seeker he can straightaway admit the Self and
try to be That, without having recourse to the study of of the tattvas.

Devotee: Gandhiji adhered to Satya (Truth) so long and won realization of the Self.

Maharshi: What is Satya except the Self?  Satya is that which is made up of Sat. Again Sat is nothing but the Self.  So
Gandhiji's Satya is only the Self.

Each one knows the Self but is yet ignorant. The person is enabled to realize only after hearing the Mahavakyas.  Hence
the Upanishadic text is the eternal Truth to which everyone who has realized owes his experience.  After hearing the Self
to be the Brahman the person finds the true import of the Self and reverts to it whenever he is diverted from it.  Here is the
whole process of Realization.

****

Arunachala Siva.     
 
 

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No.  648:

Sri Bhagavan said that Tattva Rayar was the first one to pour forth Advaita Philosophy in Tamizh.

He had said that the Earth was his bed, his hands were his plates for taking food, the loin cloth was his clothing, and thus
there was no want for him.

In Maharaja Turavu (author Kumara Devar), he says: He was seated on the bare ground, the earth was his seat, the mind
was the Chamara, the sky was the canopy; and renunciation was his spouse. 

Then Sri Bhagavan continued:  I had no cloth spread on the floor in earlier days.  I used to sit on the floor and lie on the
ground.  That is freedom.  The sofa is a bondage. It is a gaol for me.  I am not allowed to sit where and how I please.  Is
it not a bondage?  One must be free to do as one pleases, and should not be served by others.

'No want' is the greatest bliss.  It can be realized only by experience.  Even an emperor is no match for a man with
no want.  The emperor has got vassals under him.  But the other man is not aware of anyone beside the Self.  Which
is better?

******

Arunachala Siva.       

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 649:

Mr. Thompson, a very quiet young gentleman who is staying in India for some years and studying Hindu philosophy as an
earnest student, asked:

Srimad Bhagavad Gita says: 'I am the prop for Brahman.'  In another place, it says: 'I am in the heart of each one.' Thus
the different aspects of the Ultimate Principle are revealed.  I take it that there are three aspects, namely, 1) transcendental
2) immanent  and 3) the cosmic. Is Realization to be in any one of these or in all of them?  Coming to the transcendental from
the cosmic, the Vedanta discards the names and forms as being Maya.  But I cannot readily appreciate it because a tree means
the trunk, branches and leaves etc., I cannot dismiss the leaves as Maya.  Again the Vedanta says that the whole is Brahman
as illustrated by the gold and gold ornaments. How are we to understand the Truth?

Maharshi: The Gita says: Brahmano hi pratishtaham. If that 'aham' is known, the whole is known.

Devotee: It is the immanent aspect only.

Maharshi: You now think that you are an individual, there is the universe, and that God is beyond the cosmos.  So there is the
idea of separateness. This idea must go.  For God is not separate from you or the cosmos.  The Gita also says:

The Self am I, O Lord of Sleep,
In every creature's heart enshrined.
The rise and noon of every form,
I am its final doom as well.                         (BG. X 20).

Thus God is not only in the heart of all, He is the prop of all, He is the Source of all, their abiding place and their end. All
proceed from Him, have their stay in Him and finally resolve into Him.  Therefore He is not separate.

Devotee: How are we to understand this passage in the Gita:?

"This whole cosmos forms a particle in Me."

Maharshi: It does not mean that a small particle of God separates from Him and forms the Universe. His Sakti is acting; as a
result of one phase of such activity the cosmos has become manifest.  Similarly, the statement in Purusha Sukta, 'All beings
form His one foot, Padosya viswa bhutani does not mean that Brahman is in four parts. 

Devotee: I understand it. Brahman is not divisible.

Maharshi: So the fact is that Brahman is all and remains indivisible. He is ever realized. The man does not however know it.
He must know it.  Knowledge means the overcoming of obstacles which obstruct revelation of the Eternal Truth and the
Self is the same as Brahman.  The obstacles form altogether your idea of separateness as an individual.  Therefore, the present
attempt will result in the truth being revealed that the Self is not separate from Brahman.

***

Arunachala Siva.                         

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 650:

An Andhra gentleman of middle age asked Sri Bhagavan how he should make his japa.

Maharshi: The japa contains the word namah. It means that state in which the mind does not manifest apart apart from the Self.
When the state is accomplished there will be an end of the japa. For the doer disappears and so also the action.  The Eternal
Being is alone left.  Japa should be made until that state is reached. There is no escape from the Self.  The doer will automatically
drawn into it.  When once it is done the man cannot do anything else, remaining merged in the Self. 

Devotee: Will bhakti lead to mukti?

Maharshi: Bhakti is not different from mukti.  Bhakti is being as the Self (Svarupa). One is always that.  He realizes it by the
means he adopts.  What is bhakti?  To think of God.  That means: only one thought prevails to the exclusion of all other thoughts.
That thought is of God which is the Self or it is the Self surrendered unto God.  When He has taken you up nothing will assail
you.  The absence of thoughts is bhakti. It is also mukti.

