Author Topic: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas  (Read 2661 times)

atmavichar100

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Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« on: November 23, 2012, 12:43:47 PM »
It was a summer evening, and we were all sitting outside in the open space by the well. Suddenly one of the visitors started weeping bitterly.

'I am a horrible sinner. For a long time I have been coming to you, but there is no change in me. Can I become pure at last? How long am I to wait? When I am here near you, I am good for a time. But when I leave this place, I become a beast again. You cann
ot imagine how bad I can be -- hardly a human being. Am I to remain a sinner forever?'

'Why do you come to me? What have I to do with you?' demanded Bhagavan. 'What is there between us that you should come here and weep and cry in front of me?'

The man started moaning and crying even more, as if his heart were breaking.

'All my hopes of salvation are gone. You were my last refuge and you say you have nothing to do with me! To whom shall I turn now? What am I to do? To whom am I to go?'

Bhagavan watched him for some time and said, 'Am I your Guru that I should be responsible for your salvation? Have I ever said that I am your Master?'

'If you are not my Master, then who is? And who are you, if not my Master? You are my Guru. You are my guardian angel. You must take pity me and release me from my sins!'

He started sobbing and crying again.

We all sat silent, overcome with pity. Only Bhagavan looked alert and matter-of-fact.

'If I am your Guru, what are my fees? Surely you should pay me for my services.'

'But you won't take anything,' cried the visitor. 'What can I give you?'

'Did I ever say that I don't take anything? And did you ever ask me what you can give me?'

'If you would take, then ask me. There is nothing I would not give you.'

'All right. Now I am asking. Give me. What will you give me?'

'Take anything. Everything I have is yours.'

'Then give me all the good you have done in this world.'

'What good could I have done? I have not a single virtue to my credit.'

'You have promised to give. Now give. Don't talk of your credit. Just give away all the good you have done in your past.'

'Yes, I shall give. But how does one give? Tell me how the giving is done and I shall give.'

'Say like this: "All the good I have done in the past I am giving away entirely to my Guru. Henceforth I have no merit from it nor have I any concern with it." Say it with your whole heart.'

'All right, Swami. "I am giving away to you all the good I have done so far, if I have done any, and all its good effects. I am giving it to you gladly, for you are my Master and you are asking me to give it all away to you.'

'But this is not enough,' said Bhagavan sternly.

'I gave you all I have and all you asked me to give. I have nothing more to give.'

'No, you have. Give me all your sins.'

The man looked wildly at Bhagavan, terror stricken.

'You do not know, Swami, what you are asking for. If you knew, you would not ask me. If you take over my sins, your body will rot and burn. You do not know me, you do not know my sins. Please do not ask me for my sins.'

He wept bitterly.

'I shall look after myself. Don't you worry about me,' said Bhagavan. 'All I want from you is your sins.'

For a long time the bargain would not go through. The man refused to part with his sins. But Bhagavan was adamant.

'Either give me your sins along with your merits, or keep both and don't think of me as your Master."

In the end the visitor's scruples broke down and he declared, 'Whatever sins I have done, they are no longer mine. All of them and their results, too, belong to Ramana.'

Bhagavan seemed to be satisfied. 'From now on there is no good nor bad in you. You are just pure. Go and do nothing, either good or bad. Remain yourself. Remain what you are.'


A great peace fell over the man and over us all. No one knows what happened to the fortunate visitor, for he was never seen in the ashram again. He might have had no further need to come.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 01:10:39 PM »
A shiver went thru me reading this. Thanks
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 01:16:01 PM »
An Asramam inmate told me: No one can take other's papas and punyas. Sri Bhagavan had told this to the questioner so that he
would be at peace and Sri Bhagavan's assurance that he had cleaned up the slate made him to keep away from papas.

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 03:27:54 PM »
An Asramam inmate told me: No one can take other's papas and punyas. Sri Bhagavan had told this to the questioner so that he
would be at peace and Sri Bhagavan's assurance that he had cleaned up the slate made him to keep away from papas.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramaniam Sir

Bhagwan's role here in taking that person's punya and papas is purely psychological . But yet the fact it helped relive the other person's feeling of guilt is what matters .
In Christianity there is this concept of confession in the Church to relieve ourself of our Guilt .
In Sanathana Dharma we have the concept of relieving our sins by taking bath in Ganges or Holy river .That is again purely psychological .
 Why go so far , you can go to your local temple ,stand before the deity and confess to it in silence your omissions and commissions and feel a big emotional relief .
Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

ksksat27

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2013, 06:39:58 PM »
An Asramam inmate told me: No one can take other's papas and punyas. Sri Bhagavan had told this to the questioner so that he
would be at peace and Sri Bhagavan's assurance that he had cleaned up the slate made him to keep away from papas.

Arunachala Siva.

Dear Sir

I dont think that asramam inmate who told you the above is correct even to the slightest.

Why I am saying this very assured is as below:

Beings like Bhagavan Ramana are very rare like Sukha Brahma Maharishi.   They are fully qualified Brahma Jnanis always abiding in Sahaja Samadhi.

From that state,  whatever words come out is utterly true and truth only.  It cannot go other way.

That is the first point.  That is why one must be very careful with such great jnanis.

The words have an authority to override any existing cosmic rules as such and in all of the three worlds,  no one can dare ask or act against such words of a jnani.

This authority is not based out of ego or the jnani is interested in this great authority of his words. But neverthless it comes spontaneously from Atma itself.

We have a past similar instance.  When Rama declares his dharma of protecting the surrendered,  he is challenging on the strength of his Vil and Sol (Vil means Arrow and Sol means word) even against the Trimurthis.

The same power comes to the fully chaste great Women.

These things have to be taken literally.  They are not meant for some psychological relief as some people think.  The Christian concept I dont know but this much I am sure.

Whatever words coming out of Bhagavan are necessarily like vedas.  There is no second thought.

In this case, the fortunate visitor ofcourse had a choice to either be in neutral state or start his round of punya and papa all over again.  But the fact remains the same --  sins washed away until now are washed away.  He is really fortuante in every sense of the term.

Last but not least,  we must understand that Bhagavan Ramana will never be interested in some emotional relief of a person.  No , he does not care.  As a jnani ,  whatever sparks inside his cosmic body will come out,  he will not hesitate and sugar coat things like we human beings.


Hari

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2013, 12:13:02 AM »
I agree with Krishna. To say that this is just psychological is very very wrong. This is God's work. Was Bhagavan's liberation due to Arunachala's Grace or was it just 'psychological' phenomena?
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2013, 07:37:53 AM »
Dear Krishnan,

Sri Bhagavan has in fact said this to one of the devotees.  Only a Brahmajnani can remove the sins and punyas of a
person who is ardently devoted to Him.

In Srimad Bhagavatam Sri Krishna says Prahlada, when the latter asked whether his father Hiranyakasipu's sins would
be cleared, Sri Krishna says that his (Hiranyakasipu's) sins would be cleaned up, though, he had hated Him but was
constantly remembering Him, though out of fear.

Arunachala Siva.       

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2013, 09:07:38 AM »
Friends,
Tiruppavai verse 22


அம் கண் மா ஞாலத்து அரசர் அபிமான
பங்கமாய் வந்து நின் பள்ளிக் கட்டிற் கீழே
சங்கம் இருப்பார் போல் வந்து தலைப்பெய்தோம்
கிங்கிணி வாய்ச் செய்த தாமரைப் பூப் போலே
செங்கண் சிறுச் சிறிதே எம்மேல் விழியாவோ
திங்களும் ஆதித்தனும் எழுந்தாற் போல்
அம் கண் இரண்டும் கொண்டு எங்கள் மேல் நோக்குதியேல்
எங்கள் மேல் சாபம் இழிந்தேலோர் எம்பாவாய்






ksksat27

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Re: Bhagwan relieving a person of his Punya and Papas
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 06:09:13 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Sri Bhagavan has in fact said this to one of the devotees.  Only a Brahmajnani can remove the sins and punyas of a
person who is ardently devoted to Him.

In Srimad Bhagavatam Sri Krishna says Prahlada, when the latter asked whether his father Hiranyakasipu's sins would
be cleared, Sri Krishna says that his (Hiranyakasipu's) sins would be cleaned up, though, he had hated Him but was
constantly remembering Him, though out of fear.

Arunachala Siva.       

Dear Sir

Your earlier comment seemd to endorse what the ashramite told you about psychological effect.

Even atmavichar sir joined you telling that it is all only for emotional burden removal (which implies the unfortuante sinner even after getting an assurance from Maharishee has to undergo physical suffering in next lives)

So I wrote the above.

Bottom line is this sir:  these are deep contemplative topics that shows what we really understand about Maharishee and his way of things.

If we reduce him to just a counselling sort of personality ,  then there is a vast scheme of things we really miss.