Author Topic: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:  (Read 58075 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #120 on: April 08, 2013, 12:55:26 PM »

Talks N. 512:

Sri Bhagavan said: All mistake the mind-consciousness for the Self-Consciousness. There is no mind in deep sleep, but no one
denies his being in sleep. Even a child says on waking, 'I slept well.' and does not deny its existence. The 'I' rises up, the mind
turns outward through the five senses, and perceives objects, this they call direct perception. Asked if 'I' is not directly perceived,
they get confused, because 'I' does not announce itself as an object in front and only the perception with the senses can be recognized
by them as knowledge; this habit is so strong with them. A stanza in Tevaram says, 'O Sages, eager to get over all misery,
worry not about inferences and examples!  Our Light is ever shining forth from within!  With the mind clear, live in God!'

This is direct perception. Will the common people admit it?  They want God to appear in front of them as a bright Being mounted
on a Bull.  Such vision once originated must also end. It is therefore transient.  Tevaram speaks of the Eternal and Ever experienced
Being. This Tevaram takes one directly to the Reality.

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Subramanian.R

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #121 on: April 09, 2013, 04:20:57 PM »
Talks No. 513:

Major Chadwick gain gave his versiffed translation of the mantra for Bhagavan to read.  Sri Bhagavan spoke softly of the
interpretation of the Bhashyakaraka and further explained thus:

To consider Brahmaloka as a region is also admissible. That is what pouranikas say and many other schools also imply it by
expounding krama mukti (liberation by degrees).  But the Upanishads speak of Sadyomukti (immediate liberation) as in Na tasya
prana utkramani; ithiva praleeyante -- the pranas do not rise up; they lose themselves here. So Brahmaloka will be realization of
Brahman (Brahma sakshatkara). It is a state and NOT A REGION.  In the latter case, paramritat must be properly understood. It
is para, universe, amirta, because it persists until the Self is realized.  So that paramritat will mean avyakrita.  The krama mukti
(liberation by degrees) school say that the upasaka goes to the region of his Ishta devata which is Brahmaloka to him. The souls
passing to all other lokas return to be reborn.  But those who have gained the Brahma loka do not.  Moreover those desirous of a
particular loka can by proper methods gain the same. Whereas Brahmaloka cannot be gained so long  as there is any desire left
in the person.  Desirelessness alone will confer the loka on him.  His desirelessness signifies the absence of the incentive for rebirth.

contd.,

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2013, 02:26:22 PM »

Talks No. 513:

contd.,

Sri Bhagavan continued:  The age of Brahma is practically immeasurable.  The presiding deity of the loka is said to have a
definite period of life. When he passes away, his loka also is dissolved.  The inmates are emancipated at the same time,
irrespective of the different nature of individual consciousness in them prior to Self Realization.

The kramakukti school objects to the idea of Sadyomukti (immediate liberation) because the Jnani is supposed to lose body-
consciousness at the same time that ignorance is dispelled but he continues to live in the body.  They ask, 'How does the body
function without the mind?' The answer is somewhat elaborate. 

Knowledge (Jnana) is not incompatible with ignorance (ajnana) because the Self in purity is found to remain along with ignorance
seed (ajnana beeja) in sleep.  But the incompatibility arises only in the waking and dream states. Ajnana has two aspects: avarana
and vikshepa.  Of these, avarana denotes the veil hiding the Truth.  That prevails in sleep.  Multiplicity is activity in different times.
This gives rise to diversify and prevails in waking and dream states (jagrat and svapna).  If it is lifted for a Jnani and so his karana
sarira (causal body) ceases to exist. Vikshepa alone continues for him. Even so, it is not the same  for a Jnani as it is for an
ajnani.  The ajnani has all kinds of vasanas, i.e. kartrtva (doership) and bhokrtva (enjoyership), whereas the Jnani has ceased to be
doer (karta).  Thus only one kind of vasana obtains for him. That too is very weak and does not overpower him, because he is always
aware of the Sat Chit Ananda nature of the Self. The tenuous bhokrtva vasana is the only remnant of the mind left in the Jnani and
he therefore appears to be living in the body.

continued....

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #123 on: April 11, 2013, 05:23:48 PM »

Talks No. 513:

This explanation when applied to the mantra amounts to this: A Jnani has his karana sarira destroyed. The Sthula sarira (gross
body) has no effect on him and is for all practical purposes destroyed too.  The sukshma saria (subtle body) alone remains.  It is
otherwise called ativahika sarira.  It is in this which is held by all persons after the physical body is given up. And when this they
traverse to other lokas until another suitable body is taken.  The Jnani is supposed to move in Brahma loka with this sukshma
sarira.  And that is also dissolved and he passes into final liberation. 

The whole explanation is meant for the onlooker.  The Jnani himself will never raise question. He knows by his experience that he is not
bound by any kind of limitations. 

Devotee: What is this final emancipation?  according to foregoing explanation?

Maharshi: The ativahika or the sukshma sarira correspondds to the pure light which one experiences just after sleep and before the
rise of the ego. It is Cosmic Consciousness. That is the only Light reflected by the Heart.  When the reflection ceases and abides
as the Original Light in the Heart is final emancipation.

contd.,

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #124 on: April 12, 2013, 02:03:30 PM »


Talks No.  513 - continues......

Devotee:  But Yoga Vasishta says that the chitta (mind) of a Jivan Mukta is achala  (non moving).

Maharshi: So it is.  Achala chittam (unchanging mind) is the same as suddha manas (pure mind).  The Jnan's manas is said to be
Suddha manas. The Yoga Vasishta also says that Brahman is no other than the Jnani's mind.  So Brahman is suddha manas only.

Devotee:  Will the description of Brahman as Sat Chit Ananda suit this suddha manas?  For this too will be destroyed in the
final emancipation. 

Maharshi: If Suddha Manas is admitted, the Bliss (Ananda) experienced by the Jnani must also be admitted to be reflected.
This reflection must finally merge into the Original. Therefore the Jivanmukti state is compared to the reflection of a spotless
mirror in another similar mirror.  What will be found in such a reflection? Pure Akasa. Similarly the Jnani's reflected Bliss represents
only true Bliss.

These are only words.  It is enough that a person becomes antarmukhi (inward bent).  The sastras are not needed for an inward
turned mind.  They are meant for the rest.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2013, 01:26:48 PM »
Talks No. 514:

Mr. McIver, a resident devotee, asked Sri Bhagavan if he might go to Switzerland where a Guru was inviting him. 
Sri Bhagavan said:  Some force brought him here and the same is taking him to Europe Let him always remember that
the world is only a projection of the mind and the mind is in the Self. Wherever the body may move the mind must be kept
under control.   The body moves,  but not the Self.  The world is within the Self, that is all.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #126 on: April 14, 2013, 01:22:27 PM »
Talks No. 515:

Devotee:  In the explanation given yesterday, it is aid that the removal of avarana results in the annihilation of the karana sarira.
That is clear.  But how is the gross body considered to fall off too?

Maharshi: The vasanas are of two kinds. Bandha hetu (causing bondage) and bhoga hetu (only giving enjoyment).  The Jnani
has transcended the ego and therefore all the causes of bondage are inoperative.  Bandha hetu is thus at  end and prarabdha
remains as bhoga vasana only.  Therefore it was said that the sukshma sarira alone survives Jnana.  Kaivalya Naveneetam says
that sanchitra karma is at an end simultaneously with the rise of Jnana.  That agami (karma now collecting) is no longer operative
owing to the sense of absence of bondage, and that prarabdha will be exhausted by enjoyment (bhoga) only.  Thus the last one
will end in due course of time and then the gross body falls away with it.

Sarira traya (the three bodies) and Karma traya (the three karmas) are mere phrases meant for the delectation of debaters.
A Jnani is not affected by any of them.

An aspirant instructed to find who he is. If he does so, he will take no interest in discussing such matters, as the above. Find
the Self and rest in Peace.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #127 on: April 15, 2013, 11:19:29 AM »

Talks No. 516.

A question arose if the world is real on unreal, since it is claimed to be both by the advaitins themselves.  Sri Bhagavan said
that is unreal if viewed apart from the Self and real if viewed as the Self.


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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2013, 01:24:44 PM »
Talks No. 517:

There was some reference of two slokas in Yoga Vasishta where spiritism (occultism and black magic)  in melecha desa (foreign
countries) is mentioned. Mr. MacIver said that black magic is more prevalent in the West than is ordinarily known to the observer.
The writer then remembered how Mr. Paul Brunton had once said that he actually feared a woman for her association with black
magic. 

Sri Bhagavan asked if the gentleman had read Devi Kalottaram.  He then said that abhichara prayogam (again using black magic
on people whom one does not like) is condemned there. He also added that by such practices one compasses one's own ruin.
Avidya (iignorance) itself is bad and makes one commit suicide. Why should black magic be also added to it?

Devotee: What is the parikaram (remedy) open to the victim of black magic?

Bhagavan:  Only Bhakti (devotion to God.)

Devotee: Non resistance seems to be the only remedy for all kinds of evil such as slander.

Maharshi: Quite so. If one abuses another or injures him, the remedy does not lie in retort or resistance.  Simply keep quiet.
This quiet will bring peace to the injured but make the offender restless until he is driven to admit his error to the injured party.

This black magic is said to have been used even against the greatest saints in India since time immemorial.  The tapasvins of
Daruka forest used it against Siva Himself.

......

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #129 on: April 17, 2013, 02:32:37 PM »

Talks No. 518:

Mr. V. Gupta , a Telugu Pandit, is on a visit here. Sri Bhagavan said in the course of conversation:  Ahamkritti (the ego) is not
the same as Aham.  The latter is the Supreme Reality, whereas the former is the ego.  It is to be overcome before the Truth
is realized. The Supreme Being is unmanifest and the first sign of manifestation is Aham Sphurana (the light of 'I').  The
Brahadaranyaka Upanishad says Aham nama abhavat (He became 'I' named).  That is the original name of the Reality.

The Pandit asked about the operation of Grace. Is it the mind of he Guru acting on the mind of the disciple or anything different?

Maharshi: The Highest Form of Grace is Silence (mouna).  It is also the highest Upadesa.

Devotee:  Vivekananda has also said that Silence is the loudest form of prayer. 

Maharshi: It is so, for the seeker's silence, Guru's silence is the loudest ujpadesa.  It is also the Grace in its highest form.
All other dikshas (initiations) eg., sparsa, chakshus, are derived from mouna.  They are therefore secondary. Mouna is the
primary form. If the Guru is silent, the seeker's mind gets purified by itself. 

Devotee: Is it proper that one prays to God or Guru when one is afflicted by worldly ills?

Maharshi: Undoubtedly.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #130 on: April 18, 2013, 01:53:04 PM »
Talks No. 519:

Maharshi:  The mahavakyas and their interpretation lead to interminable discussions and keep the minds of the seekers engaged
externally. To turn the mind inward, the man must directly settle down in the 'I'.  Then there is an end to external activities and
perfect Peace prevails.

Later, a passage from the Yoga Vasishta was read out before Sri Bhagavan, indicating by look, and initiation by touch. 

Sri Bhagavan observed:  Dakshinamurti observed silence when the disciples approached Him.  This is the highest form of
initiation. It includes the other forms.  There must be subject-object relationship established in other dikshas.  First the
subject must emanate and then the object.  Unless these two are there how is the one to look at the other or touch him?
Mouna Diksha is the most perfect. It comprises looking, touching and teaching.  It will purify the individual in every way and
establish him in the Reality.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #131 on: April 19, 2013, 01:43:42 PM »
Talks No. 520:

An Australian gentleman (Mr. Lowman) is on a visit here.  He seems to be studying the Hindu system of philosophy.  He
started saying that the believed in Unity, the Jiva is yet in illusion and so on.

Maharshi:  What is the unity you believe in?  How can the Jiva find place in it?

Devotee:  The Unity is the Absolute.

Maharshi:  The Jiva cannot find a place in Unity.

Devotee: But the Jiva has not realized the Absolute and imagines itself separate.

Maharshi: Jiva is separate because it must exist in order to imagine something.

Devotee: But it is unreal.

Maharshi: Anything that is unreal cannot produce effects.  It is like saying that you killed some animal with the horn of a hare.
A  hare does not grow horns. 

Devotee; I see the absurdity.  But I speak from the physical plane.

Maharshi: You say 'I'. Who is that 'I'?  If that is found you can later say whose is the illusion. 

A little later Bhagavan asked:

You say you are in the physical plane now. In which plane are you in dreamless sleep?

Devotee: I think in the physical plane again.

Maharshi: You say 'I think'. That means that you are saying it now when you are awake. Anyway you admit that you exist in
deep sleep. Don't you?

Devotee: Yes. But I did not function then.

Maharshi: So then, you existed in deep sleep. You are the same one who continues to exist.  Are you not?

Devotee: Yes.

Maharshi: With this difference -- that you did not function in your sleep. Rather you are associated wit the thinking faculty
in your waking state and you are disassociated from it in sleep.  Is it not so?

Devotee: Yes. I see it now. But I was not aware of my being in seep.

Maharshi: You say so now.  You do not say so in your sleep. Or do you deny your being (very existence) in sleep?

Devotee: No.

Maharshi: It amounts to this that you exist in both states. The Absolute Existence is the Self. You are also conscious of the
Existence. That Existence is also consciousness (Sat and Chit). That is your real nature.

Devotee: But thinking is necessary for realization.

Maharshi: That thinking is aimed at the elimination of all thinking.

contd.,

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #132 on: April 20, 2013, 12:54:55 PM »

Talks No. 520.

continues....

Devotee: Owing to my ignorance, I do not realize the Absolute Existence Consciousness.

Maharshi:  Who is the 'I'?  Whose is the ignorance!  Answers to these questions will alone suffice to prove that you are already
realized. Is there anyone who denies his own existence?  Or can anyone say that he did not exist in his sleep?  Pure Existence
is thus admitted.  The admission also implies consciousness.  Thus all men are realized. There is no ignorant man at all.

Devotee: Yes. I understand.  But I have a small question to ask.  The state of Realization is one of desirelessness. If a human being
is desireless he ceases to be human.

Maharshi: You admit your existence in sleep, You did not function then.  You were not aware of any gross body.  You did not limit
yourself to this body.  So you could not find anything separate from your Self.

Now in your waking state you continue to be the same Existence with the limitations of the body added. These limitations make
you see the other objects. Hence arises desire. But the state of desirelessness in sleep made you no less happy than now. You
did not feel any want. You did not make yourself miserable by not entertaining desires.  But now you entertain desires because
you are limited to this human frame. Why do you wish to retain these limitations and continue to entertain desire?

Sri Bhagavan continued:  Does the body tell you that it is there?  It is certainly something apart from the body that remains aware.
What is it?

Do you say that it is the 'I', meaning the ego which arises simultaneously with the waking of the individual from sleep?  Be it so.
The body is not sentient.  The Absolute does not speak. The ego does. One does not aspire for liberation in sleep. The aspiration
arises only in the waking state.  The functions of the waking state are those of the ego which is synonymous with the 'I'. Find out
who this 'I' is.  On doing so, and abiding as 'I', all these doubts will be cleared up.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #133 on: April 21, 2013, 01:23:35 PM »
Talks No. 523.