The jnana method is said to be Vichara. That is nothing but 'supreme devotion' (parabhakti).  The difference is in words only.
You think that bhakti is meditation on the Supreme Being.  So long as there is vibahkti (the sense of separateness), bhakti
(reunion) is sought.  The process will lead to the ultimate goal as is said in Srimad Bhagavad Gita

arto jignasuh artharthi jnani cha Bhratarshabha
tesham jnani nityayukta ekabhaktir visishyate

       - VII 16-17.

Any kind of meditation is good. But if the sense of separateness is lost and the object of meditation or the subject who
meditates is alone left behind without anything else to know, it is jnana.  Jnana is said to be ekabhakti (single minded
devotion).  The Jnani is the finality because he has become the Self and there is nothing more to do.  He is also perfect
and so fearless. dwitiyat vai bhayam bnhavati -- only the existence of a second gives rise to fear.  This is mukti.  It is also
bhakti.

****

Arunachala Siva.       

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 651:

A.W. Chadwick is copying the English translation of the Tamizh Kaivalya Navaneetam.  When he came across some technical
terms in it, and felt some difficulty in understanding them, he asked Sri Bhagavan about them.  Sri Bhagavan said: 'Those
portions deal with theories of creation.  They are not material because the Srutis do not mean to set forth such theories.
They mention the theories casually so that the inquirer may please himself if he is so inclined.  The truth is that the world
appears as a passing shadow in a flood of light. Light is necessary to see the shadow also.  The shadow does not deserve
any special notice, analysis or discussion.  The book deals with the Self and that is its purpose.  The discussions on creation
may be omitted for the present.'

Later, Sri Bhagavan continued: 'The Vedanta says that the cosmos springs in view simultaneously with the Seer. There is no
detailed process of creation. This is said to be yugapat srshti (instantaneous creation). It is quite similar to the creations in
dream where the experiencer springs up simultaneously with the objects of experience.  When this is told, some people are
not satisfied for they are so rooted in objective knowledge.  They seek to find out how there can be sudden creation.  They argue
that an effect must be preceded by a cause. In short,  they desire an explanation for the existence of the world which they see
around them.  Then the Srutis try satisfy their curiosity b such theories of creation.  This method of dealing with the subject is
called krama srshti (gradual creation).  But the true seeker can be content with yugapat srshti - instantaneous creation.'

****

Arunachala Siva.                   

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 652:

A certain person had composed verses in praise of Sri Bhagavan. Therein the word Avartapuri occurs.  Sri Bhagavan said that it
means Tiruchuzhi, the birthplace of Sri Bhagavan. The place goes by different names. Avarta chuzhi is an eddy.  There had been
several deluges. God Siva had saved this place from three of them.  On one occasion, when the whole land surface was immersed
in waters, Siva planted His trident in that place.  All the waters, which would have otherwise flooded it, were drawn into that hole.
Then an eddy was formed.  Hence the name, Again in another deluge, He held the place aloft on the top of the trident.  Hence
Soola puri.

Mother Earth was carried away by Hiranyaksha into the waters. When recovered by Vishnu, she felt that she had papa-
sparsa (touch of the sinner) by that Rakshasa.  As an expitation of that impure touch she worshipped Siva in that place.
Hence, Bhoominatha Kshetra.

Gautama is  prominent in Arunachala as well as in Tiruchuzhi.  Siva showed Himself to the Saint in the dancing posture and also
reenacted the wedding of Gauri-Shankar.

Kaundinya was another rishi for whose sake the sacred river began to flow there. It goes by the name rishi i..e. Kaundinya
river which in Tamizh was corrupted into Kundaru.  It is otherwise called Papahari., i.e,. destroyer of sins.

contd.,

Arunachala Siva.,         

[Subramanian.R]

Talks No. 652:

continues....

There lies a story behind it. A King's daughter was hysterical (i.e possessed). She was taken on a pilgrimage to various
sacred places and tirthas.  On one occasion, the party heard the name Papahari as a tirtha in a sankalpa before bathing.
They inquired where the tirtha was and went to Tiruchuzhi. The girl was bathed in that water and thus made free from
the spirit. 

The Pandya king also got free from brahmahatya in this place.  It happens to the center of the Pandya Kingdom, which
comprised the Madurai, Ramanathapuram and Tirunelveli districts. 

The village had a a sacred tank in front of the temple, which was the spot of the eddy created by the trident of Siva.
Even now the waters in the tank rise at the rate of about a foot everyday for ten consecutive days preceding the full
moon in the Tamizh month of Masi (Maghasuddha Pournami) and then gradually fall during the succeeding ten days.
This phenomenon can be observed every year.  It is noted with wonder by the young ones in the village.  Pilgrims gather
to bathe in those waters on that occasion.  That water is sulphurous for the silver jewels of the bathers become dark after
bathing in it.  Sri Bhagavan said He had noted it when He was a boy.

The village has the river on one side and a huge tank on the other side.  The bund of the lake is clayey and runs about
three miles in all.  The lake is strangely enough twenty feet over the level of the village. Even when it is over full, the
waters escape in the other directions leaving the village unaffected.

***
Arunachala Siva.