Author Topic: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.  (Read 2754 times)

Subramanian.R

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Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« on: November 30, 2012, 12:39:32 PM »
In an answer to a question by long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan said:


Every body complains of the restlessness of mind. Let the mind be found out and then they will know. True when a sits down to meditate
thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is a bundle of thoughts The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts, is unsuccessful.
It can be done by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed.

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2012, 12:52:40 PM »
In an answer to a question by long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan said:


Every body complains of the restlessness of mind. Let the mind be found out and then they will know. True when a sits down to meditate
thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is a bundle of thoughts The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts, is unsuccessful.
It can be done by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

I found Chanting of Bhawgwan's Arunachala Akshara Mana Malai to be very effective and potent as as well as the Maha Mantra "Arunachala Siva Arunachala Siva "

Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2012, 09:52:02 AM »
In an answer to a question by long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan said:

Every body complains of the restlessness of mind. Let the mind be found out and then they will know. True when a sits down to meditate
thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is a bundle of thoughts The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts, is unsuccessful.
It can be done by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed.

One need not necessarily resort to just shlokas and prayers alone. A nice walk with the nature, going to a temple, going to a very serene place, etc... all calm the mind very well.

The thing is to not become limited only by shlokas and meditation alone, sometimes, we may even not be interested or even a pinch of effort may be a big strain, then tuning in with nature, is excellent aid.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2012, 01:03:57 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan also went for stroll on the Hill. But sometimes, walking also becomes a routine thing and may not help
to control the thoughts. I have seen many people walking with thoughts in mind and dashing with others or hitting a stone
on the ground.

Arunachala Siva.


Jewell

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2012, 05:18:56 PM »
In an answer to a question by long resident attendant, Sri Bhagavan said:


Every body complains of the restlessness of mind. Let the mind be found out and then they will know. True when a sits down to meditate
thoughts rush up by dozens. The mind is a bundle of thoughts The attempt to push through the barrage of thoughts, is unsuccessful.
It can be done by any means abide in the Self it is good. For those who are unable to do so, chanting or meditation is prescribed.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Yes,it is very true that every trying to fight with thoughts is lost battle. When i think about it,it is logical too. Thoughts are waves in consciousness,they will always be there,and our brain will always catch all sorts of thoughts. Our only remedy is to rise ourselvs beyond thoughts,coz,anyway,we are already beyond them.
I have noticed that when i fight with them,and try to suppress them,they emerge even stronger. For instance,when i have sudenly rush of unwanted thoughts,and become aware of them,and then become angry and try not to think them,i only supress them. That is not good. It is a fight.
But,when i see them,and i am indifferent,not bothering,like,ok,i am thinking that,lets see,they go. It is because i use only awareness,perception,not judging,not bothering. They get burned that way. Sure,they emerge again,now and then,but not so stronger,and by using awareness,they emerge less and less. Or better to say,they cant afect me that much.

We are not the thoughts,we are witness of them. And when we concentrate on that witness itself,that perception,seeing,it is a selfinquiry.

Chanting is best help for that,but that also must not to become rutine. Our thoughts should be directed towards that what we chant. Then it is most effective.

Well,i believe,and in my case,it is best not to interfere in thoughts. They come and go,and we are just observers. It is a hard process too,and ask for great deal of attention,it is a tiring also,but with practice it become a habbit. Like anything else.

And,in my case also,i find pranayama,or simple breathing exercize,to be very affective for calming the mind. But,still,indifference to them,and awareness,are for me,best tool. Coz,thoughts and what we are,are something totaly not depending one on another,and we dont need mind without thoughts,but mind beyond thoughts,which can go paralely with one another. Means,we can have the thoughts,but do self inquiry anyway. Like we concentrate on chanting,thats way we can concentrate on the one who is the witness of chanting too. Thats way,thoughts are happening,things are happening,but we are aware of everything. For me,thats most powerful and best way.

With love and prayers,

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2012, 05:26:58 PM »
Dear Jewell,

Thoughts can be totally conquered only by retaining the mind in the Self. Japa, pranayama, mantra chanting are only secondary
to divert the mind from thoughts.

Arunachala Siva.

Jewell

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2012, 05:38:20 PM »
Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

Thoughts cannot be 'conqured'. What we are fighting against,if they are not our real self? There is no question of conquering anything,but rising and standing away from them. We can do it any time,coz the proof of it is exactly that that You Know that You think. Only,the truth is,we dont think,thoughts are just there.