A Pilgrims' special train brought several visitors from Bengal.  One of them said that he had read Mr. Paul Brunton's book
and since then he was anxious to see Sri Bhagavan.  He also asked:  'How shall I overcome my passions?'

Maharshi: Find their root and then it will be easy.  ( Later) What are the passions?  Kama (lust) , Krodha (anger), etc.,
Why do they arise?  Because of likes and dislikes towards the objects seen.  How do the objects project themselves
in your view?  Because of your avidya i.e. ignorance. Ignorance of what?  Of the Self. Thus, if you find the Self and abide
therein there will be no trouble owing to the passions.

(Later) Again, what is the cause of the passions?  Desire to be happy or enjoy pleasure.  Why does the desire for happiness
arise?  Because your nature is happiness itself and it is natural for you that you come into your own.  This happiness is not
found anywhere beside the Self.  Do not look for it elsewhere.  But seek the Self and abide therein. 

Still again, that happiness which is natural is simply re-discovered, so it cannot be lost.  Whereas happiness arising from other
objects are external and thus liable to be lost. Therefore it cannot be permanent and so it is not worth seeking.

Moreover craving for pleasures should not be encouraged.  One cannot put out burning fire, by pouring petrol over it. An
attempt to satisfy your craving for the time being, so that the passion may later be suppressed, is simply foolish.

There are, no doubt, other methods for the suppression of passion.  They are, (1) regulated food, (2) fasting, (3) yoga practice,
(4) medicines.  But their effects are transitory.  The passions reappear  with greater force as soon as the check is removed.  The
only way to overcome them is to eradicate them.  That is done by finding their source as stated above.

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Re: Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
« Reply #134 on: April 22, 2013, 02:24:25 PM »

Talks No. 524:

Another pilgrim asked:  'I am a man with a family.  Is it possible for those in a family to get release, and if so, how?

Maharshi:  Now, what is family?  Whose family is it?  If the answers to these questions are found the other questions
solve themselves. 

Tell me: Are you in the family, or is the family in you?

The visitor did not answer.  Then Sri Bhagavan's answer was continued:  Who are you?  You include three aspects of life,
namely, the waking, the dream, and the sleep states.  You were not aware of the family and their ties in your deep sleep
and so these questions did not arise then.  But now you are aware of the family and their ties and therefore you seek release.
But you are the same person throughout.

Devotee:  Because I now feel that I am in the family it is right that I should seek release.

Maharshi: You are right. But consider and say: Are you in the family or is the family in you?

Another visitor interposed: What is family? 

Maharshi: That's it. It must be known. 

Devotee: There is my wife and there are also my children.  They are dependent on me.  That is the family.

Maharshi: Do the members of the family bind your mind?  Or do you bind yourself to them?  Do they come and say to you:
'We form your family.  Be with us'?  Or do you consider them as your family and that you are bound to them?

Devotee: I consider them as my family and feel bound to them.

Maharshi:  Quite so.  Because you think that so-and-so is your wife and so-and-so are your children you also think that you
are bound to them.  You can entertain these thoughts or relinquish them.  The former is bondage and the latter is release.

Devotee: It is not clear to me.

Maharshi: You must exist in order that you may think.  You may think these thoughts or other thoughts.  The thoughts change
but not you.  Let go the passing thoughts and hold on to the unchanging Self. The thoughts form your bondage.  If they are given
up, there is release.  The bondage is not external.  So no external remedy need be sought for release.  It is within your competence
to think and thus to get bound or to cease thinking and thus be free. 

Devotee: But it is not easy to remain without thinking.

Maharshi:  You need not cease thinking.  Only thinking of the root of the thoughts.  Seek it and find it. The Self shines by itself.
When that is found the thoughts cease of their own accord.  That is freedom from bondage.

Devotee:  Yes. I understand it now. I have learnt it now.  Is a Guru necessary? 

Maharshi: So long as you consider yourself as an individual, a Guru is necessary to show to you that you are not bound by
limitations and that your nature is to be free from limitations.

*****

Arunachala Siva.