We only need to stop the owning the thoughts,not to destroy the thoughts. When we stop owning them,just watching,we are already beyond them. What is the matter then how many thoughts arise?!

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2012, 05:43:29 PM »
Dear Jewell,

You said - rising and standing away from them. I said - keep the mind in the Self,

There is no difference.

Arunachala Siva.   

Nagaraj

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2012, 05:56:07 PM »
Dear Sir,

:) i just noticed, you have just started posting new topics. That is wonderful :)

My view on Thoughts and conquest of thoughts are simple, basically, one has to be mindful and strive not to be mechanical. Specially for the ones that have had connection with Bhagavan Ramana, will develop this wonderful gift of contemplation about the 'I' Thought, Self Enquiry.

The detachment from thoughts varies from person to person, depending on the exact proportion of sincere efforts we put towards our sAdhanA. When one is found troubled with thoughts, one has to enquire the source of the I thought, or one has to realise that one is just the observer and not the thoughts themselves (see http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7234.msg37015#msg37015) Or become conscious of the Seer and abide as the Seer and by discerning that the Seer is independent of the Seen (in this case - thoughts)

And yes just walking blindly will be of no use, just throwing stones, It is all about mindfulness, being ever alert and alive and conscious! Basically, what is important is not to get trapped in 'inaction' and strive to discern that one is unaffected by thoughts.

It is the emergence of thoughts that cause the disturbance, hence as Bhagavan says, trace the source of the emergence, and one will become free of thoughts.

But one has to remember, that the the results are exactly proportional to ones effort, sincerity, and mindfulness. Some of them can instantly detach from thoughts due to prolonged contemplation and discernment. It varies from person to person

« Last Edit: December 01, 2012, 06:02:09 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2012, 06:06:56 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Mindfulness is essential. Even chanting, japa, mantra upasana - all need mindfulness.

Regarding  your other observation, It is Mahadeepam effect!  On Mahadeepam evening, I thought I should post new
topics. It is Arunachala's Wish. It will continue till Arunachala Ramana says: Stop!.

Arunachala Siva.   

Jewell

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2012, 06:14:33 PM »
Dear Jewell,

You said - rising and standing away from them. I said - keep the mind in the Self,

There is no difference.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Sri Subramanian sir,

I agree on that,there is no difference.

But i wanted to convey that "conquering" the thoughts is not good approach. We cannot conquere something which is by its nature inside of manifestation,and insures continuing of manifestation in some way,with consciousness itself. Thoughts will always be there,only our indetification with them wont. And thats only matters. Mind free state means exactly that,state where we are only observers,which is our nature. Not mind without thoughts what so ever. That mind and the former mind doasnt have anything with each other. They are not "dependent" one on another,in that way,that we need a blank mind to realise itself.
In that case,person in comma,or little child would be realised immidately.

And remaining in the Self doasnt mean there is no thoughts,but we are not affected with them and we watch all show. We are now also remaining in the self.isnt? Bhagavan said it. Where is the difference then? Only in that,we indetifying with thoughts. Non indetification doasn mean destroying thoughts.

With love and prayers,

Nagaraj

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2012, 06:15:11 PM »
Dear Sir,

I truly believe these three quotes from Bhagavan are enough and contains entire vEdAntA

iruntha padiye iru enRAn  - Be what you are.
guru aruL cheluthum vazhikke chel enRAn - Go the way in which the grace of Guru directs you to.
ninnishtam ennishtam - Your wish is my wish

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2012, 06:31:52 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. These golden words of Sri Bhagavan have been said in different fashions in the composition IRaipaNi niRRal, in
Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai.

1. NinRa nilaikke nil enRAn.

2. kidantha padikke kida enRAn.

3. iRaivan aruL cheluthumbadikke chelkenRAn.

4. iRaivan aruL nadthum padikke nadakka enRAn.

5. iRaivan aruL iyakkum padikke iyngu enRAn.

6. iRaivan aruL pokkum padikke pohenRAn.

7. nAdhan aruL koottum padikke koodenRAn.

8. iRaivan aruL seyyum padikke chei enRAn

9. iRaivan aruL cherkum padikke chekenRAn.

10. iuntha padikke iru enRAn.


Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Thoughts and conquest of thoughts.
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2012, 07:38:35 PM »
Dear Sir, Friends,

If any man thirst, let him
come unto me, and drink.


(John)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta